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Mysterious box    198

So I've been thinking about this for a long time now and honestly I feel like wurt should get another look over at some point I love the character thematically and play it a lot but at the same time I can't ignore the fact that wurt doesn't really offer anything when compared with other characters be it to herself or to others.

The issues with wurt kinda stand as

-merms do nothing worthwhile while being slightly more annoying to manage

-while wurt can live outside the swamp due to the fish change in turn of the tide building houses is extremely time consuming if she doesn't live near a pond leaving her fate to world gen

-wurts structures require massive effort to produce but since they offer little to no help to a group wurts mainly end up going solo or ignoring them altogether to help the team do useful things

-wurts personal perks offer very little benefit and in some cases are completely useless like in the case of her strong grip one that only triggers on high wetness

 

Now I regret to admit I don't really have any good solution on how to improve wurt I do like the character but I wish she had a perk that had some impact rather than just a feeling of immersion so I decided to make this post to see if anyone had any ideas on how to improve wurt or maybe I'm just missing some big picture if so give me some cool wurt strats

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Mike23Ua    5229

I don’t know how people play this game on PC... or in Dedicated Official Servers so Maybe my point of view does not Apply to you.

Xbox One does not have Dedicated Servers- As a result game sessions usually only last a few hours before the host leaves the game, when the host leaves it instantly kicks all players off the server.

we also only have servers capable of holding a maximum of 6 players. So finding food as Wurt is never an Issue for us, even during Winter.. food left untouched and unpicked never spoils- so just leave it in its natural location until you absolutely need it.

Wurt on Xbox One can be incredibly Overpowered- Because Of the above mentioned things she really has no serious downside like.. at all.

Meanwhile- She moves faster on Swamp Turf, Can see Swamp Dangers, can craft her own Merm Army, she’s Immune to her tools getting too wet that they slip out of her hands, she can craft Merm disguises so her non-Merm friends can fit in with her Merm Buddies.. 

The way I play Wurt is I go find a massive swamp with a 5-7 pre-built Shacks set up there- and then I build my own Merm Kingdom on top of that. Anyone you don’t want in your Swamp is going to be violently punched to death.

But what does she offer as a Team? Well the strong grip means she doesn’t need the Eyebrella so give that to someone like WX78 who actually needs it.. and the ability to disguise people so they don’t get punched to death by a swarm of angry Merms can be incredibly OP in its own rights.

As Wurt you can also give any Merm you see a Veggie or a Fish pet and they will become befriended following you around like Pigmen- Wurt can actually save tool Durability by Hitting a Tree with an Axe or a Rock with a Pickaxe one time and letting her Merm Followers finish the job for her.

A completely useless feature I guess if you have an Overpowered Maxwell who does that job more effectively in your server.

But I did say that with over 16+ playable characters (and growing) and with a cap on only 6 people in the game.. not every role is going to get filled right? Wurt is sort of an “All around good choice with no Downsides”

ESPECIALLY When it comes to Xbox One.

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Owlrus98    2060

One of the main things I love about Wurt is the fact that she rewards longevity playthroughs, and you can't simply change to her to get any benefits (much like Winona and her catapults). She does have benefits for those that stick with her in the longrun, and here's a few examples of the things I personally like:

TL;DR
- Kelp takes only .25 of a day to dry and restores 10 sanity when eaten. As Wurt, you gain about 16 hunger from each one too.
- "Clever Disguise" can make pigs neutral
- Merms don't go home at dusk if you want to hire them, and can hold their own against a leif
- Merm Guards are immune to fear penalties (such as from the Bee Queen), so you will not have to worry about them running home.
- Meat can be used to make fresh eggs that can be used as crockpot filler. Very nice when you are loaded up on morsels, meat, or monster meat.
- A Top Hat/Scalemail/Thulecite Suit and a single Fish gives enough sanity to negate sanity loss in both the caves and at night. 
- With the Tin Fishin' Bin, you can constantly swap out your pet fish for a different one (only works with ocean variants). 
- Craftsmerm are nice for chopping trees and mining boulders (latter of which can be used for easily mining marble trees and Stone Fruit).

EDIT: Just remembered, but her strong grip applies to anything that would knock her weapon out of her hand like a Moose/Goose honk, or a Bearger hit.
 

