Szczuku

Dst needs either new mechanics or an overhaul of the old ones

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Szczuku    12405
29 minutes ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

(snip)

Well to be fair aside of Antlion's punishement the Survival spectrum hasn't received anything new in the past 2 years (I think). Tho tbh that's up for a discussion on its own 

I can't stress it enough how much I believe adding progression with RNG would benefit the game. I probably should've said that in the op but oh well. That's a topic for another thread :wink:

Also...

Adding something like more hp for shadow creatures after being insane too long wouldn't really fix the issue. People would simply jump in and out of insanity to reset the timer. While my idea discourages being insane/low on sanity overall

Edited by Szczuku
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Charlie Dark    3409
22 minutes ago, Szczuku said:

progression with RNG

Please NO RNG, I like that the game is "risk and gain reward" I would hate it if major gameplay mechanics became RNG based.

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GenomeSquirrel    807
43 minutes ago, Hornete said:

Really? I've always seen boats, fishing and what not as an early game thing.

 

1 hour ago, Hornete said:

Yeah! It's really crazy resource sink to build a boat! To make a boat like this, along with a fishing rod and spinnerbaitsimage.thumb.png.c4f98dfb489bc419dada50ddb52584bd.png

It would require

        -102 logs
        -60 rocks
        -30 grass
        -22 silk
        -6 gold
        -6 charcoal
        -1 boneshard
        -1 gear
       -2 driftwood(One for tackle, one for bobber)
         - Mushrooms of all kinds for all the spinnerbaits(But I usually get away with only getting red caps and green caps for their respective baits)
        -Beefalo Wool( For spinnerbaits, but you can just use the regular flyer spoon baits

How early do you usually have these built?

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x0-VERSUS-1y    5181
3 minutes ago, Szczuku said:

discourages being insane/low on sanity overall

I don't think this should be the route DST goes on. You get a problem - low sanity - and 2 ways to solve it: 1) rise it back up; or 2) deal via fighting with the enemies presented by this state. And said enemies are permissive enough to offer you a way to overcome the confrontation with them via skilled and experienced fighting (even if is constant fighting). Not just have some invincible enemy or made-circumstances making impossible to fight such enemy/enemies and thus limiting oneself to solely 1st way to handle low sanity - avoid it at any cost. Would impact newbies/noobs and experienced players wanting to go to Ruins - for latter one would need a lot of sanity food while bons from Ruins remain the same (subpar for some even now), thus an effective nerf of Sanity Mechanic. No high stakes - high rewards, only high stakes - sub/mediocre rewards.

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Hornete    3348
4 minutes ago, GenomeSquirrel said:

 

How early do you usually have these built?

For the past week or so now I've been sort of rushing them. Getting all the materials and then setting sail out at day 10+

Besides that, I like to try and get a boat done by atleast day 30

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Szczuku    12405
4 minutes ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

Not just have some invincible enemy or made-circumstances making impossible to fight such enemy/enemies and thus limiting oneself to solely 1st way to handle low sanity - avoid it at any cost.

I said 'discourages' not 'instantly kills the player'.

What I was thinking about is a Shadow Creature that would for example:

-mess with cooking crockpot to make it result in wet goop 

-scare player's beefalo to make it throw the player off

-haunt a creature and turn it into a hostile enemy

Most of these would be preventable by walking over (an indicator would appear and the player'd 7-second window to stop it).

Idk but those don't seem to cruel for the new and ruins-rushing players.

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x0-VERSUS-1y    5181
37 minutes ago, Szczuku said:

I said 'discourages' not 'instantly kills the player'.

What I was thinking about is a Shadow Creature that would for example:

-mess with cooking crockpot to make it result in wet goop 

-scare player's beefalo to make it throw the player off

-haunt a creature and turn it into a hostile enemy

Most of these would be preventable by walking over (an indicator would appear and the player'd 7-second window to stop it).

Idk but those don't seem to cruel for the new and ruins-rushing players.

Considering newbies/noobs have a hard time dealing with Insanity Monsters at present, adjacent Insanity cons would in fact be more punishing and potentially cruel on them in their learning phase, effectively rising learning curve further for them. And regarding experienced players I presume "haunt a creature and turn it into a hostile enemy" implies par example being insane in Ruins makes Splumonkeys close to player (even outside of Apex Nightmare Cycle) transform into their Shadow form, thus having an enemy permanently on your track after unavoidable aggro, alongside Shadow Creatures spawning in this state.

