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On topic "Tips on how to be Courteous to Fellow Players"

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CaptainChaotica    5353

I have a new tip on how to be courteous to fellow players now:

--Don't tell them that they _have_ to make themselves play with jerks and griefers or else they don't qualify as "experienced".   Even if that's not precisely _discourteous_, it is at least AWFUL advice.  

...Notorious

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Viktor234    4637
On 4/6/2020 at 12:58 PM, CaptainChaotica said:

I have a new tip on how to be courteous to fellow players now:

--Don't tell them that they _have_ to make themselves play with jerks and griefers or else they don't qualify as "experienced".   Even if that's not precisely _discourteous_, it is at least AWFUL advice. 

If you want to become a real experienced player, then you are forced to play with jerks and griefers.

 

The DST community is large, there are many different players from newcomers to experts. Everyone got their own playstyle, from surviving or enjoying the game to making bigger projects. Players did invent many different techniques in terms of gathering food, defeating bosses, farming other ressources, etc. While not every technique is perfect, they did still learn from their own mistakes.

If you isolate yourself and play solo or with friends only, then you'll still be able to gain some amount of experience. You will be able to learn from your own mistakes, invent your own techniques, and become better on your own. Playing alone is actually a good way to understand the game mechanics and to build up your skill. But even if you become an experienced player from doing things on your own, you'll never be able to call yourself a real experienced player, you'll only be experienced in your own imagination.

Because somewhere hidden in the community, there's a player who did also invent his techniques on his own. Just like you he did work hard to achieve his goals. Now, if you compare your work with his work, he might end up in being much better than you! Even if you did work hard, you didn't work hard enough and you'll end up in being an inexperienced player, since you did never learn the techniques of a real experienced player.

You can't avoid cases like that if you isolate yourself, nobody will be able to teach you even better methods for doing things because you'll never meet them. You need to meet other players and be ready to learn, if you want to become experienced.

However, not everyone in the community is a helpful person. There are also players who don't treat others as their friends: They enjoy it to take your loot, ruining other player's work, burning your base, or to kill everyone one by one. They are known as griefers, and playing with griefers ingame can be some hard work. You aren't forced to keep griefers in your game, and if you can't deal with them, just kick the griefer and roll back their mischief if required. But even griefers do mistakes, and you might learn from their mistakes too.

 

Quote

Only a fool learns from his own mistakes. The wise man learns from the mistakes of others.
- Otto von Bismarck

Don't be a fool.

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Viktor234    4637
41 minutes ago, GetNerfedOn said:

snip

  • Experience =/= Skill, and vice versa: This also applies to your own arguments.
  • It's not only about learning how things do work, it's also about learning all the ways how you can deal with them.
  • You aren't forced to become experienced, you aren't forced to play with griefers, you can play the game just like you want to. But you can't call yourself experienced if you didn't witness the experience of other players. And learning certain techniques from other players can be easier & better than inventing them by yourself only. In the first case you do have two different techniques you can choose from, and one could be used to improve the other one.
  • Of course there are other ways in gaining experience (not skill), like watching videos how other players are dealing with certain tasks. But in that case you wouldn't play the game but just watch others playing, and you might just as good watch others playing the game while playing the game.

 

I think that should be discussed in a different topic.

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GetRektKids    1019
On 3/4/2020 at 2:02 PM, Thalkas said:

I have few small tips - maybe not so important but really nice to see:
• Be nice, if you joining write "hey", "hello". It's always looking better than joining, playing alone (ignoring people) and being quite

• "I survived only X days","I survived only X seasons" - really you don't need to write it because it doesn't matter. You can survive 1000 days without basic knowladge or 100 days and know "forbidden OP knowladge".

• Don't be greedy - if you going with others to kill any boss, share with them drops. Multiple things like royal jelly try to split equally to each. Single things split via /roll with specific criteria eg. "the highest score, the lowest score, the closet to X score".

When I playing with friends we have few unwriten rules, I think its nice to hear it:

• First tam'o'shanter going to Wickerbottom

• First deerclop eye going to WX

• First cane going to Wortox or WX (for getting full map faster)

• If you leaving game with rare items - Tam'o, Eyebrella, Cane, Kampus sack - ask if someone need anything and eventually drop it for someone want it.

 

/roll is really nice command, have it in mind. You can resolve any dispute with this function.

Deerlcops eye is a given. It's a single item that is from a team fight. Spring can actually kill WX if you aren't careful. 

But when it comes to cane, or tam o' shanter, whoever farmed for it gets it. It never really seemed fair to me for someone to want something then farm it, then have it give it up because there is a Wickerbottom or a Wortox. Now if you WANT to give it up that's fine. But don't force someone to give up an item they farmed for, that they wanted. The only time it should be rolled is if multiple people help with the fight.