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Mysterious box    198

They must have patched the moose goose interaction last did that with her weapons still slipped on honk but other than that I knew about all the other inactions mentioned so far it just feels to me that those upsides are minor at best then again maybe for me personally I just need to try to use followers more long term over short I do appreciate the input so far as this is my first post here.

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Sivdun    218

I feel you. It's more about asking question like: What Klei wants Wurt to be?

If she supposed to be minion based character the problem is that you can't fully control followers and give them orders. Merms don't need tools to mine rocks or cut trees but you can't force them to do that work unless you yourself craft a proper tool (pickaxe, axe) and start working on it yourself. You should see how many axes and pickaxes I dropped around the world because I used few % of their durability and after that drop them to not waste my inventory space. With fighting I won't complain about them that much, but the moment you face anything with aoe attacks your followers go down in seconds, easy solution for this, just don't fight those enemies with followers. Next thing is merms have no animations for being well fed and starving, when I played DS pigs would cheer if they are fed but also rub their bellies if they are hungry and about to depart. This helped a lot with knowing if you can hang around more with your followers or they will just leave you in the middle of the trip. 

To fix that merms need to give you signals like pigs do, rubbing belly and being sad when on low loyalty and cheering when on high or above half of maximum loyalty. On top of that, when you have followers there should be a command button instead of examine, ex: "Command chop tree", "Command mine rock", "Command attack" this would also fix a bunch of problems with other follower types like Maxwell digger, miner and chopper destroying bases. I would love to see my slav- my sweet fishy kin help me by fighting die for me and my comfort without a need of being involved myself.

If she supposed to be builder of the "Merm Empire" Merm King ruins this completely by accepting freshwater fish as a tribute, you know where you can get freshwater fish from if you exclude ponds? Merms. In my current world I built 80 merm houses close to each other and I cause civil war when I feel like it. Merms don't respawn during winter from Wurt's build houses so I don't do that during winter but any other season it's "Colosseum in the swamp event" every 2 days for me. By merm dying you get a fish (Merm king can turn it into: seeds, kelp, rot, trinkets, tentacle spot) and frog legs (eggs if you feed your bird), kelp and eggs give you ratatouille, so you can feed the king and yourself by purposely making your kin kill each other. But wait, why should you feed the King in the first place? Just let him starve to death after trading fish with him and replace him with a new merm when you need it. Wurt's bonuses from king are weak. More hunger? Why? She has 200 hunger already. More sanity? Well it makes sense she could feel pride for King being there but she has 150 sanity as a base and 50 as bonus from King. This is too small to mean anything if you play long enough. If she had 100-125 base sanity and then jumped to 200 with a King I would agree it is nice bonus. Health buff? Good, She is the same type of merm as Merm Guards after all. But again, you don't need this buff all the time, only when you fight enemies that can deal heavy dmg, it can be useful so you won't get one hit killed, but for real, there aren't that many enemies that can deal dmg that high.

If Klei wants King to be part of Wurt's gameplay there should reward for keeping him alive and not giving him freshwater fishes. My idea: King has 4 plates in front of him, player can feed the king directly or by leaving food on the plates. If King will be missing 75 points of hunger and you leave dragonpie on the plate, he will eat it and bring himself back to 200 hunger. Add gift basket in front of him where he will leave gifts for you to pick up. Gifting would happen based on his time being alive and how well he is fed. Those options would still make you take care of him and coming back to get rewards for your work. You can also make him accept any fish as tribute that isn't freshwater fish (let's say he wants to have more fancy pet than that).

For Wurt in general I expected Wetness to be part of her gameplay mechanic, where you need to stay moist (yes, I know amphibians aren't wet with water but slime they produce but it's a videogame and many things are already simplified in it) and her drying up could be a danger for her, but also having wetness too high would make you freeze earlier in the seasons. Managing wetness with balloons, being able to "fresh yourself up" by jumping into the pond, and swamp tiles having base wetness build up to 30 or something, so it would be interesting to play around that. And again she shouldn't go crazy by holding/wearing wet items, playing as her would be challenging because you could get your fuel wet, your food could spoil faster if you aren't careful.

