Can DST fans have a little patience please!

[CremeLover]

8 hours ago, Booklover said:

Although now iirc Wendy deals 1.55x more damage to enemies attacked by Abigail so technically if we take away Wendy's 25% less damage, we will get a boost of 30%. Wendy has now ascended over Wigfrid ladies and gentlemen

Where do you guys get the x1.55 multiplier?

ABIGAIL_VEX_DURATION = 2
ABIGAIL_VEX_DAMAGE_MOD = 1.1
ABIGAIL_VEX_GHOSTLYFRIEND_DAMAGE_MOD = 1.4

Looking at the files Abigail gives a buff of x1.1, and to Wendy players is x1.4.

Which multiplied by her basic damage multiplier of x0.75 equals a total of x1.05, which still means she does less damage.

Unless I'm missing something, she still does less damage to other mobs than the rest of the group (x1.1) by herself even with Abigail's aid.

[OMGkawaiiAngel]

8 hours ago, Dragonboooorn said:

Does word *uncompromising* is even means anything to you? Klei already make DST very easy, by buffing characters, adding moon island and etc, but yet, you still want Wes without any downside? Really? 

And yes, Default world supposed to be uncompromising, cause it`s canon, right? Were not supposed to change it or use specific character 

 

they clearly said that the ancient fuelweaver wouldn't be solo-able but on the first day, people were blowing him up with stacks of gunpowder and getting him stuck so he couldn't do anything else but a simple attack.

[QuartzBeam]

1 hour ago, CremeLover said:

Where do you guys get the x1.55 multiplier?

ABIGAIL_VEX_DURATION = 2
ABIGAIL_VEX_DAMAGE_MOD = 1.1
ABIGAIL_VEX_GHOSTLYFRIEND_DAMAGE_MOD = 1.4

Looking at the files Abigail gives a buff of x1.1, and to Wendy players is x1.4.

Which multiplied by her basic damage multiplier of x0.75 equals a total of x1.05, which still means she does less damage.

Unless I'm missing something, she still does less damage to other mobs than the rest of the group (x1.1) by herself even with Abigail's aid.

It appears that comparing Wendy's damage with the ghost petals vs. Wilson's damage without the ghost petals will show 55% more damage in the former case.

I can't check right now, because for some reason my DST files are not updated, despite the game running as it should, but I suspect the ghost petals are coded in such a way that both multiplier apply to Wendy. So she ends up dealing (1.1)(1.4) = 1.54x damage.

 

Edit: That's indeed the case. The debuff just makes enemies take 1.1x damage from everything.

Wendy, meanwhile, checks if the enemy has the debuff and gives herself a 1.4x multiplier, for a total of 1.54.

[MondayNight]

23 hours ago, AButteredPeanut said:

Abigail's dmg being tied to Wendy's health gave her alot of new uses and with the new tracking system I was able to accomplish tasks with Abby I'd never thought possible before.

Enumerate those "new uses" of so-called "glass-canon" HP-based Wendy as opposed to the damage output of "old Wendy" or the "new" day-cycle with Abi passive boon Wendy pls. Because numerically, even when you were in the 1-10 HP margin, "glass-canon" was under-performing.

 

23 hours ago, AButteredPeanut said:

I've managed to kill Dragonfly, Ancient Guardian and toadstool with Abby by my side dishing out her dps the whole time.

You could do the same thing, but arguably better, with "old" Wendy sans the "mandatory dangerous" [1-10] HP-limit for her as to get most efficient dmg-output from Abi in the "glass-canon" version. Current "new" day-cycle dmg based Abi with passive boon for Wendy clearly is mechanically stronger and outperforms. This without even taking into account Abi's elixirs.

 

23 hours ago, AButteredPeanut said:

The only difference ofc was hp management - keeping my hp below 50 at all times was an enjoyable mechanic ..

Why was it enjoyable? The subjective thrill of having a "constant close brush with death and still coming on top"? Because mechanically was clearly inferior.

