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mathmanican

Never Over Pressurize Bead and Bypass Pumps - Along with a 10kg/s single-tuner Crude to NG boiler (The Spiral Boiler)

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mathmanican    3256

I'm back with some more toys. 

  1. A single-liquid bead pump that will never over pressurize.
  2. A bypass pump that will never overpressurize (and works faster)
  3. A 10kg/s, single aquatuner, crude to natural gas boiler that could handle even more (yep @suxkar you can do this with one aquatuner, and even have extra heat and cooling). 

All three are in this one picture. 

image.thumb.png.869126e09fa080cb06ad3250965cd558.png

Spoiler

The second mesh tile heading down is not needed. The pump could actually do a better job at heat transfer if I replaced it with a liquid vent, and added the appropriate missing conductive power bridge that you see missing below. I only realized that I forgot to fix this issue after I started posting. 

image.png.d539a20359b9971df602bb1bac702f94.png

image.png.ce16869355b06ae96138c04021504a76.png

If the supercoolant cannot deposit enough cooling, then it runs through a heating pooling on the left before going back into the tuner. The turbine uses a split design, as I was originally going to use it to both cool the SG and the boiler room. Turns out that isn't needed, so a redesign is in order. Note however that the steam turbine is cooled by the metal tile under the middle. That metal tile is connected to the cooling plate via a single conveyor bridge, and even while running it stays around -170C or below. 

image.png.e1468f391914b256d69cb8c2fa68ee16.png

This loop prevents the boiler room from getting too hot (over 800C is what I have it set at for now). 

image.png.3e73b0645625eb324d58d420194c9dee.png

I ended up not using the door in the upper right.  It can be deleted. If the boiler room gets too cold, the pump can be turned off. 

image.png.09fb8669a1e8641296ad2574bc380712.png

I originally only had one row of space for the methane to flow on the bottom layer.  However, this lead to the SG freezing BEFORE it hit the cooling plate.  So I made the methane drop a level , and turn to gas, before it can interact with the conveyors bridges. 

Note the conveyors by the steam turbine. The up/down conveyor bridge keeps the turbine completely cooled. The left right conveyor bridge equalizes the two chambers temps. The pressure sensor in the right chamber closes the liquid vent so that excess liquid always gets put in the left most chamber. My biggest worry with this build is steam deletion, as without any steam, we can't cool the boiler room. 

If you want to examine the parts in more detail, feel free to use this save.

Lucky Colony.sav

 

The counters kept track of how many times certain things occurred over 50 cycles. 

  • (643) Each time the supercoolant that freezes the SG returns, if it could not shed enough cold then it has to be heated up. The liquid tepidizer fired 643 times, every time the pool got colder than -167C. This means there is actually more cooling power than is being used, and the tepidizer has to inject heat to make sure the aquatuner runs at 100% capacity to boil oil. This could be replaced with a regular water buffer zone, and a liquid storage tank, but it was easy to test as is. 
  • (76) If the aquatuner gets too hot (a thermosensor is set at 800C), then a loop of hydrogen on a 60 sec buffer  takes the extra heat from the boiler room to the steam turbine. An alternate approach could be to inject more oil, as the boiler plate could handle it. 
  • (1) If the aquatuner gets too cold, then the oil is shut off. This never happened. 

Here is a single-liquid bead pump.

image.png.7215451b2fd70d9c0f52d237de784531.png

The flow rate can be increased to any amount you want (up to max flow which is 250kg/s for crude), by adding more vents to the right. The spiral boiler can't handle 250kg/s, but the bead pump will allow it.  The pump must drop liquid off the left side (see here for more details).  The airflow tiles on the left are needed to force the air that bubbles up to the left. Without a place for the air to go, the pump still beads, but about half the liquid also drips to the bottom (ruining the entire bead pump boiler). You can see another option by @TripleM999 here. I chose this configuration as it allowed me even more thermal contact with the exiting NG. 

