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Can DST fans have a little patience please!


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So guys you probably know what this will be about its the Wendy refresh. Look when the rework came out about Wendy I wasn't jumping up and down about it either.

However I accepted that these were big changes and I needed take the time to learn what these changes actually meant for the character and her playstyle. Abigail's dmg being tied to Wendy's health gave her alot of new uses and with the new tracking system I was able to accomplish tasks with Abby I'd never thought possible before. I've managed to kill Dragonfly, Ancient Guardian and toadstool with Abby by my side dishing out her dps the whole time. And I'm not a great player so the mechanics I was using were nothing different than if you had to solo the boss as any other character. The only difference ofc was hp management - keeping my hp below 50 at all times was an enjoyable mechanic and, let's be honest, with any boss you fight you are probably going to bring dem honey hams with you. So what's the difference?

I've seen a number of people demand that Abigail needs to be able to fight normal giants like Deerclops or Bearger to make it easier for newer players... But why? Abby needs to have weaknesses just like any other character in the game - some are suited for fights better than others. Isn't it part of the learning curve of the character to know that Abby cant win fights against big monsters that have big AoE? And isn't it also part of the learning curve to know when it's a good time to summon Abby or not like when a menacing Deerclops is looming around the corner... :D

That being said we don't have glass cannon Wendy anymore guys and I think we lost a good thing. I was finding so many extra uses for Abby and that was only within a week! I'm certain if we were a little more patient many people more creative than myself would have found all sorts of cheese/tactics and it would have been awesome! And as for the tonics yes we know they weren't great but they could have been gradually tweaked as we got to learn the character!

So please guys be patient with this refresh, be creative, try stress testing it and after some time you can deliver really detailed feedback and we'll be closer to perfecting our dear beloved sisters!

For anyone curious, if I'm allowed.... here are two links to quickly demonstrate the strats I was using for the bosses. Its the same kiting dodge you would do as any character facing Dragonfly and as for toadstool, you would ideally move to the side without boomshrooms anyway even if Abby wasn't there :D 

https://www.twitch.tv/abutterypeanut/clip/ImpossibleDeadSnakeAMPEnergyCherry?filter=clips&range=7d&sort=time

https://www.twitch.tv/abutterypeanut/clip/BlindingRoughPigeonJKanStyle?filter=clips&range=7d&sort=time

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Overpowered.. needed Nerf, Glad it’s fixed.

Jokes aside- Running around on low Health was something meant for a harder character choice... something that made Wendy go from Easy to Play to Low Health Hard Character.

Not a good change. She’s supposed to feel comfortable in the Dark, Which is why Abigail deals more damage to protect her in dark.. this is easier to manage then being below 10 Hp constantly and keeps her in line as an easier character choice.

Its like saying Wes should have his own Abigail Flower to kill things for him.. it takes a character that’s supposed to have trouble staying alive, and makes him easy mode.

Whenever I discuss Wes ideas I NEVER say make him a lot Easier to play... He should still have trouble staying alive.. and that’s part of who Wes is.. To make him have Abigail powers would be to change the characters entire identity.

And as they have shown with Wormwood & Warly Characters can be fleshed out and be made fun to play as.. while still being challenging.

This thread isn’t about Wes though (although at this point I’ve come to the conclusion he will be Klei’s most controversial Refresh..)

My point is that they know what they’re doing, they know how to make a character feel new and refreshed, but without stripping them of their entire identity of what we expect them to be.

in the end result though- Everything is entirely up to Klei.. and what they want to do with their Characters.

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I don't understand why people want characters to have no flaws, and be way too strong.

Characters like original Woodie and Wormwood, and Maxwell are great partly BECAUSE of their major flaws, when you take a character like Wendy who is worse off in boss combat but makes up for it with being really proficient with smaller mob combat/group encounters, and then give her and abby the ability to fight bosses better than the average character, you are taking away the limitations that requires one to modify their play style, and get some unique value out of a character.

 

Wormwood without the "no health from foods" downside would obviously be "better" from a power stance, but he would be a lot less fun to play.

