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ADM

Wobster and Bisque required changes

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ADM    4616

Before we start, I'd just like to say that I'm often very pleased by the balancing of the game and developers decisions on statistics. Many of the recipes of the game gives roles to resources and if they wasn't there, most of players will not show that much interest in collecting them

that said... I have now a problem with this bad boy :

latest?cb=20151207203909Lobster Bisque : 24?cb=20190617114634 60 24?cb=20190617114410 25 24?cb=2019061711474910

This recipe requires a living Wobster and ice.

 

We also have a second Wobster recipe beside the bisque, which seems quite similar but with greater sanity and hunger stats :

latest?cb=20151207203859Lobster Dinner : 24?cb=20190617114634 60 24?cb=20190617114410 37.5 24?cb=20190617114749 50

Now the deal is a living Wobster as well and butter, but you must not put ice or meat as fillers.

 

So what's wrong ? Many, many, many things.

Let's start with the Wobster topic :

First, Wobsters and their recipes are from Shipwrecked. I'm so happy that those adorable and delicious (I guess :?) creatures have been ported to DST

BUT the association with SW stops here ! Wobsters once required a expensive trap on early game latest?cb=20151206125834 with meat as a bait or place it over their den in the sea and you had to wait for dusk to get one or catch them with Trawl Nets, which was quite a funny activity.

 

On DST, Wobster Mounds can be found from the shore in an abundant quantity and spawn multiple Wobsters at any moment of the day :

1olesuez6yp41.thumb.jpg.768ed43dba08f42eeac034e6f77e576b.jpg

I've started a new survival game with a friend today and we constructed the base at the Moon Stone, we didn't figured it before but there were 4 Wobster Mounds next to it. (not this screenshot)

From far one of the best base spot that you have to try out the next time you play.

 

 

 

Well, finding Wobsters is very easy, but this is a tiny fragment of the problem compared to the next one : latest?cb=20121216124929x1 = 60 24?cb=20190617114634 ?

I'm not even joking, you can check but there is no plants that you can grow in farm to restore you 60HP in a recipe or what...

Nonetheless : place your seeds on a Sea Fishing Rod that you can craft on your first days and let's do some magic.

Magic, cause I don't know which rule of the Constant said that it is possible to catch lobsters with massive claws without wiping out your line, this is very sad cause they don't even try to resist you, reel without restrictions and harvest your Wobster, the poor guy won't give you a fight for his life.

 

Wobster topic is over, but I'd get back to it at the end with suggestions to improve this resource.

Now the Lobster Bisque topic is very simple.

Of course the Lobster Dinner is one of the strongest recipes but it have the excuse of requiring butter which is a good restriction since Waffles restores 60HP as well by using the said butter combined with Berries and eggs, so if you use a Wobster instead you gain a more advantageous sanity regeneration than Waffles and it's fine since you need more advanced ingredients :

Berries can be used as a bait to catch Wobsters = it's a more advanced ingredient, simple and logic, Lobster Dinner had to be better.

But the Lobster Bisque have no such pretext, Ice is the most used ingredient by players as a filler, it can be obtained in all seasons in variable quantities and you will certainly have more Ice than reason during winter for the rest of the year and all other recipes of the game that require Ice restore from 0 to 20 HP, none of the two ingredients are good enough to justify the massive healing.

 

Okay so I hope most of you made it to the "end" and that you understand what actually matters now : how can we improve Wobster quality or tweak the bisque (Tweak the bisque... this sounds great) ?

 

Catching solutions :

SW Wobster tools were just better in my opinion, using the rod should be a reservation to Ocean Fishes, yet I don't think the Sea Trap is something the devs want to bring back to the game (even if we have bottles now bottles.png) but those traps used to be a great way to use meat as a bait and not cheap items like seeds to catch the priced Wobsters !

Trawl Nets were also fantastic and one of the favourite boat equipment of SW players for mass farming of rare resources but time consuming since it slowed your boat. Now imagine using this for DST boats, exiting isn't it ?

But if Trawl Nets don't comes to the game, relax : we have Fishing Nets, they've been here for a while now but still not implemented or working properly, you probably know it so I'm just gonna pretend you don't need further informations.

1olesuez6yp41.thumb.jpg.d1b9fc406f9bd71e53cebbadda9325a9.jpg

The catching methods topic is now covered, but yet I'm also not very satisfied with the frequency and location of the Wobster Mounds.