Here is an example of a bypass pump that will never over pressurize. 

image.png.7a012362a7dc2c34033dd0a5ec642a6f.png

Rather than releasing liquid directly above the crude, release the liquid to the side. This lets you keep a small amount of liquid over the vent, while the tile above the crude still does the bypass swapping with huge amounts.  The current pressure in this room is almost 7000kg, and rising. The pump also works a tad faster, as you get to swap elements every other tick, instead of once every 5 ticks.  Or, you can set the valve really low and get swapping to happen once every 10 seconds.  You can essentially choose how fast you want the flow to happen, provided you pay attention to single-layer liquid flow rules.  

Enjoy.  I'm currently wanting to improve the heat exchange between NG and incoming crude oil, and figure bubbling the NG through crude would be a fun way to do it. I'll share a screenshot when it's done. I also think a redesign of the entire middle region is in order, to improve aesthetics an remove unused pieces.

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nakomaru    1649

The game's changed again. Amazing work. Both new pump variants are incredibly powerful and convenient. The most brilliant ideas always seem so obvious in hindsight.

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TripleM999    235

NG boiler exploitation optimization is such fun, as there are so many different mechanics at play. You never know, where to begin, but at the same time where it will end.

7 hours ago, mathmanican said:

Here is a single-liquid bead pump.

image.png.7215451b2fd70d9c0f52d237de784531.png

The flow rate can be increased to any amount you want (up to max flow which is 250kg/s for crude), by adding more vents to the right. The spiral boiler can't handle 250kg/s, but the bead pump will allow it.  The pump must drop liquid off the left side (see here for more details).  The airflow tiles on the left are needed to force the air that bubbles up to the left. Without a place for the air to go, the pump still beads, but about half the liquid also drips to the bottom (ruining the entire bead pump boiler). You can see another option by @TripleM999 here. I chose this configuration as it allowed me even more thermal contact with the exiting NG. 

Btw. this will overpressure, if it has a chance to. Had this from time to time, when running my concept car with 70kg. Sometimes the bead collapses, and then the bead forming vent will overpressure. I maybe have a solution for this, i will test, but as for now it is just a pity, that crude has the highest density, and will flush away any other liquid, else your non-overpressurizing vent would be a great solution, as it is also great at forming uniform beads.

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mathmanican    3256
46 minutes ago, TripleM999 said:

Sometimes the bead collapses, and then the bead forming vent will overpressure.

Have you tried a solid door and a pressure sensor below it to detect this? The mesh tile wont be needed anymore. 

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TripleM999    235
33 minutes ago, mathmanican said:

Have you tried a solid door and a pressure sensor below it to detect this? The mesh tile wont be needed anymore. 

I'm scared, you are reading my mind, although i thought about placing the sensor above, with a buffer gate. When a bead is formed, there should be some hydro pressure above the door at some ticks, same, when you release liquid to form the bead... so long as there is pressure from time to time, the door will be green. when the liquid is dripping down, there should be no such pressure buildup, so after 1 or 2 sec, close the door for liquid buildup.

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mathmanican    3256
8 minutes ago, TripleM999 said:

I'm scared, you are reading my mind,

Do you mean like this. 

image.png.4b4c05b68ca37bf6d600c0a4645f096b.png

I just built it, got on to post it, and saw your reply. :) The sensor is set to 0kg.  If the bead ever stops being there, the door instantly closes, and then reopens. :) No starter vent needed. The air tile below the vent can (and should) swap back to insulation. 

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TripleM999    235
2 minutes ago, mathmanican said:

Do you mean like this. 

image.png.4b4c05b68ca37bf6d600c0a4645f096b.png

I just built it, got on to post it, and saw your reply. :) The sensor is set to 0kg.  If the bead ever stops being there, the door instantly closes, and then reopens. :) No starter vent needed. The air tile below the vent can (and should) swap back to insulation. 

Exactly. But physics is, as physics is. The wheel has to be round, else it would not work. :grin:

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mathmanican    3256

The door approach has a nice side advantage. In the event of  a crude oil shortage, the boiler region will not be sucked to vacuum. :) I swapped to this, and will probably never go back. 

