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Lukmendes    69
On 26/03/2020 at 12:49 AM, Shosuko said:

I love it!  This sounds like a great adjustment!  If you guys wanna give stats that scale on health, give them to Wes!  Make him be like the reverse Wolfgang, where he can perform well the lower his health is.  Wes does "have trouble staying alive" afterall, and I think it would suit a challenge character to have such a mechanic.

I'm with you that the health scaling was interesting, but I just don't feel it works for Wendy - a character that has typically been an easier character, not a challenge character.

Perhaps if they used this type of mechanic with Wes it would interest you~  I know it would interest me.

Wes having that instead could be interesting, what do you think of his balloons lowering his HP instead of sanity to easily lower his HP without being attacked?

Then again, losing a way to lower sanity easily for nightmare fuel farming would hurt him... Specially since higher damage just means he's going to kill faster and not actually make him more unique.

 

Either way, love this update, and kudos to you guys for managing to do it so fast while staying at home.

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Steve Raptor    278
On 26.03.2020 at 11:53 AM, Steve Raptor said:

The petal debuff is mostly aimed at single targets. However against bosses, it will remain useless. Bosses deal 100+ damage to Abi per swing, and nearly all of them use AOE attacks, so she will die very quickly anyway, no tunics will help her here.

I think that the defensive tunic should give Abi some sort of damage mitigation, that would go a long way to make Abi a much more reliable combat oriented NPC assistant.

The point is not to make Abi solo bosses, but to allow her to give meaningful contribution to the fight without dying in 3 attacks.

She is a dedicated combat NPC, and she comes with a very big penalty to Wendy's damage, so she should be at least a good all-rounder that can tackle all kind of opponents: From spiders to bosses.

Another option to balance Abigail came to my mind regarding bosses:

As of now bosses deal 100% more damage to NPCs.

For Abigail, its possible to make an exception and allow bosses to deal normal damage to her (e.g. Deerclops will deal 75 damage per strike instead of 150), this will also make cure-all Tunic useful for boss fights.

So, a quick math, Deerclops attacks for 75 damage every 3 seconds, cure- all heals 20 per second, so 60 health:

so Net damage that Abigail receives is 15.

Bearger hits 100 damage per strike, so net damage Abi receives is 100-60=40 with Cure-all tunic.

So the end result is Abigail on one hand still receives damage and can't kill bosses by her self, but on the other hand she lives long enough to contribute to boss fights, this will help Wendy a lot vs (at least seasonal) bosses especially when Solo.

And the Cure-all tunic also becomes extremely useful.

This will allow Abigail to contribute in boss fights, and I think requires minimal coding effort from Klei's part.

Edited by Steve Raptor
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haieku    8
On 3/25/2020 at 6:04 PM, ButterStuffed said:

ALSO, any chance some changes to the speed potion could be made? Unless there is some grand use for super fast Abigail that I am unaware of it just seems not useful for any real situation.

I've been using the Vigor tonic to get an extra hit in with Abby before kiting with her on Soothe with certain enemies.

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ArubaroBeefalo    2688
11 minutes ago, Steve Raptor said:

Another option to balance Abigail came to my mind regarding bosses:

As of now bosses deal 100% more damage to NPCs.

For Abigail, its possible to make an exception and allow bosses to deal normal damage to her (e.g. Deerclops will deal 75 damage per strike instead of 150), this will also make cure-all Tunic useful for boss fights.

So, a quick math, Deerclops attacks for 75 damage every 3 seconds, cure- all heals 20 per second, so 60 health:

so Net damage that Abigail receives is 15.

Bearger hits 100 damage per strike, so net damage Abi receives is 100-60=40 with Cure-all tunic.

So the end result is Abigail on one hand still receives damage and can't kill bosses by her self, but on the other hand she lives long enough to contribute to boss fights, this will help Wendy a lot vs (at least seasonal) bosses especially when Solo.

And the Cure-all tunic also becomes extremely useful.

This will allow Abigail to contribute in boss fights, and I think requires minimal coding effort from Klei's part.

We talked about it but i change my mind. She is extremly good at this moment. She needs a real downside and dealing with deerclops alone with 75%damsge isnt a real downside when you have infiny amount of glands and hambats so for me its just perfect.

She can help in some raid bosses making it less tedious but cant help with treeguards and seasonal bosses so it requires a little more preparation

Actually its a little op with the new controls and having more damsge than before rework and a debuff to make wendy hit harder (and everything, imagine bunny army with that debuff on the boss)

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Steve Raptor    278
13 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

We talked about it but i change my mind. She is extremly good at this moment. She needs a real downside and dealing with deerclops alone with 75%damsge isnt a real downside when you have infiny amount of glands and hambats so for me its just perfect.