 

23 hours ago, AButteredPeanut said:

Abby needs to have weaknesses just like any other character in the game - some are suited for fights better than others. Isn't it part of the learning curve of the character to know that Abby cant win fights against big monsters that have big AoE? And isn't it also part of the learning curve to know when it's a good time to summon Abby or not like when a menacing Deerclops is looming around the corner...

And she has. Both weakness and learning curve. Bulk of DST players can't even adapt to one of them.

Most of recent complains with Wendy and Abi rework were related to the Riled state not performing as best as when was first introduced. The duration and numbers given by elixirs. And that day-dusk-night dmg-cycle, a Wendy-Abi trademark, was scrapped in favor of a new mechanic (scaling of Abi dmg tied to Wendy HP) which in turn was actually promoting in player-base bulk a rather passive approach to fighting, letting Abi doing most-if-not-all the work on small mobs masses (i.e. Spiders) - and this aspect wasn't in-tune with neither Wendy supposed-personality nor implied lore (sisters helping each other).

 

23 hours ago, AButteredPeanut said:

That being said we don't have glass cannon Wendy anymore guys and I think we lost a good thing. I was finding so many extra uses for Abby and that was only within a week!

Again pls detail on those "so many extra uses" for "glass-canon" Abi as opposed to "old" one and current "new" one.

Because your linked videos are only small cuts seconds-long of 2 fights that are even better done now, when you don't need to have a [1-40] HP cap on Wendy, allowing a wider error-margin.

If all comes down to "the thrill of showing skill" then ok, a subjective try-hard matter not really directly tide to Wendy rework, and achievable in a myriad of other ways at personal level.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

people just want insta kill everything without being hitten...

[CremeLover]

1 hour ago, QuartzBeam said:

It appears that comparing Wendy's damage with the ghost petals vs. Wilson's damage without the ghost petals will show 55% more damage in the former case.

Let me look at the files again

This is from the combat script, this should the formula for calculating what a character should do with an attack

Disclaimer, I have glanced at this thing for a bit, and have no indept knowledge of how the entire combat engine is supposed to work, this is some quick reading.

        basedamage = this is the weapon damage, or the mount, or 1
        * (basemultiplier or 1) = specific damage multiplier, in the case of Wendy, is x0.75
        * self.externaldamagemultipliers:Get() = this is used for food buffs and Woodie's beaver form.
        * (multiplier or 1) = this is for area damage and seems to be used mostly by some bosses and octopuses
        * playermultiplier =playermultiplier is for damage towards players generally only applies for NPCs attacking players
        * pvpmultiplier = self explanatory
        * (self.customdamagemultfn ~= nil and self.customdamagemultfn(self.inst, target, weapon, multiplier) or 1) = this is used only for Wendy
        + (bonus or 0) = bonus seems to be used only for mounts

So if I understood this correctly, the formula goes as follows.

1*0.75*1*1*1*1*1.4(only when enemy has abigail debuff)+0

This is the formula for calculating basic damage of a character.

 

Abigail's buff of x1.1 however, is calculated on "damake taken" and not "damage given", which means they do indeed go separatedly, so Wendy's damage should be x1.155 instead of 1.05. Not sure if this was intentional.

If she deals 1.54, is because for some reason her debuff of x.75 isn't being taken into account, and I have yet to see why if that's the case.

[QuartzBeam]

@CremeLover The debuff affects the mob's combat component making them take 1.1x damage.

Wendy's prefab checks if the mob she is attacking has the debuff and alters her combat component to make her do 1.4x damage.

[CremeLover]

1 minute ago, QuartzBeam said:

@CremeLover The debuff affects the mob's combat component making them take 1.1x damage.

Wendy's prefab checks if the mob she is attacking has the debuff and alters her combat component to make her do 1.4x damage.