There is one other possible issue that may need planning around. In the unlikely event that petro forms over the vent, it can get trapped. In that case, all the crude instantly moves sideways.  It hasn't happen in over 100 cycles with this current version, but something like it happened with a past version. Adding one tile above the vent, so that any petro that forms can move up, should stop this. With the extra space I have in the middle of my redesigned version, I'm adding this fail safe in.

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TripleM999    235

Btw. nice riddance of the liquid pump for the methane. This disturbed me so much at the various approaches to the NG boiler. ;)

 

34 minutes ago, mathmanican said:

Do you mean like this. 

image.png.4b4c05b68ca37bf6d600c0a4645f096b.png

I just built it, got on to post it, and saw your reply. :) The sensor is set to 0kg.  If the bead ever stops being there, the door instantly closes, and then reopens. :) No starter vent needed. The air tile below the vent can (and should) swap back to insulation. 

This looks so magically, when viewed in action... the pumping action...

BeadDoor.png.deb5480faf22cf88abcb81028a766d86.png

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mathmanican    3256
31 minutes ago, TripleM999 said:

Btw. nice riddance of the liquid pump for the methane. This disturbed me so much

I got the inspiration from your various builds. Thanks for sharing them. 

BTW, I decided to reenable the door on the right side of the steam chamber.  Basically, the SG at the contact plate is in the 170s, which means any heat that bleeds through to the steam turbine will get deleted and only 1/10th will be exhausted through the turbine itself.  However, the turbine is cooled by the same supercoolant that freezes the methane, so this nets me 90% savings in cooling potential. The liquid tepidizer has to fire more often, but the turbine generates way more power than the tepidizer uses, so it's a win in pretty much every way (except perhaps the incoming crude now has a slightly lower input temp as the NG leaving is slightly colder.  I want to see if I can get this thing to boil 20kg/s +, and need more cooling potential without another aquatuner, and the steam turbine amplifies the cooling potential. More boiling basically just requires a little longer shaft.

A new problem emerged.  The cooling is now too good. The methane does not want to return to gas form. I was worried about this with the original build, but never had the issue.  Now it just builds. Nothing a tepidizer can't fix though. The last thing you want is the SG above this room to freeze while in transfer (had that happen yesterday). So you want methane gas transfer on the conveyors (the left most conveyor just interacts with tiny beads of methane liquid, not an issue). 

image.png.f47bba539f9156f797c488ddaeb0aba8.png

I'm pretty sure now that I have enough cooling potential to crank up the volume by quite a bit.  Fun times. 

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mathmanican    3256

So, with one port of a steam turbine open to 600+C temps, and a second port open on another side sucking in mg of 100C steam, You can actually use the inside of a steam turbine as your cooking plate. The turbine can run an aquatuner full time and still generate heat. The resulting supercoolant can not only freeze the cooling plate, but also leverage your cooling along the SG loop. I will probably have to use two different loops as I don't want to freeze things along the SG loop, but with this in tow, I'm going to try to 1/4th the size of this build. I'll probably fail, but might as well try. 

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Crapgame    18

Can we possibly get a save game?  I'm a hands-on learner.

When I have ONI on one monitor and then this thread in another I will finally understand what you're explaining. 

 

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mathmanican    3256
37 minutes ago, Crapgame said:

Can we possibly get a save game?

The save game is already in the original post.  Just open the spoiler under the first picture to see all the overlays and the save.

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mathmanican    3256
3 minutes ago, psusi said:

oil in the NG

The NG leaves the contraption at a higher temp than the input oil. So the NG preheats the oil some (not a ton, but adding 50C to the incoming crude is not negligible).

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psusi    259
18 hours ago, mathmanican said:

The NG leaves the contraption at a higher temp than the input oil. So the NG preheats the oil some (not a ton, but adding 50C to the incoming crude is not negligible).

Ahh, that's the other thing I was just wondering: are you not using the sour gas to heat up the oil first before dropping it onto the hot plate?  Going from 150 C to 600 C is going to take a lot of heat out of the hot plate.  Don't you want to let it get heated up by the sour gas to nearly 600 C before dripping onto the hot plate?  But then you have to deal with somehow not letting it change to petrol in the pipe.  I was thinking of maybe dripping the oil onto a layer of insulated tile and letting it flow to the right, while a layer of sour gas flows to the left above it.