 

Relocation solution :

I don't like the fact that we don't have to use boats to find Wobsters, we're looking for more sea interactions but so far you can farm tons of Wobsters from the land, and there is not a single Wobster Mound in deep ocean, it's pretty surprising since lobsters aren't exactly shoreline creatures. The only place I'm okay with so far is on the Lunar Island with its unique Wobsters that are nice for Moon Shards farming. :encouragement:

(if you don't know what I'm talking about you should prepare a fishing trip to the Moon Island !)

One of the BEST locations that have been added in Return of Them are the Salt Mines, these micro-environments randomly dispersed in the ocean are super interesting and I as looking for more of this stuff added in other updates so I hope this is a missed chance that will be reconsidered.

 

Bisque (?) solution :

If the Wobster relocation interested you then I'm happy with myself cause this is what I'm looking for in the first place, but if not, the Lobster Bisque have to be adjusted and not be a simple port from SW without rebalancing its stats now that you know the Wobsters aren't working the same from SW to DST.

Or just change the recipe, because I'm gonna end this interminable feedback on Wobsters with the finest quote of our dear friend :

wilsum.png"Could use more salt, but that's none of my bisque-ness."

 

Thanks everyone for the read ! Your opinions on the topic are welcome as always and I hope you know how much I respect the devs work on the updates, I'm simply willing to help and improve the current state of in-dev elements to make them better to other players once it's ready. See you soon and take care.

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Hornete    4068
1 hour ago, ADM said:

Catching solutions :

I think it could be really cool if we used fishes as bait for Wobsters. So you have to catch a fish first, put it as your bait and then you can catch the Wobsters possibly.

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Shosuko    2229

iirc - the hook line and inker beta allowed you to capture anything with any bait / lure but on release it was restricted.  The wobsters may not be acting on their intended restrictions.  I like the idea of wobster traps more than fishing tho

However - I agree, they should be something a bit further out from shore so that we make our fishing trips.  They should stay a good resource, I wouldn't lower the stats from them otherwise - why go fish them up?  I think making them less numerous would be better so you have to put in an effort over time with bundling wraps to stockpile them.

I'm also glad to see the wobster dishes from SW.  I hope Warley gets a unique wobster recipe.

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Owlrus98    2537

I do agree that certain aspects of the Wobster do need to be adjusted, however I don't necessarily agree on a few points; so I would like to respectfully share my position: TL;DR

  • I agree that Wobsters should be caught with a device/lure exclusive to them, but I personally wouldn't use them if they were too "out of the way" to be worth making. I will say though, I still think that using a smaller fish as bait would work great as well to catch bigger game and would be well-earned as a reward for a Wobster.
  • Butterflies can be farmed for easy health (8 a piece) and are almost never criticized for that, so I cannot argue against these dishes giving as much as they do unfortunately.
  • Surf N' Turf can be made almost as easy (or even easier) and gives the same stats as a Lobster Dinner minus 17 sanity, requiring only 3 freshwater fish and 1 meat/monster meat.
  • I agree that Ice is very easy to mass produce, however I will say that Ice doesn't spawn in Summer, so you miss out on an entire season before you could make these dishes once again (a small thing, but still worth mentioning). 
  • If a mechanic (in my opinion of course) is too tedious to be worthwhile, players will only interact with it to mess around with and not take seriously as a valid method of survival. Why spend 1-3 days sailing on the ocean for maybe 4 or 5 Wobsters when you can make a Bunnyman farm instead, or prepare for the next seasons. I personally don't think it's worthwhile to fish to stay alive in general because you have to go out of your way to do it, and the rewards are minimal in the long run. 
  • We also have to remember that oceanic traversal is a lot slower than it was in SW because you were able to simply hop in a personal boat on a whim and sail off, whereas here, it's a process that takes time to do and can easily soak up a lot of your time in doing it. 
  • Having a set of traps you can prop up on the ocean and go back to every 4-5 days or so to harvest would be nice, and it gives the players a shorter-more realistic reason to go out to sea for a little while. Especially if the traps require the player to sew them once they run out of durability.
  • I personally think that the values need to be changed in some aspects. More specifically, I would like to see one of them reward more hunger than health if possible as I could never see myself going out of my way to find butter for a dish that I can just make with ice instead (even if the sanity is nicer in the Lobster Dinner).
  • I'm not too keen on butter either as I am not a fan of RNG ingredients, so I would reccomend changing it to either fruits or honey. If one were to kill 4 butterflies and not get butter, the wings alone would equal the hunger from the Lobster Dinner itself; and if you were to kill 8, you would surpass the health benefits from the dish too. Sanity is another issue, however people agree that there are numerous dishes and methods to regain it anyways.
  • I also agree that Wobsters are a bit too close to shore as personally I find them to be a big eyesore on the land's edge. Not to mention I would love to see something else take up that space later on in the future.
  • Lastly, to reiterate I would also like to mention that I'd love to see an even larger fish that can be cut into multiple morsels. More so, I'd like to see a mechanic where you use fish to catch another fish of a larger size (IE: small to medium, medium to large).