That is what I said, sorry, I had a very unfortunated accident and hit tab and space on my keyboard, instantly posting while I was half way through writing it, I edited it properly now.

[QuartzBeam]

15 minutes ago, CremeLover said:

Abigail's buff of x1.1 however, is calculated on "damake taken" and not "damage given", which means they do indeed go separatedly, so Wendy's damage should be x1.155 instead of 1.05. Not sure if this was intentional.

If she deals 1.54, is because for some reason her debuff of x.75 isn't being taken into account, and I have yet to see why if that's the case.

 

Well, I can't imagine them doing such extensive edits by accident.

As for the last part: yes, 1.54x is the multiplier she gets from the ghost petals alone, not her total damage multiplier.

[CremeLover]

7 minutes ago, QuartzBeam said:

Well, I can't imagine them doing such extensive edits by accident.

As for the last part: yes, 1.54x is the multiplier she gets from the ghost petals alone, not her total damage multiplier.

That is indeed the case, and I was wrong where I said she deal slighltly less damage, she actualy deals slightly more instead.

She does get x1.54 from the buff, but she should not be doing x1.54 times Wilson damage, but 1.155.

[AButteredPeanut]

To reiterate I'm not complaining about about new Wendy's refresh or the loss of glass cannon Wendy. I am fully aware Klei could have well planned to remove it on their own. 

My point being Abby's new mechanics as a whole made her a lot more flexible and gave her more survivability in my opinion particularly her tracking system which allowed her to stay close to you and disengage much faster. An example of this is the DFly fight no longer does she go on a rampage and try to kill all the lavae enraging the DFly too early instead she stays nice and safe by me. Something old Abby could never do. Another thing is she flys into mating beefalo? No problem slap on her speed boost and she practically teleports to you. Nice and safe!

As you might be thinking refreshed Wendy is still capable of all of this and you are right that why I'm not complaining! 

I understand we have been exposed to different comments on the Internet but from my prospective yet again I have seen a number of content creators absolutely ripping the refresh to shreds and its only been one day! I don't want to source it because I feel like that's calling people out which isn't my intent. 

All I'm asking is for people to give it a try. The changes are bigger than meets the eye and people might learn something new once they try adapt to the changes. 

We all want what's best for Wendy and we all clearly have different things in mind too. But there is also a lot going on in the world atm so can we please just let klei play this out organically and for some to be a little less harsh on the criticism is all I'm asking as someone said in this forum intense criticism can lead to intense changes and the results may end up with no one happy. 

I appreciate the reply VERUS and I actually agree with a lot of your points glass cannon Wendy was probably on her way out regardless as it didn't entirely suit her playstyle or lore. 

I was trying to quote you VERUS but I messed it up I'm on my phone plus I'm new to these forums sorry 

[Wytera]

For the majority of posts and threads regarding the Wendy rework and subsequent patches, I did not feel as if there were a lot of "toxic" posts. There were definitely posts there where people simply left their opinions overall instead of going into detail on why they were upset, but those were largely outweighed by the number of constructive posts, such as QuartzBeam and CremeLover for their calculations and analysis on the different Ectoherbology potions.

As well-meaning as this thread is, I do feel that more than enough people who replied to the rework thread actually did spend a significant enough amount of time trying out Wendy and Abigail's changes.

[Mike23Ua]

Just remember that people playing on an Xbox and PS4 can’t give you accurate down to the point precise damage numbers and all that fancy stuff- The best Console players can do is take a roughly estimated guess.

As for Glass Canon Wendy... while a Unique Feature- It’s something that just doesn’t BELONG on WENDY.. in fact it belongs more on someone like WIGFRID Who can be seen as taking her Method acting of being a Viking Warrior a little too far... and the closer she gets to Death, the more Enraged she becomes to avoid joining Valhalla.

Not only that- But removing the feature From Wendy still gives Wendy enough of a unique new Refresh... and Saves that feature for someone else in the future more fitting of it.