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reichull    1307
20 hours ago, GetRektKids said:

But when it comes to cane, or tam o' shanter, whoever farmed for it gets it. It never really seemed fair to me for someone to want something then farm it, then have it give it up because there is a Wickerbottom or a Wortox. Now if you WANT to give it up that's fine. But don't force someone to give up an item they farmed for, that they wanted. The only time it should be rolled is if multiple people help with the fight.

Idk in my opinion it’s kind of rude not to automatically offer up the first items to the host whether they helped or not and it’s also inconsiderate to hoard an item all to yourself when others might need it more just because you went out and got it all alone. It’s a team work game, if you’re playing with others- cooperate and share. 

If I’m in someone else's world, I always give the host first of everything. If I’m in a public server where there is no host, I’ll give the first tamo to Wickerbottom (especially if said Wickerbottom is farming food for everyone) or whoever needs it the most. I personally don’t struggle with sanity issues and I don’t mind fighting nightmare creatures, others might. If someone has a walking cane but they’re just chilling at base doing nothing while someone without one is tryna explore and gather resources, that’s just.. ew. 

Spoiler

It’s funny though @GetRektKids I’ve played with you before and you were incredibly rude. You were Wigfrid and I went out and mined heaps of rocks and gold for you to make helms for everyone and when I gave it to you because you had none, you wouldn’t even let me have a helm lmao. 

 

Edited by reichull
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x0-VERSUS-1y    5626
57 minutes ago, reichull said:

 

  Hide contents

It’s funny though @GetRektKids I’ve played with you before and you were incredibly rude. You were Wigfrid and I went out and mined heaps of rocks and gold for you to make helms for everyone and when I gave it to you because you had none, you wouldn’t even let me have a helm lmao. 

 

You didn't even needed to mention that, this chaps "colorful" personality transpires from the nick down to content of one's post to recurrent CapsLock "yelling" non sequitur remarks. Kinda ironic such person comments in a "how to be Courteous" topic - even more so as one's posts are everything but "courteous". The more I frequent pubs and forums to see a myriad of people with their shenanigans the more I contemplate on the truth of stereotyping: most times books' covers depict exactly their content.

 

Also yes, for Co-Op servers the most: etiquette would be to hand appropriate items to appropriate characters, even more so if they are quite productive/proficient in and for communal base (gathering resources, exploring, setting Wicker farms, etc). It helps everyone really. And as a Wig to make helmets for people around, not to mention when people handle you materials for doing so, would be a given.

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GetRektKids    1019
14 hours ago, reichull said:

 

  Hide contents

It’s funny though @GetRektKids I’ve played with you before and you were incredibly rude. You were Wigfrid and I went out and mined heaps of rocks and gold for you to make helms for everyone and when I gave it to you because you had none, you wouldn’t even let me have a helm lmao. 

 

I'll PM you to not clog the forums.

14 hours ago, reichull said:

Idk in my opinion it’s kind of rude not to automatically offer up the first items to the host whether they helped or not and it’s also inconsiderate to hoard an item all to yourself when others might need it more just because you went out and got it all alone. It’s a team work game, if you’re playing with others- cooperate and share. 

If I’m in someone else's world, I always give the host first of everything. If I’m in a public server where there is no host, I’ll give the first tamo to Wickerbottom (especially if said Wickerbottom is farming food for everyone) or whoever needs it the most. I personally don’t struggle with sanity issues and I don’t mind fighting nightmare creatures, others might. If someone has a walking cane but they’re just chilling at base doing nothing while someone without one is tryna explore and gather resources, that’s just.. ew. 

 

Oh I agree with you. People sitting at base doing nothing shouldn't get the items. As long as they are rightfully using the tools to their ability it's fine by me. There are definitely variables that go into this. If there is a Wickerbottom that doesn't really know what they are doing, I feel as if you farmed for the Tam' you shouldn't have to give it to a completely pointless Wickerbottom that is oblivious to what they are doing. If it's a Wicker that just farmed a butt ton of food and they need sanity back, yeah, I got no problem with tossing the Tam. same goes with Walking cane and exploring in such. You get the drift. 

As for public servers, on console 95% of servers there is a host. 

13 hours ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

Also yes, for Co-Op servers the most: etiquette would be to hand appropriate items to appropriate characters, even more so if they are quite productive/proficient in and for communal base (gathering resources, exploring, setting Wicker farms, etc). It helps everyone really. And as a Wig to make helmets for people around, not to mention when people handle you materials for doing so, would be a given.