 

One more aspect I want to stress: most dangers in DST come from cumulative factors. You don't only fight your 2 Shadows when Insane. You will get additional 2-3-etc ones from players close to you when they also are low-sanity (visiting pubs will see most players are in this bracket), then comes night with Charlie hands, rain and wetness, chill/overheating, other hostile mobs nearby, frog rains, hound waves, bosses etc counting as well. You can plan ahead to mitigate most of these, but even then multiple overlapping dangers may occur and doing so quite frequently if traveling a lot, making Survival a lot harder - in current DST state. Even some small tweak on the nerf/buff side of things can have a snowball effect in detrimental directions.

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Mike23Ua    5064

Guys no wait.. your literally not listening to a word I say lol, Has anyone played the 2009 hit that was Borderlands?

Do you remember how that game was programmed to where as a new player you saw enemies at around your level and of weaker threat value to an expert player?

Do you also remember how as an experienced player that same level 5 Skag Pup now was a level 50 Bad— Mutha Shock Skag to you? 

You and the noob were fighting the same enemy.. with the same amount of health based on your level- but the version You we’re fighting had some new found threat and danger involved that the new player didn’t have to be concerned about.

This is called Content scaling based on player experience level.. the problem with DST is that their ISNT an Experience level to scale to.

But what there IS is a whole bunch of options you can toggle on and off prior to hosting a server..

Okay so for example- let’s pretend Klei added in the ability to turn on or off poisonous damage over time bites from their spider warrior mobs (something that existed in DS Shipwrecked and this is probably the easiest example I can give)

For a newer player who struggles to just stay alive this additional poison hazard would not effect them.. but for the people who WANT that added challenge.. there it is in your options menu- Applied to you upon joining a server.

This is what I’ve been trying to explain since the first day I joined these forums.. you don’t HAVE to pick to play as Wes to feel challenged, there are other ways of doing that- Ways that if done right, Will allow noob players to co-exist in the same world with experienced players and BOTH skill levels of the players have an appropriate degree of challenge.

You can enjoy and play the game TOGETHER without the differences in how skilled or unskilled you are at the game clashing with one another and either making for a boring threat less experience for the veteran, or a unnecessarily brutally hardcore experience for the noob who already has a hard enough time staying alive as is.

The TL:DR- YOU are inflicted with Poison damage over time.... an effect that the new play never deals with, you both fight the same enemy.... but the version your fighting is a bit more threatening then the newbies.

 

THAT is what I want with DST, That’s where I want to see Klei go... and if Borderlands could do it as far back as 2009.... it should be more than possible in year 2020.

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Lucenix    226
31 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

For a newer player who struggles to just stay alive this additional poison hazard would not effect them.. but for the people who WANT that added challenge.. there it is in your options menu- Applied to you upon joining a server.

Some people would feel cheated if they chose to play in a world without those add-on difficulties though, even as a complete noob, as DST is a little time consuming and needs trial and error to succeed (at the very least, that's the intent of the game prior to being min-maxed). Investing a lot of time playing in a world without such dangers to learn how to play and then having to give up on all of it just to turn on something that's completely new (and probably dying to it because you never encountered it before) sucks because it gives the feeling you weren't really playing the game to the fullest extent. I am not speaking for all, probably just a few, but it would be something I would feel so that's why I am saying. That gets infinitely exponentiated if you're playing with your friends with different power levels inside the same game.

My solution would be the scaling up of the difficulty. Your Borderlands example is good because the game assumes you get proportionally better the more you play (and the higher your level) because you'll have access to more options and more gameplay experience. But Borderlands isn't a survival game that puts in you in the same worlds against the same odds technically forever. What could be done is implement those additions and difficulty additives over time, instead of the boring solution of just sending more doggos. Why don't the spiders mutate or change after the first year, starting at the second Autmn perhaps. By then most of the experienced players are capable of surviving indefinitely so it would change a little of the rythm of the "second loop" (taking a little bit from Risk of Rain 2).

Perhaps the changes require some of the items or challenges that most min-maxing players don't even bother with to be efficiently defused. For instance, Toadstool meddling with the surface through his caps and making things wither if not killed starting at the second spring (this idea is not mine, if someone knows who proposed it please credit them I don't remember where i saw it). It adds on to the challenge, changes things in the midst of playing and, most importantly, it forces the player to adapt (if the gameplay changes are different and require different approaches to be dealt with than they're basic counterparts).

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Mike23Ua    5064

^^^^ uhm probably because you can set your server to Autumn season only, turn off dog hound attacks and sit around being bored all day while your noob friends still die left and right? 
 

there HAS to be a Better Solution- World that scales based on how long you’ve stayed alive scales the entire world for Every single person in said world- Meaning if my noob friend who dies in Autumn only no dog attacks settings join said harder world They are going to die even more.

The idea I’m purposing is to allow me to play in this said boring Autumn only no hound waves ever server with my less skilled friend and me not be bored out of my mind.