King Buff should be changed to: +100 health (just like royal merm guards are buffed), extra sanity if we go with 125 base sanity or 100 base sanity, remove movement speed bonus from walking around marsh and make it be applied everywhere after king is present (just like royal merm guards are buffed) and her dmg upped by +17 ( just like merm guards are buffed) so she could use basic spear with efficiency of tentacle spike. 

There is much more to write about her but I will stop for now. 

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Mike23Ua    5229

I don’t build the Royal Tapestry, ever at all.. when you build that and elect a King- Merms stop being naturally hostile towards everything that enters their swamp.

So in many many ways.. Wurt with a Merm King is actually a Nerf to her than it is an Advantage.

The higher Sanity from having a King is useless too.. just wears head garland/Top Hat and carry a pet fish and never worry about sanity ever again.

Now a Wurt WITHOUT a King and 80 Something Merm Huts... that’s an Overpowered god of a playable character. Merms punch anything to death that enter their territory.

Hound waves? No problem, Deerclops? No problem, Spider Queens? No problem, Griefing Wes Player who’s Hell Bent on burning your Merm Army to the ground? Serious Pr.. wait, No Problem!

Wurt and large Merm Armies in a Swamp with no elected King... that is the definition of Overpowered.

I even sometimes laugh hilariously as my Non-Merm buddies aren’t paying attention and then get murdered because their Disguises wore off. 

(Maybe I’m a bad friend.. but dang it it’s funny!) 

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Charesque    636
38 minutes ago, Owlrus98 said:

EDIT: Just remembered, but her strong grip applies to anything that would knock her weapon out of her hand like a Moose/Goose honk, or a Bearger hit.

Weirdly enough, last time i checked - Wurt's strong grip did not apply to M'Goose honk. That means even less usefulness for that perk.
Just checked: Bearger's attacks also knock the weapon out of her hands.

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ArubaroBeefalo    2701

she offers another game mechanics, even if its less worth in terms of numbers, she is what this game needs

and this game things no need to be friendly or easy

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GenomeSquirrel    817

I consider her the worst character myself, compared to the free pig houses and king, she’ll be lucky to find two adjacent merm huts, she can’t eat what she farms, has two mouths to feed, merms don’t have a hambat or helmet equivalent , and other than kelp, the king gives the freeest of resources.

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Mysterious box    198
19 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

she offers another game mechanics, even if its less worth in terms of numbers, she is what this game needs

and this game things no need to be friendly or easy

My main issue is she offers the same game mechanics with more effort while her other perks are nice bonuses in the same sense as willows perks outside of bernie tho this is me simplifying it I admit

48 minutes ago, Sivdun said:

I feel you. It's more about asking question like: What Klei wants Wurt to be?

If she supposed to be minion based character the problem is that you can't fully control followers and give them orders. Merms don't need tools to mine rocks or cut trees but you can't force them to do that work unless you yourself craft proper tool (pickaxe, axe) and start working on it yourself. You should see how many axes and pickaxes I dropped around the world because I used few % of their durability and after that drop them to not waste my inventory space. With fighting I won't complain about them that much but the moment you face anything with aoe attacks your followers go down in seconds, easy solution for this, just don't fight those enemies with followers. Next thing is merms have no animation for being well fed and starving, when I played DS pigs would cheer if they are fed but also rub their bellies if they are hungry and about to depart. This helped a lot with knowing if you can hang around more with your followers or they will just leave you in the middle of the trip. 

To fix that merms need to give you signals like pigs do, rubbing belly and being sad when on low loyalty and cheering when on high or above half of maximum loyalty. On top of that, when you have followers there should be command button instead of examine, ex: "Command chop tree", "Command mine rock", "Command attack" this would also fix a bunch of problems with other follower types like Maxwell digger, miner and chopper destroying bases. I would love to see my slav- my sweet fishy kin help me by fighting die for me and my comfort without a need of being involved myself.