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Although now iirc Wendy deals 1.55x more damage to enemies attacked by Abigail so technically if we take away Wendy's 25% less damage, we will get a boost of 30%. Wendy has now ascended over Wigfrid ladies and gentlemen.

So technically they did buff Wendy's ability to kill bosses and this works even better with allies because they too get a 1.1x boost to their damage against the boss.

Screenshot_2020-03-27-08-34-52.png

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15 minutes ago, Ogrecakes said:

I don't understand why people want characters to have no flaws, and be way too strong.

Characters like original Woodie and Wormwood, and Maxwell are great partly BECAUSE of their major flaws, when you take a character like Wendy who is worse off in boss combat but makes up for it with being really proficient with smaller mob combat/group encounters, and then give her and abby the ability to fight bosses better than the average character, you are taking away the limitations that requires one to modify their play style, and get some unique value out of a character.

 

Wormwood without the "no health from foods" downside would obviously be "better" from a power stance, but he would be a lot less fun to play.

Ultimately the game world itself and the server settings you apply should be the most challenging part of the game, not the character you choose.

Just because you see characters Downsides disappearing doesn’t mean that they are making the game any Easier.

For all We know they could be Deep into the finishing touches of creating a Totally Uncompromising Mode for DST.. 

I personally don’t see anything at all that’s challenging about Wurt, she’s got way too much good perks and her only downside is “Is a Vegetarian” I brought that up the day Wurt was released- It is now a few days from April now and no changes have been made to give Wurt any harsher downsides.

My conclusion? Klei designs this game with its FUTURE in Mind, so yeah to me and you maybe We don’t see any downsides for Woodie, Wurt & Wendy- Hell Wes May not even have downsides when they’re done with him.

For all we know this could be a trend where they start phasing out Downsides almost altogether and instead focus on making the game world itself plenty challenging enough all on its very own.

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Dont mistake me guys :? as per the title of this forum I'm addressing the DST community not klei directly. I've been a great fan of Klei for a long time. Not only do I trust their judgement but I also respect their game and how they make changes in ways I never see coming. 

I'm not annoyed at all that glass cannon Wendy was removed if that's Klei's will so be it. I just wanted to address how quickly it happened and I feel the toxicity from the community might have been a huge factor in this. Especially when Klei wrote along the lines of "we appreciate our passionate fans dissecting everything we do" there is a lot going on in the world atm. So I think we just need to be patient with what we got and fully explore the new possibilities this rework has given us before everyone starts complaining. I personally felt I found out a lot in 1 week if the community spend more time exploring the possibilities of glass cannon Wendy we probably could have discovered a lot more stuff we could do. 

So as I said before "So please guys be patient with this refresh, be creative, try stress testing it and after some time you can deliver really detailed feedback and we'll be closer to perfecting our dear beloved sisters!"  :D this is addressed to the DST community not Klei I'm sure they have their own plans in mind that'll blow us away ;)

And Haha yes more than likely this whole event will repeat itself if a wes refresh does indeed come out. 

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2 minutes ago, Booklover said:

Bruh please stop referencing your past posts that have gone horribly wrong to the point where most of the community basically ganged up on you.

Meh, say what you want.. That’s your opinion and your totally entitled to it. I don’t feel “Ganged up on” at all though so I’ve no idea where you even got that from.

I reference past posts because a lot of times I forget that I’ve already said something similar to that, That’s usually why a episodic TV series will show past clips of something that’s happened on previous episodes, BECAUSE you will forget it.

But anyways... There’s always going to be people who like something, and then other people who don’t like it.

Thats the Internet, and people are entitled to have their own opinions. Klei will likely even be hearing a lot more praise/complaints from more and more fans of their games, due to more people being at home and playing games due to Covid-19

I don’t know what life is like for you guys where your living but over here- School has been straight up cancelled all the way up until September.

Where will those kids and teens go during all that time? Playing video games, and talking about stuff on the Internet and spending ALOT more time At home.