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Electroely    3667

I personally like the wobsters the way they are now. I'd like to first mention that you can in fact use spinnerbait to catch them, and it's reusable to the only cost to catching them once you have the proper gear is the time investment.

I think they're fine because, while they can be useful in cooking, you're faced with the downside of needing them alive, which means no stacking, no fridge and no tin fishin' bin (since they don't go in it). It means making your base near them can be a good idea (as you'll get easier access to them) and that they aren't an easy go-to healing option (unless you've based near their dens). So far, I still think Surf n Turf is a better dish than Wobster Bisque. It has somewhat better stats (sanity being the most major difference) and you can keep fish in tin fishin' bins indefinitely, so as long as I have two monster meat I know I can cook up a Surf n Turf with two deep bass. I also believe that getting ice for cooking recipes isn't great, since there's alternatives that are easier and more consistent to get, and the ice is better saved for crafting recipes that need it. 

As for the dens' placement, I don't think they're an eyesore, but I do think they look a bit out of place. They'd probably look better if their areas had some decorations in them that made the wobster den areas feel more like mini-biomes than just rocks in the middle of nowhere

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Wumpair    404

I have an Idea:

what if Wobsters still would be near the land, but not near enough to couch them without a boat. They would be not hostile, till the moment when you catch one of them. After it they could ether: go a way in fear (like rabbits) or do little bit of attacking. How would they attack? Well they would do a small hole in the boat where you stand, then they would squeeze their little claws in it and catch you in the foot, dealing 5 damage that you couldn't block by any thing (Even the bone armor). But you could stop them of doing such attack with the new bait that grandma sells (The sack) if you throe it to the Wobsters, and then catch them they will not attack you! How do you think, is this balanced enough?

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Steamerclaw    93

Well , I'm agree to do some change on the wobster in dst , but not on the recipes themselves . If we change the way / difficulty in order to get them , then it will be more worth to "accept" the recipes are easy to do and get 60hp .

- If we look back to SW , you have to catch the wobster with a water trap to make de lobster bisque . Or you can just pick up to 3 limpets and add an ice to get the classic bisque (60hp , 18.75 hunger and 5 sanity) , it's more easier . Dens are scattered all over the shallow ocean , but in small quantity . Furthermore , wobsters don't go out until it's dusk or night .
- If we look to DST , wobster have to be fished like the other ocean fish , but don't resist . Dens are on the banks of the main island , sometime with 3 or 4 dens at the same place . The wobster go out after some time and still out until someone catch them .

So the main problems are the locations of the dens and the way to catch them which are really problematic for a correct balancing (even a small fish is harder to get , and the wobsters are one of the heavier "fish" )

I think we can do the following changes :
- A relocation of the mounds. A little more far away than the banks, but not as far as the rough ocean. More in the middle of the coastal ocean or in the frontier between coastal ocean and swell ocean (i use the wikia name if you don't understand what I'm saying) . In this way , wobster are not directly at hand , but don't have to sail really far to find them (and that match the location in SW) .
- Less dens OR dusk/night fishing . To still have a little less wobsters , dens must spawn alone or at max 2 , with good distance between each of them ; or give them the same "clock" than SW (only out in dusk and nightime) so they don't stack around .
- "Intense fight" . As I said before , wobster is one of the heavier "fish" (if not the heavier) . Make the reeling fight harder than the black catfish . And if this fight make him that hard, give us the water trap to trade with our lovely Pearl (Hermit Crab) , unlock in the same time than the high lures or with the big lure chest .

I think I've said all of my ideas that could improve them .

