Geforce Now Game Removal

[goldant]

I searched the forums and didn't already find this topic, so creating a new topic. Let me know if this has already been answered and I can remove this topic.

Edit:
Klei did not remove their games from Geforce Now. See first post.

Why the Removal?
Why is Klei removing their games from Geforce Now? I've been really bothered by developers doing this, and I didn't think that Klei would fall into that bucket. As a consumer, I'm paying for a license to use on my Steam account. Why is it any of the developer/publishers business where I run my license? If I want to run the game on a toaster that doesn't have a display, that's my prerogative as long as I'm not using my license in more than one place at a time. If the reason is they don't want people to give people the ability to run it not on their computer, then they should go ahead and ban gaming cafes from being able to use their games too. Gaming cafes are public computers that people login too as well. Geforce Now cloud gaming is no different.

Devils Advocate
Trying to play devil's advocate rationalize why Klei might be doing this but really I'd like to know from the Klei itself. Maybe it's because...:

• They intend to bring it back onto the platform with official support? This seems unlikely.
• They have existing licensing agreements that conflict with Geforce Now?
• They feel the game experiences would be so poor they don't want users to get a bad impression of the company...?
• They're worried about support requests from users on Geforce Now?

Does anyone know why Klei games are actually getting pulled? I'm hoping it's for something legitimate like licensing and not for the typical developer excuses I've seen online about having arbitrary control regardless of what the users want :(.

[JoeW]

We did not request for our games to be pulled from GeForce Now. To my knowledge the only thing we did was decline to be "signed up for a marketing and promotion agreement for the service." for Don't Starve and Don't Starve Together.  

I believe they did change to an opt-in system rather than just having any game on steam available through their service and that may have resulted in our games no longer being available. However, we have never had any arrangement to be part of their service as far as I am aware.

 

[goldant]

Thank you for the reply. That makes me feel a lot better knowing Klei didn't purposely remove any games.

It sounds like Geforce Now is the one dropping the ball here in multiple ways.

[JoeW]

41 minutes ago, goldant said:

Thank you for the reply. That makes me feel a lot better knowing Klei didn't purposely remove any games.

It sounds like Geforce Now is the one dropping the ball here in multiple ways.

Yeah - I just saw the blog post. It definitely sounds from the way they wrote it that we actively removed our games, but your post was the first we had even heard of it. 

Thanks for letting us know. 

[crazybabe]

I was so sad when i saw that Klei was removing their games from Geforce NOW.

JoeW, can you please give us more information about this situation if possible? It is crazy that so many publishers and their games removed from Geforce NOW since 2-3 months. And we always thought it was the Greedy Publishers.

So far :

Squarenix Rockstar Activision Blizzard 2K Bethesda Capcom EA Konami Warner Microsoft's Klei Codemasters

This is crazy and they don't even give us answers. 

Is this "marketing and promotion agreement for the service" really that bad that all these publishers left the service? 

We are all so lost.

Thanks.

[JoeW]

Sorry. Let me clarify. 

The last discussion with them was an offer to discuss "marketing and promotion" for our game on their service, to which we declined. 

We decline marketing and promotion from different places all the time for various reasons, but the point was that we did not remove our games from their service. Simply put, they put us up there and then they took it back down.

We weren't involved in the decision to be part of GeForce Now and we were not part of the decision to be removed from it. 

[crazybabe]

Thank you so much JoeW, have a wonderfull day.

[mentar]

Thanks for the clear response @JoeW

I've grilled Nvidia on this (link) , according to them

Quote

We don't require any publisher or developer to sign marketing and promotional agreements to be part of GeForce NOW.

Would love to get to the bottom of this. I really enjoy Klei games and I love being able to play on my work i5 laptop the few times I can afford downtime not being able to makes me sad.

[JoeW]

We have always had a good relationship with Nvidia in the past. I just wanted to clarify here that we didn't actively remove ourselves or request to be removed from their service because people were upset that we were going out of our way to take something away from them. Which was not the case.

They reached out to us yesterday and I will post an update here when I have more info. 

[Dunk Mujunk]

Yeah, I just read an article from the Verge about this, and they are definitely making it sound like it is the fault of various devs.

Here is the link-

https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/20/21228792/nvidia-geforce-now-microsoft-xbox-game-studios-warner-bros-remove-games

I actually signed up for that trash to set the articles comment section straight (on Klei at least), but I have to wait a day before being able to comment.

[minespatch]

2 hours ago, Dunk Mujunk said:

the Verge

Yeah, Verge is part of Gawker's group. I try to avoid them like the plague.

[cramezid]

Just wanted to add in here that I absolutely love your games, especially Oxygen Not Included, but my computer is just not good enough to play them. I was able to buy them because and the expacs because they were playable on geforce, really hope you can work something out with Nvidia to keep it on the service!

[foolmanchoo]

Just wanted to add another voice in support of both Klei and GFN to this thread.

Klei, I'm a huge fan of your games, and your company’s approach to development and games.