If she supposed to be builder of the "Merm Empire" Merm King ruins this completely by accepting freshwater fish as tribute, you know where you can get freshwater fish from if you exclude ponds? Merms. In my current world I build 80 merm houses close to each other and I case civil war when I feel like it. Merms don't respawn during winter from Wurt's build houses so I don't do that during winter but any other season it's "Colosseum in the swamp event" every 2 days for me. By merm dying you get fish (Merm king can turn it into: seeds, kelp, rot, trinkets, tentacle spot) and frog legs (eggs if you feed your bird), kelp and eggs give you ratatouille, so you can feed the king and yourself by purposely making your kin kill each other. But wait, why should you feed the King in the first place? Just let him starve to death after trading fish with him and replace him with a new merm when you need it. Wurt's bonuses from king are weak. More hunger? Why? she has 200 hunger already. More sanity? Well it makes sense she could feel pride for King being there but she has 150 sanity as a base and 50 as bonus from King. This is too small to mean anything if you play long enough. If she had 100-125 base sanity and then jumped to 200 with a King I would agree it is nice bonus. Health buff? Good, She is the same type of merm as Merm Guards after all. But again, you don't need this buff all the time, only when you fight enemies that can deal heavy dmg, it can be useful so you won't get one hit killed, but for real, there aren't that many enemies that can deal dmg that high.

If Klei wants King to be part of Wurt's gameplay there should reward for keeping him alive and not giving him freshwater fish. My idea: King has 4 plates in front of him, player can feed the king directly or by leaving food on the plates. If King will be missing 75 points of hunger and you leave dragonpie on the plate, he will eat it and bring himself back to 200 hunger. Add gift basket in front of him where he will leave gifts for you to pick up. Gifting would happen based on his time being alive and how well he is fed. Those options would still make you take care of him and coming back to get rewards for your work. You can also make him accept any fish as tribute that isn't freshwater fish (let's say he wants to have more fancy pet than that).

For Wurt in general I expected Wetness to be part of her gameplay mechanic, where you need to stay moist (yes, I know amphibians aren't wet with water but slime they produce but it's videogame and many things are already simplified in it) and her drying up could be a danger for her but also having wetness too high would case you to freeze earlier in the seasons. Managing wetness with balloons, being able to "fresh yourself up" by jumping into the pond, and swamp tiles having base wetness build up to 30 or something, so it would be interesting to play around that. And again she shouldn't go crazy by holding/wearing wet items, playing as her would be challenging because you could get wet fuel, your food could spoil faster if you aren't careful.

King Buff should be changed to: +100 health (just like royal merm guards are buffed), extra sanity if we go with 125 base sanity or 100 base sanity, remove movement speed bonus from walking around marsh and make it be applied everywhere after king is present (just like royal merm guard are buffed) and her dmg upped by +17 ( just like merm guards are buffed) so she could use basic spear with efficiency of tentacle spike. 

There is much more to write about her but I will stop for now. 

Honestly this about sums up most of my feelings on her she's a change of pace but her powers are mainly the same as using as using any other character minus pigs I'm not asking something crazy I just feel like building merm villages should either taken a back seat while giving her a main perk or should be expanded upon by allow merms that specialize in different things it

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Owlrus98    2060
3 hours ago, Charesque said:

Weirdly enough, last time i checked - Wurt's strong grip did not apply to M'Goose honk. That means even less usefulness for that perk.
Just checked: Bearger's attacks also knock the weapon out of her hands.

Truth be told, I wasn't sure about my edit either; I was just too lazy to check my last point but was curious if it actually works or not. Funny thing about the internet is that if you want an answer about something, it's better to post an incorrect fact than a question, as people are more motivated to correct someone than to help answer a question lol.

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ShadowDuelist    5776

Wurt is an awesome character, but only if you stick to her specific gameplay: She's mostly focused to play with friends, or alone, and with 30 warrior merms on the surface and another king and 20 warriors on the caves, you become a force of nature.
I suggest everyone having trouble issuing commands to a large army, to try using an Ice staff or a boomerang to give them targets from a distance: you won't regret it.

There's always room for improvement of course: 

  • I have yet to find a use for her in publics. Most Wurts I've seen in public servers don't really know how to use her properly, don't get enough time to do something meaningful before the server is reset, or their village is burned by another player to ashes. Wurt is pretty unpopular on most of the public servers I've visited so far. 
  • She's a pretty mediocre nomad character: In "free for all" servers, you'd do better playing as Wes.
  • Merms are VERY dumb in wayfinding, and if their friendship ends (because of any reason) far away from their house, they are very likely to get stuck and lost somewhere random on the map, and they will never respawn in their house.
    Unfriended merms should teleport back to their house after 2 or 3 days, otherwise in the long run, it becomes a serious gamebreaking problem to have 20 merm houses only to find 5 or 6 merms living there.