 

Lets look at Minecraft as the greatest example of this shall we? in Minecraft you can apply personal server setting to your game that effect you and you alone...

 

SO My little sister can play in creative mode building things to her little hearts desire without having monsters or anything bother her.. MEANWHILE I am in that same world With her with my game settings set as Hard Survival Mode.

TL:DR- She can build stuff without ever being attacked or dying of hunger, Meanwhile I’m at risk of Starvation while running for my life from a Creeper riding a spider.

you didn’t know that was possible in Minecraft? Maybe you should.

Thing is for a game called Don’t Starve TOGETHER... it does very little in the form of actually allowing you to play TOGETHER.

I hate to sound like a broken record... but there has to be a better solution.

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Lucenix    226
17 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Lets look at Minecraft as the greatest example of this shall we? in Minecraft you can apply personal server setting to your game that effect you and you alone...

 

SO My little sister can play in creative mode building things to her little hearts desire without having monsters or anything bother her.. MEANWHILE I am in that same world With her with my game settings set as Hard Survival Mode.

To be fair you're comparing two players playing in a survival mode to two players playing in two completely different modes that don't really overlap so you wouldn't really be playing together (unless in some specific cases like her builiding a gauntlet for you to tranverse).

That world getting harder and harder could also be toggled off in the settings, there is no reason for it not to. Also, I think someone would be lying to themselves if they're playing a game noted for its supposed difficulty in game mode that's fully chilled out without any challenge, but that's a personal opinion and you showed a case (the sister example) where it would be more than acceptable.

17 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

The idea I’m purposing is to allow me to play in this said boring Autumn only no hound waves ever server with my less skilled friend and me not be bored out of my mind.

That opinion is to say that if you're playing with your noob friend under such restrictions, you're probably having fun playing with them regardless of the difficulty. Also, that solution is just separating the experience between both players, something that's really bad for a game that's supposed to praise its multiplayer component, as it brings a feeling of "everyone does their own thing... at the same time" instead of cooperating and and trying to solve problems together (your friend doesn't have to deal with poison spiders like you do so there is no reason for him to care about it, nor hound attacks).

Going beyond that, the game is kinda like a roguelite in the sense that, as the world isn't infinite, every experience is different because the world-gen mechanics (set-pieces) make the experience somewhat different in each iteration. The fun of the game isn't taking away the elements that make it difficult, is experimenting with them, failing and failing and failing, until you get it right and you can proceed, not turning them off. If that element of the game isn't fine-tuned, turning off those elements isn't the solution, unless the game is heading in a totally different direction. To be fair, that comes hand-in-hand with my opinion that turning stuff off is not really playing the game, which is subjective, but that's my reasoning and the place I am coming from.

So, when your noob friends die left and right they are supposed to learn something (and you, with them, teaching/learning as well). At the very least, that's the intent in my opinion. If the game delivers or not is another discussion, because the mechanics could be so bad that that's not even possible, making the mechanic not really fun (looking at you disease over there)... either that or I have an entirely different view of DST than everybody else. 

Edited by Lucenix
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On 5/19/2020 at 5:16 PM, Mike23Ua said:

^^^^ uhm probably because you can set your server to Autumn season only, turn off dog hound attacks and sit around being bored all day while your noob friends still die left and right? 
 

there HAS to be a Better Solution- World that scales based on how long you’ve stayed alive scales the entire world for Every single person in said world- Meaning if my noob friend who dies in Autumn only no dog attacks settings join said harder world They are going to die even more.

The idea I’m purposing is to allow me to play in this said boring Autumn only no hound waves ever server with my less skilled friend and me not be bored out of my mind.

 

Lets look at Minecraft as the greatest example of this shall we? in Minecraft you can apply personal server setting to your game that effect you and you alone...

 

SO My little sister can play in creative mode building things to her little hearts desire without having monsters or anything bother her.. MEANWHILE I am in that same world With her with my game settings set as Hard Survival Mode.

TL:DR- She can build stuff without ever being attacked or dying of hunger, Meanwhile I’m at risk of Starvation while running for my life from a Creeper riding a spider.

you didn’t know that was possible in Minecraft? Maybe you should.

Thing is for a game called Don’t Starve TOGETHER... it does very little in the form of actually allowing you to play TOGETHER.

I hate to sound like a broken record... but there has to be a better solution.

Minecraft is epic.

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I am certain an overhaul of the game's older mechanics would be ideal for the simple explanation that we're all just too used to playing the game the optimal way every time. New content has the unfortunate effect of diminishing returns just as building new sections of a wall doesn't fix the holes that are already there.