She can help in some raid bosses making it less tedious but cant help with treeguards and seasonal bosses so it requires a little more preparation

Actually its a little op with the new controls and having more damage than before rework and a debuff to make wendy hit harder (and everything, imagine bunny army with that debuff on the boss)

75% damage is a pretty real downside.

Deerclops is the easy example, since you can just face tank him while standing on a campfire.

The rest of them  takes a lot more time since you need to kite.

She can't help against raid bosses because all of them AOE and she will get vaporized on the spot..

For the price of 25% less damage, having a combat oriented NPC that is only effective against small mobs (spiders, bees, hounds) is very lackluster.

At this current state it feels like Willow power- crept Wendy in every aspect.

in addition to that, since she was and already effective against small mobs, most of the tunics are useless and not worth the effort to create as a result.

Edited by Steve Raptor
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ArubaroBeefalo    2688
44 minutes ago, Steve Raptor said:

75% damage is a pretty real downside.

Deerclops is the easy example, since you can just face tank him while standing on a campfire.

The rest of them  takes a lot more time since you need to kite.

She can't help against raid bosses because all of them AOE and she will get vaporized on the spot..

For the price of 25% less damage, having a combat oriented NPC that is only effective against small mobs (spiders, bees, hounds) is very lackluster.

At this current state it feels like Willow power- crept Wendy in every aspect.

in addition to that, since she was and already effective against small mobs, most of the tunics are useless and not worth the effort to create as a result.

Deerclops its just easy, just a few hits more. I always kite bosses and she has no trouble with deer.

In raid bosses she can help, did you try her? bee queen fight its just dumb how good she is. She can help a little with klaus before killing the deers. And im pretty sure that she cant receive damage from toadstool spores so free damage until he starts to make earthquakes

She was always oriented to have a bad time against bosses, you have her help to grind a lot of faster so you can be more prepare in less time. Also having a help with hounds its just fantastic, 0 traps crafted so you keep material and you dont have to worry ever because she will always be ready to be summoned. 

You can have all the hambats, glands, etc do you want but better buff her because dragonfly will take a little of time (and even in this fight maybe she can help, i didnt try this fight yet and for that i dont talk without knowing :) )

 

Tonics are great and are not grindy, you can farm glory mournings meanwhile you farm silk.

The speed boost helps a lot with mactusk, the shield makes her almost invincible against hordes, the new damage tonic its just to much damage, the healing elixir makes her able to tank even bosses for few seconds

And having a character who farm little mobs its so usefull (look at woodie) because of the time consuming. In minutes i have enough silk for the bee queen fight and other crafts when with other characters you need to stay few days fighting. And same for pigs, you can just go yolo and kill an entire village with no effort.Do you want healing food? Just faceroll killing merms in the swamp

Also small mobs are the most dangerous for being in high numbers or you dont find abigail useful against monkeys?

 

I cant believe that people wants more buff on wendy... i guess for that tye most used mods in the store are the mods that makes the game easier...

 

Edited by ArubaroBeefalo
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Steve Raptor    278
13 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

Deerclops its just easy, just a few hits more. I always kite bosses and she has no trouble with deer.

In raid bosses she can help, did you try her? bee queen fight its just dumb how good she is. She can help a little with klaus before killing the deers

She was always oriented to have a bad time against bosses, you have her help to grind a lot of faster so you can be more prepare in less time. Also having a help with hounds its just fantastic, 0 traps crafted so you keep material and you dont have to worry ever because she will always be ready to be summoned. 

You can have all the hambats, glands, etc do you want but better buff her because dragonfly will take a little of time (and even in this fight maybe she can help, i didnt try this fight yet and for that i dont talk without knowing :) )

 

Yes I did try her against seasonal bosses, not against bee queen though.

You don't kill the Deers in Klaus fights, this will cause him to enrage and make the fight a lot harder.

Using glands to heal during bossfights is a terrible idea, you get more damage than you can heal and you have no time to attack at all since your busy healing instead of whacking. Having infinite amount of healing or weapons has nothing to do with Wendy's performance vs bosses and single targets.

There are characters in DST that do everything Abi does but better, namely: Willow, Webber and even Wurt.

When you get into the late game (after 1 cycle of seasons) there is little need for Abi since farming small mobs is done by farms or other means (bunny farms etc..), bossing becomes a major attraction in the late game. Having a character that brings nothing to the table except a 25% damage penalty is not really helpful.

I guess the only thing shes still useful for is fighting hounds.

25% less damage means longer fights, which means more supplies, higher chance to die, going insane etc...

You are underestimating the penalty.   