It would be interesting if more "rushes" and special strategies of Wurt would come out, perhaps the things I've complained about already have a workaround I'm not seeing yet. 

 

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Lbphero    1439
8 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

-merms do nothing worthwhile while being slightly more annoying to manage

you got me royally screwed up if you honestly think that merms, some of the best minions you can get in the game, can do nothing worthwhile. They are better fighters than the other 3 types of minions excluding maxwell's (rabbitmen only beat them imo if you have like a million of them on your side) and can resource gather just as good as pigs.

8 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

-wurts structures require massive effort to produce but since they offer little to no help to a group wurts mainly end up going solo or ignoring them altogether to help the team do useful things

 wurt's minions, due to their speed, kiting ability, and usefulness for resource gathering, contribute lots to a successful colony/base of people. Wurt is a character that revolves around minions to be good, and her minions are Good.

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Mike23Ua    5229

I’m currently playing as Willow in a new server and I noticed that Willow With a Top Hat + Bernie prevents sanity drain.

So Wurt being able to do this with any old common fish, where as Willow needs a few harder to obtain items to build Bernie’s makes Wurt Even more OP then I had originally thought.

I mean yes she has a sanity drain while holding a dead fish.. but when are you EVER going to need Dead fish as a Wurt player? She won’t eat Meat so Fish Morsel won’t help her at all.. AND more importantly if your in a Swamp full of Merms & Spiders, You have Infinite Spider Silk & Fish dropped from the Merm Vs Spider War that happens there. When your fish starts to spoil simply drop it and get a new one before it turns to Spoiled Fish Morsel.

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Sweaper    646
Spoiler

 

>enter public server

>pick wurt

>find flint, make pickaxe, get gold, make spear, shovel, backpack, pre-craft alchemy

>explore map, get silk, kill pigs, take 20 bushes, get manure, find swamp

>build alchemy, plant bushes, find merms, feed merms, get wood, make merms, get wood, make merms around bushes

>make thermal stone, wait, winter is here, merms get wood, more merms, no merms, big tree killed merms

>logout because no minions and 2 hours passed

______________

>enter public server

>pick woodie

>>find flint, make pickaxe, get gold, make spear, shovel, backpack, pre-craft alchemy

>explore map, get monster meat and seeds, find island, get stone fruits, kill pigs, take their houses

>build base, build pig farm, plant stone fruits, feed fruit to pig, fertilize stone fruit

>day 11, eat moose thing, kill pig, get meat, server carried

>get wood, get wood, get wood, make thermal, get wood, get wood, get wood, no minions required, get wood, logout

____________________

Anyone saying she is a good gatherer, no she isn't. Maxwell and Woodie are better early game and can do more instead of being stuck getting materials for your minions. Then in Winter if your merms die to a tree guard you'll need to waste manure/ice/staff for every single one to make them respawn. By late game you have Bearger.

I said before in this forum and will repeat it, what she can do even a Wes or Wilson can do with pigs and bunnies in the late game where she shines. She is not great, she is not bad, she is ok at best.

 

 

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ArubaroBeefalo    2701

What in reading here is that people wants merms village being as easy to build as pig village when merms are stronger than other friendly mob. Guys its another gameplay, its a gameplay that need preparation.  Its like if you want to have all the grinded powders of warly day one

Its like every character should be as op as wolfgang... (then we have topics asking for wes and wendy reworks...)

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Mike23Ua    5229
Just now, ArubaroBeefalo said:

What in reading here is that people wants merms village being as easy to build as pig village when merms are stronger than other friendly mob. Guys its another gameplay, its a gameplay that need preparation.  Its like if you want to have all the grinded powders of warly day one

Its like every character should be as op as wolfgang... (then we have topics asking for wes and wendy reworks...)