For all what is it worth, why not shake things up a bit?

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pecknxck    83

imo, I agree that things should get more difficult as years progress. I have a 200 day server, and I've noticed that things get really samey. Spring is kinda just autumn 2 since we all have the supplies to negate rain, summer is pretty much just spicy winter since we have flingos, winter is an absolute pushover. I wanna see a general climb in difficulty as years progress.

Like, maybe make winter harsher year after year. Year 2, things can completely freeze and become unusable until thawed. Temperatures dip even further. Beefalo hibernate. Things like that which aren't going to bite new players until very late game, but still provide a refreshing challenge for those looking for it.

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ArubaroBeefalo    2440
16 minutes ago, Terra_Zina said:

I feel like a lot of people forgot what it was like playing for the first time.

Don't Starve is a hard game, you just happen to be good at it.

the problem is that when you get the experience to survive the four season the difficulty drops a lot. Atleast in dst we have raid bosses so surviving the seasons has a bigger propuse but i was playing DS and is just so empty, there is nothing to do when you get the gear to survive. Atleas im using rog to build stuff in hamlet but in dst you can get so bored between bosses because nothing changed in day 100, 1000, 100000

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Mike23Ua    5064
1 hour ago, Terra_Zina said:

I feel like a lot of people forgot what it was like playing for the first time.

Don't Starve is a hard game, you just happen to be good at it.

This isn’t true at all.. I’ve never tamed or ridden a Beefalo, so I’ve never had the power of a Beef to help me in fights, I’ve never used a walking cane so my movement around the map is always hella slow, and I rarely use anything that’s a higher tier than basic spears and football helmets.. despite this- I am able to survive all four seasons just fine.

The problem isn’t that I’m too good at the game- The problem is that items that SHOULD be getting use should have a Use, and items that get used too often should be less relied upon.

For example- If Killing butterflies Or eating foods no longer provided you with free souls or health points Or sleeping in a Tent/Lean to no longer provided health restoration then you’d have no other choice but to go out and hunt down and kill the things for the supply’s you need to heal yourself.

Theres an actual tab for healing salves, Honey poultice, Booster shots.. we should be Using it.

I come from some true survival simulators.. and since DS was advertised as a Totally Uncompromising Wilderness Survival game- is it wrong of me to expect more of that?

Is it wrong of me to think gee.. how can this game be uncompromising when there’s an item or structure that makes EVERYTHING 100% Compromising?

Summer Wildfires catching your base on fire? You ain’t got to worry about that as long as you got an Ice Flingo.

Low on both health and sanity? Just munch some special foods or sleep in a tent/lean- to.

Did you just die? Oh don’t worry there’s resurrection items and amulets so you never truly stay dead.. 

Did Bearger or Deerclops just come through and totally wreck your entire base?? That’s okay because In this game you can literally pre-craft an entire base worth of structures and keep those in your inventory until your actually ready to place them down. A literal “Base in Your Pocket”

There are a lot of items, structures & gameplay methods people can use that in a true Totally Uncompromising Mode... simply would NOT EXIST AT ALL period..

I may be in the minority here but I don’t want to go out of my way to find some boss geared towards multiplayer boss fights to feel challenged by this game... I want an actual Uncompromising Wilderness Survival, like what was advertised when I bought it.

I want disasters that challenge my surviving knowledge.. for example- I can’t take a path in a cave that I’m used to taking because an earthquake caused said path to crumble and no longer be available unless I built a bridge connecting both ends back together again.

I want to go to sleep in a rain storm inside my tent and wake up to a flood outside and my base that I put too close to the ocean washing away into the water.

I want tornadoes, flooding, harsh blizzards.. I want to focus less on doing stuff to make pearl happy and fighting an optional Crab King boss, and more on stuff that makes every day survival itself more of a challenge.

The TL:DR- The Formula of DS worked well in 2013... but we are in 2020 now, and it’s time that Klei delivered on the Totally Uncompromising Wilderness Survival stuff in a brand new game mode that makes simply surviving a challenge all in its own right.

If they started a kickstarter campaign to fund money raising for a huge update like this I would for dang sure invest my money into it.

Edited by Mike23Ua
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Mike23Ua    5064

Why should I need mods when there should be alternate game modes or server selection options that let me customize & personalize my gameplay experience without needing to buy a PC and learn Modding to do something that a simple toggle switch should Be able to do?

I would understand and probably even agree with you if there literally wasn’t already a built in game menu screen where I can toggle more or less of certain gameplay features. 
 

I can set a server to lights out and play with no daylight ever.... I’m pretty sure there are ways to add more customization options that lets ME the player, not a Mod someone else created- choose Exactly how easy or hard my game experience will be.

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