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47 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Ultimately the game world itself and the server settings you apply should be the most challenging part of the game, not the character you choose.

Just because you see characters Downsides disappearing doesn’t mean that they are making the game any Easier.

For all We know they could be Deep into the finishing touches of creating a Totally Uncompromising Mode for DST.. 

I personally don’t see anything at all that’s challenging about Wurt, she’s got way too much good perks and her only downside is “Is a Vegetarian” I brought that up the day Wurt was released- It is now a few days from April now and no changes have been made to give Wurt any harsher downsides.

My conclusion? Klei designs this game with its FUTURE in Mind, so yeah to me and you maybe We don’t see any downsides for Woodie, Wurt & Wendy- Hell Wes May not even have downsides when they’re done with him.

For all we know this could be a trend where they start phasing out Downsides almost altogether and instead focus on making the game world itself plenty challenging enough all on its very own.

image.png.3a58272165f42009c3641a0381af0eed.png

Does word *uncompromising* is even means anything to you? Klei already make DST very easy, by buffing characters, adding moon island and etc, but yet, you still want Wes without any downside? Really? 

And yes, Default world supposed to be uncompromising, cause it`s canon, right? Were not supposed to change it or use specific character 

52 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Ultimately the game world itself and the server settings you apply should be the most challenging part of the game, not the character you choose.

 

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People forget that the intensity of their criticism can influence a change in development. Mild criticism such as "I'm not a fan of how spiders attack so slowly" would get a change that makes them attack every one second, whereas a large criticism like "Who are the morons that made them attack so slow?! Everyone thinks it sucks, so it needs to change!" (obviously an exaggeration, but you get the point) could warrant a change that makes spiders attack non-stop as a result (also an exaggeration).

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2 hours ago, Booklover said:

Although now iirc Wendy deals 1.55x more damage to enemies attacked by Abigail so technically if we take away Wendy's 25% less damage, we will get a boost of 30%. Wendy has now ascended over Wigfrid ladies and gentlemen.

So technically they did buff Wendy's ability to kill bosses and this works even better with allies because they too get a 1.1x boost to their damage against the boss.

If that's correct then either they should buff Wigfrid later or tweak Wendy now.

___________

2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

I personally don’t see anything at all that’s challenging about Wurt

On 1/5/2020 at 1:53 AM, Mike23Ua said:

If you join a server in Mid-Winter as Wurt you fully deserve to die..

Let that sink in. Source:

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1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

Snip

 

2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Snip

Spoiler

Sure, you're entitled to your own opinion. We can respect that.

But we're discussing the Wendy reworks here, and here you are again with discussions about unrelated topics regarding Wes and Wurt and Klei's design scheme, which, btw, is none of your business to begin with.

If you have nothing useful to offer a thread except your off-topic opinion which derails the thread again... please, don't even comment. 

We can no longer count the colossal amount of times you've posted off-topic content in a thread that doesn't require such. It offers nothing useful to the discussion at hand, and since its so long, clogs the thread, making it tiresome for people looking for serious content to find the content that they're looking for.

On another note:

I think the Wendy reworks went well as the community constructively dissected her stats and changes. I would not say that the players would be impatient as their comments are valid, rational reactions towards the said changes.

Compare that to the Woodie rework, where people flat out insulted Klei by saying "they [Klei] didn't even play their own game", if I recall correctly, among other accusations I fail to recall, aside from spamming FIX WOODIE everywhere. While said reactions may be understandable considering the overall quality of the rework, these accusations were ultimately impatient and offensive. There are better ways to let one's dissent be known.

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There isn't much low-health-Wendy could do that Wendy & Abi can't do now - the difference is that it isn't either Wendy or Abi doing something, but rather them together - which was an element of the re-work that Klei obviously desired.  Managing Abi is still important in boss fights now as it was with low-health-Wendy, the difference now is you're helping too.

Unless I'm missing something...  In which case - feel free to point out what I've missed.  What can low-health-Wendy do that Wendy & Abi can't do together now?