 

Edited by Steve Raptor
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ArubaroBeefalo    2688
1 minute ago, Steve Raptor said:

Yes I did try her against seasonal bosses, not against bee queen though.

You don't kill the Deers in Klaus fights, this will cause him to enrage and make the fight a lot harder.

Using glands to heal during bossfights is a terrible idea, you get more damage than you can heal and you have no time to attack at all since your busy healing instead of whacking. Having infinite amount of healing or weapons has nothing to do with Wendy's performance vs bosses and single targets.

There are characters in DST that do everything Abi does but better, namely: Willow, Webber and even Wurt.

When you get into the late game (after 1 cycle of seasons) there is little need for Abi since farming small mobs is done by farms or other means (bunny farms etc..), bossing becomes a major attraction in the late game. Having a character that brings nothing to the table except a 25% damage penalty is not really helpful.

I guess the only thing shes still useful for is fighting hounds.

25% less damage means longer fights, which means more supplies, higher chance to die, going insane etc...

You are underestimating the penalty.   

 

Then you should try it before asking for buffs.

Im totally ok with her downside, if abi can help in boss fight she will not have any downside, even she will be just a stupid character to faceroll with

Who said to heal you with  glands in boss fights? 

If you want damage to kill bosses pick wolfgang al let people enjoy having damage debuff.  

I played a lot wes, i know how works the penalty. 

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YumoS    280

i love the changes! Now Wendy can fight alongside her sister and they can defend eachother. thanks klei!

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Shosuko    2052
10 hours ago, Steve Raptor said:

Yes I did try her against seasonal bosses, not against bee queen though.

You don't kill the Deers in Klaus fights, this will cause him to enrage and make the fight a lot harder.

Using glands to heal during bossfights is a terrible idea, you get more damage than you can heal and you have no time to attack at all since your busy healing instead of whacking. Having infinite amount of healing or weapons has nothing to do with Wendy's performance vs bosses and single targets.

There are characters in DST that do everything Abi does but better, namely: Willow, Webber and even Wurt.

When you get into the late game (after 1 cycle of seasons) there is little need for Abi since farming small mobs is done by farms or other means (bunny farms etc..), bossing becomes a major attraction in the late game. Having a character that brings nothing to the table except a 25% damage penalty is not really helpful.

I guess the only thing shes still useful for is fighting hounds.

25% less damage means longer fights, which means more supplies, higher chance to die, going insane etc...

You are underestimating the penalty.   

 

Bearger and MooseGoose are off limits, but she is very helpful against Deerclops, Dragonfly, and Bee Queen.  I still need to try out more bosses.

Deerclops - just give her a big heal potion and light a lvl3 campfire, face tank him and deer clear done.

Dragonfly - dfly is single target attacks, just be careful when using pan flute that Abi isn't still attacking her.  Use passive mode so she leaves fight when you do, not riled up mode.  You won't deal enough damage to stun her but Abi helps plenty during this fight.

Bee Queen - you gotta watch her health.  She'll need a few big heal potions, and you'll need your bee hats and perogies just like the old wall tactic, pretty easy fight.  Just keep attacking bee and let Abi handle the grumbles.  I haven't tried with a shield potion instead, it might be good because of how many grumbles there are and it lasts a day so you can give it to her before you start the fight.  Anyway - bee queen is an easy clear for Wendy + Abi (especially since wall method is much more tedious and difficult).  Just like dfly, bee queen is single target attacks that favor players so you easily tank the boss for Abi.

And yeah - 25% damage penalty does suck when Abi has to be put away for her safety.  But that's her downside... and I'm okay with that.  You can still clear the bosses it just takes a bit more time.  Also while you can set up farms for different creatures well enough, Abi is probably the best auto-farm girl in the game <3  We're talking bae#1.  With Abi you don't need to set up farms, you just set up pens, and Abi farms for you.  Give her a vigor mortis and throw her into a pen of 13 bunnymen, its great <3

Edited by Shosuko
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Charlie Dark    3510
On 3/26/2020 at 9:24 PM, Mike23Ua said:

OMG!!!! I just had a great Idea Can you give it to Charlie?!?! :D (I know you guys have been thinking about making her Playable..) If (Or When) she becomes Playable.. this would be an Excellent feature to Apply to her-

Think of it as like- when at high health she’s the happy go lucky human Charlie we know.., but when dangerously close to dying the Dark Nightmare Side enrages and takes her over.

E323B1EE-165E-43B5-82D8-1F25CB30C03C.png

I wish this every day too..(that she becomes a character) Maybe someday definitely not now it's too soon... I'll be hopeful. They can't just abandon such a lore heavy and important to the story character and only leave her in the trailers... Am I right Mr Scott?!

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