Wurt is fine as is, my only complaint about her is that on XBOX ONE Wurt is an all around good character choice with absolutely no serious downsides what-so-ever. Even the thing that’s meant to be her largest downside- Winter is easily by passed if you simply just leave food unplucked from their natural sources like Carrots until you absolutely need them. (No such thing as Klei Official Dedicated Servers so uhh yeah)

I personally feel like Wurt should be sort of the opposite of Willow- Where as Willow can stand in a fire all day long... Wurt should probably lose more Sanity and maybe even tiny bits of health the “Drier” her Fishy-Scale like Body becomes.. so standing near fires too long would dry her out.. which would then make SUMMER Wurts hardest to survive Season due to needing to keep from drying out.

Maybe she could splash Water on herself from ponds or jump off boat planks to increase her Wetness. I don’t know.. just something that feels like Wurt isn’t an all around good choice to pick all the time.

I speak strictly from a Console Players Perspective On Wurt By the Way.. she could be entirely balanced over on PC

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GenomeSquirrel    817
1 hour ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

What in reading here is that people wants merms village being as easy to build as pig village when merms are stronger than other friendly mob. Guys its another gameplay, its a gameplay that need preparation.  Its like if you want to have all the grinded powders of warly day one

Its like every character should be as op as wolfgang... (then we have topics asking for wes and wendy reworks...)

They are weaker in terms of providing food for wurt, providing weapons and armor, have nothing to match infinite gold for infinite tools; for losing all of that, they are only stronger against fighting bosses IF you spend seasons building up a large enough army. In most aspects they are weaker, I'd like them to have more going on for them outside of the few days a boss would be around, and for king to have a decent pool.

It's also not another gameplay, people have been building rabbit houses and pig houses around themselves long before Wurt was created, people have been surrounding beequeen with rabbit hutches, using pigs to chop wood. Wurt's version still goes through the same steps.

 

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Sweaper    646

One buff I would like to see that won't make her op but more of a double edged sword is her getting an attacking bonus when she is wet. Now you have a reason to play while wet, coldness from wetness can be remedied by winter clothes or a thermal stone, but if you want that bonus you'll have to be insane.

Because right now her firm grip is nothing to be amazed. At least then she would be better at going ruins when raining underground, compared to your average character, and slightly better at farming fuels.

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Parusoid    542
18 hours ago, Owlrus98 said:

- "Clever Disguise" can make pigs neutral

it cant tho unless there were some changes recently that i dont know of

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Sweaper    646
4 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

What in reading here is that people wants merms village being as easy to build as pig village when merms are stronger than other friendly mob. Guys its another gameplay, its a gameplay that need preparation.  Its like if you want to have all the grinded powders of warly day one

Its like every character should be as op as wolfgang... (then we have topics asking for wes and wendy reworks...)

You do know Warly isn't a great character, right? Even if you had powders day 1.

Merms are barely stronger than other friendly mobs, and they will easily die to AoE bosses. They are worse for Bee Queen compared to bunnies, because resources and the need for a king. And if you decide to change characters you'll have to get rid of all the setup and change to bunnies.

Late game she is good, yeah, but what character isn't? At least WX and Wolf have a speed bonus late game.

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Sweaper    646
Just now, ArubaroBeefalo said:

maybe for you, for me he is perfect

I meant in usefulness, otherwise yeah he is pretty great. Even if he had 300 powders at day 1 wouldn't make him useful, those are a luxury at best and barely any good.

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Mike23Ua    5229
2 hours ago, Sweaper said:

I meant in usefulness, otherwise yeah he is pretty great. Even if he had 300 powders at day 1 wouldn't make him useful, those are a luxury at best and barely any good.

I said this before... and I’ll say it again- I defiantly don’t think the focus behind character refreshes are to make them all any more or any less OP.

I think the overall intention is to make them unique and fun to play as.

And while I personally may not like Warlys Playstyle, There are people out there that want the role of designated Chef.. so let them enjoy their thing. Theres also a certain someone here on these forums who wants Wilbur added to DST.. and while a defiantly don’t agree with their idea of letting him turn into a Dragonball Z Mutant Ape.. I DO Think having Wilbur Playable in DST could be fun.

Maybe he just naturally produces poop? What does poop do? Well I would imagine he can throw it like a projectile, it won’t do much in damage.. but it dang sure would do its job of healing Wormwood from a distance.

If the Intention was to make Wurt fun and unique to play as then I would say Klei did an amazing job at that, but without any serious downsides... she’s still an all around good choice to pick I love playing as Wurt.. but I can’t help but feel like she is missing something.

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