Not that dealing with the risk of playing at low health is a problem mind you, I liked that part - but it just doesn't suit Wendy.  And if you liked that, just keep an eye out on future DST characters and reworks because I'm sure we'll see that pop up again!  Only this time, with a character themed around that risk / reward play rather than using occult magic to stay close to one's sister.

tl/dr; In the end I don't think it was the impatient response from the community or the lack of our innovation with the new rework that ended low-health-Wendy.  It was that it really didn't fit her thematic.

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2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

I don’t feel “Ganged up on” at all though so I’ve no idea where you even got that from.

Well while you don't feel "ganged up on", it sure looks that way. Everytime you send something like "Wurt too good, pls nerf" it instantly gets shot down by everyone.

Like, you literally said that "I don't see how having no downsides makes the game easier" and then the second paragraph after that you stated that "Wurt isn't challenging because she has way too many good perks and only 1 downside", requesting for worse downsides on her.

3 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Just because you see characters Downsides disappearing doesn’t mean that they are making the game any Easier.

 

3 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

I personally don’t see anything at all that’s challenging about Wurt, she’s got way too much good perks and her only downside is “Is a Vegetarian” I brought that up the day Wurt was released- It is now a few days from April now and no changes have been made to give Wurt any harsher downsides.

Idk man, seems "fishy" to me.

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56 minutes ago, Sweaper said:

If that's correct then either they should buff Wigfrid later or tweak Wendy now.

___________

Let that sink in. Source:

I stand by that too, if you join a server mid winter as ANYONE not just Wurt... you fully deserve to die.

in Fact I flat out LOCK My Servers with a Password during Summer and play through the Entire Season ALONE- Play on an Xbox and guarantee you will instantly understand why.

People will either Unknowingly... or Intentionally out of Meanness Let Wildfires spread. Defiantly NOT a Season you want to invite random noobs into.

Wendys Rework is better now because the low HP thing encouraged you to sit on the Sidelines watching Abigail fight while you were within maybe 10 hp from dying to having a FLINT land on your head.

Now with the 2 Second damage boost petals it encourages you to fight alongside Abigail which is Overall the intention.

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3 hours ago, Booklover said:

Bruh please stop referencing your past posts that have gone horribly wrong to the point where most of the community basically ganged up on you.

Wow.....

Someone defended themselves! What a harsh concept to grasp!

1 hour ago, Booklover said:

Well while you don't feel "ganged up on", it sure looks that way. Everytime you send something like "Wurt too good, pls nerf" it instantly gets shot down by everyone.

Like, you literally said that "I don't see how having no downsides makes the game easier" and then the second paragraph after that you stated that "Wurt isn't challenging because she has way too many good perks and only 1 downside", requesting for worse downsides on her.

 

Idk man, seems "fishy" to me.

I'm actually on Mike's side on this one you are being annoying. If you have a problem PM him. Don't clog the forums and cal out Mike. Chill out.

56 minutes ago, FuffledBeeQueen said:

Finally someone else speaking the truth

Agreed! I want a hard-mode for DST REALLY bad. 

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5 hours ago, Ogrecakes said:

I don't understand why people want characters to have no flaws, and be way too strong.

Characters like original Woodie and Wormwood, and Maxwell are great partly BECAUSE of their major flaws, when you take a character like Wendy who is worse off in boss combat but makes up for it with being really proficient with smaller mob combat/group encounters, and then give her and abby the ability to fight bosses better than the average character, you are taking away the limitations that requires one to modify their play style, and get some unique value out of a character.

 

Wormwood without the "no health from foods" downside would obviously be "better" from a power stance, but he would be a lot less fun to play.

The thing is: low dmg multiplier is probably the most tedious downside in the game since it means wasting more time and resources while being good againts hordes of bees/spider is not very impressive since they're already fast, easy to kill and their loot stops being important very fast.