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Viktor234    4239

Many recipes require some certain changes, e.g. Seafood Gumbo and Surf 'n' Turf:

Seafood Gumbo is made with 1x Raw Fish and 3x Fish Morsel and restores 40 Health, 37.5 Hunger, and 20 Sanity. If you replace that Raw Fish with Monster Meat, which restores -3 Health and 18.75 Hunger if cooked, you'll get Surf 'n' Turf which restores 60 Health, 37.5 Hunger, and 20 Sanity, plus you'll still have the Raw Fish which restores 20 Health and 25 Hunger if cooked. More stats for using worse fillers.

And getting Monster Meat is easier than getting Raw Fish.

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shadowDigga    719

The only thing I want changed about wobsters is to make their spawners reside underwater, like they did in SW. It's really annoying that right now they block movement of boats. Both recipes are mediocre in my opinion and the way wobsters are easy to catch is balanced by rarity of butter. Perhaps only Warly would bother making those because he can't eat dried kelps/cooked green mushrooms/cooked cacti to restore his sanity. Even Wigfrid players will probably never bother making Wobster Dinners.

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Electroely    3667
34 minutes ago, Viktor234 said:

Many recipes require some certain changes, e.g. Seafood Gumbo and Surf 'n' Turf:

Seafood Gumbo is made with 1x Raw Fish and 3x Fish Morsel and restores 40 Health, 37.5 Hunger, and 20 Sanity. If you replace that Raw Fish with Monster Meat, which restores -3 Health and 18.75 Hunger if cooked, you'll get Surf 'n' Turf which restores 60 Health, 37.5 Hunger, and 20 Sanity, plus you'll still have the Raw Fish which restores 20 Health and 25 Hunger if cooked. More stats for using worse fillers.

And getting Monster Meat is easier than getting Raw Fish.

The recipe you listed doesn't work: it makes Surf 'n' Turf rather than Seafood Gumbo.

I do think the relationship between Seafood Gumbo and Surf 'n' Turf is a bit wacky (since fish have meat + fish values, it's harder to make the former than the latter). But I think balance-wise, Surf 'n' Turf is fine. I feel that it's worth the trouble of making it, and its high health gives an incentive to fish, since few few meat-based recipes give that much health.

As for the Seafood Gumbo, though... it might as well be removed from the game in the current state of things. I can almost guarantee you most players have never made it (I haven't made it in a legitimate world), and that is because... you NEED an eel to make it. It's not a recipe requirement or anything, it's just a technicality: eels are the only crockpot ingredient with a higher fish value than meat value. The thing about the recipe is that it has lower priority than Surf 'n' Turf, so if you complete the requirements for Surf 'n' Turf you don't get Seafood Gumbo. Here are the requirements:
 - Seafood Gumbo: fish value of over 2 (effectively a minimum of 2.5 fish)
 - Surf 'n' Turf: at least 2.5 meat and at least 1.5 fish and no ice
The problem is obvious: Unless you use eels, a 2.5 fish value means you also have a 2.5 meat value. That means you complete the requirements for Surf 'n' Turf, and that means you don't get Seafood Gumbo.

If I were to re-balance Seafood Gumbo vs. Surf 'n' Turf, I'd make it so that the fish requirement for Surf 'n' Turf is at least 2 (fish >= 2) and the fish requirement of Seafood Gumbo is at least 1.5 (fish >= 1.5). That way, you always need at least one large fish to make Surf 'n' Turf.

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gghhrr    307

I think we can split wobster mound spawn in two areas

 

very few wobster mounds spawn distinctly around the shoal with land biome

at very slow spawn rate and low in amount

1~2 wobsters can be found per mound for 3-6 days

 

(we should have some set pieces on the sea, this one could be designed that way)

and a few shoals spawn in deep ocean and swell ocean,

there will be greatest amounts of wobsters centralize and faster spawn rate

 

and we should have at least two methods to catch wobster

sea fishing rod and the trawl net in Shipwrecked

my thoughts for trawl net rework in DST:

1. craftable and placeable item ( like how you place a boat )

2. craft with reward recipe from Pearl or traded item ( materials need ropes, silk, boards )

3. at placing the net, it has delay time to start function, all wobsters in that area would be scared and run away

4. you have to throw the fish bait or something to lure wobsters trapped into your net, either wait for a very long time

5. each net has only one use

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