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Zarquan    988
1 hour ago, psusi said:

Ahh, that's the other thing I was just wondering: are you not using the sour gas to heat up the oil first before dropping it onto the hot plate?  Going from 150 C to 600 C is going to take a lot of heat out of the hot plate.  Don't you want to let it get heated up by the sour gas to nearly 600 C before dripping onto the hot plate?  But then you have to deal with somehow not letting it change to petrol in the pipe.  I was thinking of maybe dripping the oil onto a layer of insulated tile and letting it flow to the right, while a layer of sour gas flows to the left above it.

The bead pump where the crude oil is fed in operates as a counter-flow heat exchanger.  Without such a heat exchanger there is no way his single aquatuner could boil that much crude oil.  I believe the OSHA hater boiler was the first to use this approach.

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mathmanican    3256
1 hour ago, psusi said:

are you not using the sour gas to heat up the oil first before dropping it onto the hot plate?

I'm confused by your post, as my reply specifically contradicts this. 

19 hours ago, mathmanican said:

the NG preheats the oil some

It comes from outside the room at 77C. The NG preheats the oil to 150C....  In the end, as @Zarquan said above, this is basically a mute point, as the bead pump heat exchanger works just fine with 77C oil or 150C oil.  I could maybe remove 1 or two tiles of height if I started with hotter oil.  Just add more height the boiler tube and you can cook more oil without adding another aquatuner.  The right most counter shows that I'm currently generating more heat than is needed, as it only fires if the cooking room gets too hot. 

39 minutes ago, Zarquan said:

I believe the OSHA hater boiler was the first to use this approach.

It was, and I have been wrapped up in the other threads so much that I negelected to add a link to that here.  Thanks @NurdRage for that awesome post (if you ever log back in again). It deserves some more vertical space, so here is a non-spoilered link. 

 

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psusi    259

I missed the fact that the oil is exchanging heat with the hot sour gas as they move past each other in the beat pump.  So how much has the sour gas cooled down by the time it exits the bead pump?

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mathmanican    3256
2 hours ago, psusi said:

how much has the sour gas cooled down by the time it exits the bead pump?

Around 200-300C (fluctuates a bunch). The NG then takes the rest of this heat from the sour gas, and feeds it to the crude.  As the NG passes through the supercoolant bypass pump, it takes away the last  bit of heat, and then feeds it to the oil. 

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mathmanican    3256

@Zarquan. If I am reading the following threads correctly, then OSHA hater SG boilers are just a massive exploitation of this bug. And you actually first made a passing suggestion about bead pump SG boilers in these threads which @NurdRagefollowed. 

Sorry I missed all this crazy stuff back in December.

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Zarquan    988
22 minutes ago, mathmanican said:

@Zarquan. If I am reading the following threads correctly, then OSHA hater SG boilers are just a massive exploitation of this bug. And you actually first made a passing suggestion about bead pump SG boilers in these threads which @NurdRagefollowed. 

Sorry I missed all this crazy stuff back in December.

I don't think that the OSHA hater takes advantage of this bug.  To take advantage, you have to be pretty precise with how the flaking happens.  I don't think the beads are big enough to cause the bug, as they have to be greater than 5 kg (not equal to, specifically greater than).  Additionally, the mass of the sour gas has to be great enough to cause the bug to happen.  Since the valves are set to 5000 g/s, they shouldn't boil.  Regardless, I should investigate.  It would add to my original bug report.  (Of course, not that there is anything wrong with using a bug that is this hard to avoid.)

Also, on that turbine picture, I could have powered so many more turbines with that bug.  It regularly shuts down the boiling process because the steam room gets too hot.  Maybe I should showcase a better setup.

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mathmanican    3256
3 minutes ago, Zarquan said:

Maybe I should showcase a better setup

I look forward to seeing it.

27 minutes ago, Zarquan said:

don't think that the OSHA hater takes advantage of this bug.

You are probably right. They just use the greater SHC in SG and then deposit and store the extra energy in buildings.

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