Wormwood can balance his not-health-thing by using poop or other stuff, they're abundant + having the upside of being able to plant seeds in the ground (which is more unique and useful than killing spiders a bit faster) while there weren't too many ways to make up for Wendy's multiplier before (I still think that this is the case tho)

You will really miss Wortox's hopping or Woormwood's farms after picking other character but i don't really miss Abigail since there are a lot of ways to farms what is supposed to be her specialitty (And personally, Webber's civil wars or just one-hitting a spider as Wolfgang is more fun).

And i agree about the old rework being better, In every site i have seen (YT, Reddit, here..) people were just asking for them to increase the numbers and not going to the old damage system. I really doubt that they did it for complaints here.

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1 hour ago, GetRektKids said:

Wow.....

Someone defended themselves! What a harsh concept to grasp!

I'm actually on Mike's side on this one you are being annoying. If you have a problem PM him. Don't clog the forums and cal out Mike. Chill out.

Agreeing with someone does not give you the license to aggressively post demeaning, potentially insulting statements towards people who disagree.

While I agree that @Booklover may have not given the best of responses to Mike, either, I suggest that you practice what you preach as well. If you have a problem with him, PM him. Don't clog the forums and call out Booklover. Chill out.

Furthermore, this does not take away the fact that Mike's posts are, again, off-topic and clog the thread. I wouldn't be opposed to him making his own threads to discuss there instead of flooding the rest of the threads with off-topic stuff.

Lastly, I believe everyone - myself included - has done enough calling out behaviour. This shall be my final post regarding this matter, and if anyone still wishes to bring this up with me they can do so in DMs. Let us not derail this thread further.

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13 minutes ago, Minitte said:

Yea i think the changes were a bit too quick but majority of players seemed to need it. Below 50% hp is kinda uncomfortable for most players i guess.

It’s just not a feature Befitting to Wendy...

honestly it seems more like Wigfrid feature than a Wendy One... Wigfrids Method acting that she is a Viking Warrior.. we ALL Know in Viking Lore they don’t go down without a fight.

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6 hours ago, Booklover said:

Although now iirc Wendy deals 1.55x more damage to enemies attacked by Abigail so technically if we take away Wendy's 25% less damage, we will get a boost of 30%. Wendy has now ascended over Wigfrid ladies and gentlemen.

So technically they did buff Wendy's ability to kill bosses and this works even better with allies because they too get a 1.1x boost to their damage against the boss.

3 hours ago, Sweaper said:

If that's correct then either they should buff Wigfrid later or tweak Wendy now.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but those percentages aren't additive, but multiplicative (not sure if I'm using the correct terminology here). What I mean is that +55% and -25% damage isn't added, resulting in +30% damage, but is multiplied, resulting in [1,55*0,75=1,1625] roughly +16% damage. Which is clearly less than Wigfrid's 25% bonus, but a nice improvement, especially for a character with strength lower than the average.

 

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8 hours ago, Ogrecakes said:

I don't understand why people want characters to have no flaws, and be way too strong.

Characters like original Woodie and Wormwood, and Maxwell are great partly BECAUSE of their major flaws, when you take a character like Wendy who is worse off in boss combat but makes up for it with being really proficient with smaller mob combat/group encounters, and then give her and abby the ability to fight bosses better than the average character, you are taking away the limitations that requires one to modify their play style, and get some unique value out of a character.

 

Wormwood without the "no health from foods" downside would obviously be "better" from a power stance, but he would be a lot less fun to play.

I'm not sure what you mean exactly in regards to Wendy having no downside.  She is going to be better at some bosses because Abi lends her a good amount of damage to the fight, however there are fights where Abi is going to need to be put away, or simply can't help.  Some bosses like Bearger just tear through Abi without pause, and that 25% damage penalty is going to come right back for Wendy.  Abi still won't fight shadow creatures either, which makes me glad I don't have to hang out at 1-10 health anymore lol

I might misunderstand your post - but Wendy does have a downside still.  Its less pronounced, but its there - and also Wendy has always been an easier character to play so this isn't out of character for Wendy...  If you wanna talk about characters without downsides lets talk Wolfgang lol

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