GFN is a great service that allows's me to play your games (as well as others) rendered in their full glory on what is the equivalent of an old toaster oven.

I hope you can get this resolved amicably with Nvida and let us all get back to having fun.

[crazybabe]

I am guessing this is good news?  https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/forums/gfn-for-pc/22/373197/games-update-4242020/  No Klei games removed from Geforce NOW yesterday. <3 <3 <3 Thanks! <3 

[TheGoldenDonut_]

What the heck is Geforce.

[Viktor234]

4 minutes ago, crazybabe said:

I have no idea KLEI were actually this greedy. 

"greedy" is the wrong word here, a way better fitting word would be: Lazy

[MondayNight]

3 minutes ago, TheGoldenDonut_ said:

What the heck is Geforce.

I suppose a game library/vendor akin Steam's. People do love particular services it seems. At least is not a Discord game-customer one, probably the most laughable game library/selling service one could opt for.

[Dunk Mujunk]

5 hours ago, crazybabe said:

A bunch of delusional nonsense

 

On 4/21/2020 at 6:55 PM, JoeW said:

Sorry. Let me clarify. 

The last discussion with them was an offer to discuss "marketing and promotion" for our game on their service, to which we declined. 

We decline marketing and promotion from different places all the time for various reasons, but the point was that we did not remove our games from their service. Simply put, they put us up there and then they took it back down.

We weren't involved in the decision to be part of GeForce Now and we were not part of the decision to be removed from it. 

Klei is not at fault. Sounds like GeForce wanted money for something Klei doesn't need, and when Klei said no thanks GeForce dropped them.

I thought pretty much everyone on PC used Steam?

[1bubbainpa]

6 minutes ago, crazybabe said:

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/forums/gfn-announcements/22/380557/geforce-now-library-update-and-some-qa/

 

Q: Why are games removed?

A: Partner publishers and developers decide what games will be available to play through GeForce NOW using a simple opt-in process. We make this process as easy as possible -- there are no costs for the developer, or porting requirements -- but some partners are still figuring out their cloud strategies. If a publisher declines to opt in before May 31, its game will be removed.

 

Good job KLEI. I am out of here. Luckily my friends will hopefully get their refunds who purchased your games for just Geforce NOW. Added to Blocked list on steam. Stay Greedy! For those people above, just LEARN how Geforce NOW works! 

 

Feel free to DELETE my account.

Why are you so angry, I don’t get it.

[Miskatonic]

I don't want to endorse the previous poster's intense tone but would like to also voice my disappointment in the pending removal of all of Klei's games from Nvidia's GeForce Now service.

If we take Nvidia at their word, their updated approach to making games available on GeForce Now no longer requires any monetary or promotional agreement, just that the developer/publisher gives approval to make the game available.  If having to agree to such a deal was the sticking point that resulted in the previous discussed pending removal (the date of which came and went with the games staying up, so I thought maybe Klei had given their blessing) it seems like it should hopefully no longer be an issue.

For those that hadn't heard of GeForce Now or are unfamiliar with how it works, it is not a separate store front like Discord had, but a kind of 'virtiual PC' rental service.  It ties into your existing Steam library, and all game purchases are made via Steam, Nvidia gets no part of the sale.  Instead you are paying Nvidia to access this virtual PC which runs Windows installed with Steam and the supported game.  The game runs remotely on this virtual PC instance and the game's video and audio is steamed to a supported device, like a phone or tablet, with control input flowing in reverse.  So you still have to buy the game on Steam, but then can access it anywhere via GeForce Now provided you have a relatively stable network connection.

Through GeForce Now I finally had a chance to play Oxygen Not Included and DST, neither of which would run well (or at all with Oxygen) on my admittedly very dated PC.  I'd even persuaded a few friends to purchase DST on Steam so we could play together.

I'm hopeful Klei will reconsider and give their blessing for their Steam distributed games that are currently available via GeForce Now to remain on the service rather than be pulled.

Thanks!

 

[Dunk Mujunk]

Honestly if I was Klei I probably wouldn't want to work with Nvidia. Regardless of the situation now, as JoeW said-

On 4/21/2020 at 5:22 PM, JoeW said:

It definitely sounds from the way they wrote it that we actively removed our games, but your post was the first we had even heard of it.

 

On 4/21/2020 at 6:55 PM, JoeW said:

We weren't involved in the decision to be part of GeForce Now and we were not part of the decision to be removed from it. 

And after that nonsense, Klei is suppose to now go sign themselves back up?

I can sympathise with the players effected, but from a business standpoint Nvidias behavior seems erratic and i'd probably avoid them at this point if I was Klei.

Also there is this-

"Unfortunately, it hasn't all been smooth sailing. In GeForce Now's early days, Nvidia jumped the gun a bit in terms of game availability by serving games they didn't have an explicit agreement to offer. As a result, shortly after the service left Beta, several publishers abandoned GeForce Now (along with their games): Bethesda, Activision Blizzard, and 2K Games, to name just a few."

https://www.techspot.com/news/85400-nvidia-introduces-opt-policy-geforce-now-prevent-game.html

"At the very beginning, this meant that any game a player owned through select digital storefronts, (initially Steam, Battle.net, Epic Games Store, and Uplay) would be playable on the service. 
 
That pitch is changing, a post-launch shift no doubt influenced by the fact that many major publishers like Activision Blizzard, 2K, and Bethesda seemingly weren’t too keen on their games being playable through the cloud without their explicit go-ahead."

https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/363757/After_some_highprofile_opt_outs_Nvidia_GeForce_Now_swaps_to_an_optin_library.php

This is on Nvidia. Sounds like they were counting on playerbases to hold devs hostage.

[Miskatonic]

I would think any PC developer would at least work with Nvidia in some capacity, just to ensure their games work on the company's video cards.

But yes, the initial GeForce Now approach of "ask for forgiveness, rather then permission" really hasn't panned out for anyone involved.  Even if some legal opinions questioned if Nvidia even needed agreements in place; provided a game's license didn't explicitly forbid cloud installs, of which very few did (Blizzard being a notable publisher that updated their TOS while GeForce Now was still in beta to explicitly forbid it).

The grey area seems to be if the automated server setup Nvidia is using is in the clear to count as users installing a game they have purchased a license for onto a machine they "own".  If you rented a physical PC from a local company and then install Steam and a game on it, that should be OK right?  What if you access said PC remotely; still OK to play a game you bought on Steam or would you have to get the OK from the game's publisher?  GeForce Now is similar in many ways, but the service is being offered by a major company and streamlines a lot of the setup and install required by the end user.

In fact a similar service, Shadow, has none of the steamlined process, and just provides a remotely accessible Windows Box that's tuned for gaming.  As far as I know they haven't had any challenges from publishers, mainly because they don't advertise specific games as working on the service.

Anyways, all I'd really like is an official statement from JoeW or someone else at Klei as to wether they are even considering allowing their games to remain on GeForce Now or if they've already decided to have Nvidia remove them, which seems to be the current plan.

[minespatch]

39 minutes ago, Miskatonic said:

official statement from JoeW

 

On 4/21/2020 at 6:55 PM, JoeW said:

Sorry. Let me clarify. 

The last discussion with them was an offer to discuss "marketing and promotion" for our game on their service, to which we declined. 

We decline marketing and promotion from different places all the time for various reasons, but the point was that we did not remove our games from their service. Simply put, they put us up there and then they took it back down.

We weren't involved in the decision to be part of GeForce Now and we were not part of the decision to be removed from it. 

 

On 4/22/2020 at 2:06 PM, JoeW said:

We have always had a good relationship with Nvidia in the past. I just wanted to clarify here that we didn't actively remove ourselves or request to be removed from their service because people were upset that we were going out of our way to take something away from them. Which was not the case.

They reached out to us yesterday and I will post an update here when I have more info. 

These don't count....?

[Dunk Mujunk]

24 minutes ago, Miskatonic said:

I would think any PC developer would at least work with Nvidia in some capacity, just to ensure their games work on the company's video cards.

 

On 4/21/2020 at 6:55 PM, JoeW said:

We weren't involved in the decision to be part of GeForce Now and we were not part of the decision to be removed from it. 

Whether they worked with Nvidia on the development end or not, the Nvidia department tied to Developer relations would almost definitely be completely separate from the department dealing with GeForce.

Aside from that, it seems that Klei would have to agree to a

On 4/21/2020 at 6:55 PM, JoeW said:

"marketing and promotion"

deal with Nvidia to remain on GeForce, to which Klei responds-

On 4/21/2020 at 6:55 PM, JoeW said:

We decline marketing and promotion from different places all the time for various reasons

So for DST to remain on GeForce Klei would have to agree to a deal that they weren't interested in to begin with, and they would be entering into that deal with a company that botched a situation involving one/some of Kleis games when they never had Kleis consent to be working with their games to begin with.

Nvidia- Hey, if you want your games to stay on GeForce you have to give us legal permission to market and promote them.

Klei- What? Who are you and what is GeForce? No thanks man.

Nvidia- Fine, we are pulling your game.

Jilted GeForce Customers- Uninformed accusations against the party not at fault.

Nvidia- Alright, here's the deal, we will let you opt in to the deal we offered you, the deal you didn't want, and we will keep your games on GeForce.

Klei- ???????!!!!!!!!!

I'd personally say that anyone with any issues should be demanding a statement from Nvidia, not the developers whos products were used without consent.

But I also have a sneaking suspicion that Nvidia would direct the users to their TOS, which more than likely stated the terms of the GeForce Beta.

Either way-

On 4/22/2020 at 2:06 PM, JoeW said:

They reached out to us yesterday and I will post an update here when I have more info. 

So i'm sure a statement from Klei will arrive when it is available to be posted.

[Miskatonic]

10 minutes ago, minespatch said:

These don't count....?

This part of the last post in this thread by JoeW is what I was talking about.

On 4/22/2020 at 1:06 PM, JoeW said:

They reached out to us yesterday and I will post an update here when I have more info.