The reason I posted that, because in my opinion it seems the most etiquette to hand the cap to the person who farmed for it. since I'm not going to type exactly what I put above you can read that. There are variables that go into account.

Also, if someone needs the Cap/Cane, I'm not a hoarder. If they need it, I'll toss it over. You guys are really making me out to sound like the bad guy here. (Thanks Reichull)

Edited by GetRektKids
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GetNerfedOn    5779

There was something like a "Ten Commandments" for this sort of topic that I saw somewhere but can neither recall nor  find... Can anybody find it for the sake of posterity? Orrr shall we make our own?

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Mike23Ua    6382

If your playing on Xbox One you only have the option of hosting a server, or joining Someone else’s hosted Server- There is no such thing as Klei Official or Dedicated.

Which means- When the host leaves the game or accidentally drops connection, EVERYONE in the Entire Server gets booted back to the Main Menu, Because of this when I am the host of a World I see that world as Mine, and MINE Alone... Other people can join and play sure, but if I choose to keep playing long after they are gone, It’s MY world and I’ll do just that.

When I join someone ELSES Hosted World I see that world as THIERS, and nothing I do in that world is mine.. it belongs to THEM, so when I exit a world hosted by someone else I drop all my belongings on the ground or store them into a storage box.

There are no such thing as “Always Available” Servers for Xbox, most sessions only last for as long as the host plays.. Therefore- you will see a lot of people join your worlds, Die.. and then leave never to be seen again, likely because they found another world to play in or they have decided to host their own.

These Tips only apply to XBOX Players- Remember that any world you join is not yours, so ask before taking something, placing something or doing anything besides running around surviving.. when you LEAVE a world that is not Yours please be kind enough to drop all the items you had either into a backpack, storage box or just pile them all up in a neat pile for the host to use at their own will, Remember that when you leave, that host may continue playing without you involved.. so leave behind items that may be of use to them!

If you yourself are the host... try to be courteous to others in your session and don’t roll the server back unless it’s unavoidable, Make sure you ask other players to leave behind their items when leaving your world, and at least TRY to build up a small newbie surviving area close to the portal so players joining in the middle of Winter and Summer do not immediately die.

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MagicalSkies    825
3 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

If you yourself are the host... try to be courteous to others in your session and don’t roll the server back unless it’s unavoidable, Make sure you ask other players to leave behind their items when leaving your world, and at least TRY to build up a small newbie surviving area close to the portal so players joining in the middle of Winter and Summer do not immediately die.

Thank you! I once joined a server where the host rollbacked the server a billion times, it was FRUSTRATING! And on top of that, when bearger came they said to deal it themselves because we were idiots....they died so I revived him and left.

Yes! Always drop your items. I always make sure to do that, but since my internet SUCKS, sometimes I just leave and don’t leave anything and I have to rejoin to leave again- why?!

And I agree with the mini base thing at base, since it does kinda suck to join a server and die.

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Mike23Ua    6382

:( unfortunately if your off on long adventures be aware that humans are malicious and some of them (not all) will join your worlds, see your nice little newbie base by the portal and they’ll destroy that and leave- you won’t ever notice this structure has been messed with until you return to this area.. which sometimes may be past the maximum rollback points allowed.

Trolls SUCK but if I could make a suggestion to Klei that can improve this- I play Ark Survival Evolved and ATLAS- a game that can have over 70 players in the server at once, whenever someone messes with something there is a large red notification that pops up clearly visible at the top of your screen- for example: “Player name” has demolished your Wooden Raft.

And if I miss this notification pop-up I can still pull up a recent log of the last few notifications.

Rolling the server back is only useful when you can visibly see or someone informs you of the damage that has been done.. so burrowing this pop up window from Ark/Atlas would go a long ways in containing griefing I think :) 

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Rinkusan    1005
On 4/8/2020 at 5:14 AM, Viktor234 said:

If you want to become a real experienced player, then you are forced to play with jerks and griefers.

 

The DST community is large, there are many different players from newcomers to experts. Everyone got their own playstyle, from surviving or enjoying the game to making bigger projects. Players did invent many different techniques in terms of gathering food, defeating bosses, farming other ressources, etc. While not every technique is perfect, they did still learn from their own mistakes.

If you isolate yourself and play solo or with friends only, then you'll still be able to gain some amount of experience. You will be able to learn from your own mistakes, invent your own techniques, and become better on your own. Playing alone is actually a good way to understand the game mechanics and to build up your skill. But even if you become an experienced player from doing things on your own, you'll never be able to call yourself a real experienced player, you'll only be experienced in your own imagination.

Because somewhere hidden in the community, there's a player who did also invent his techniques on his own. Just like you he did work hard to achieve his goals. Now, if you compare your work with his work, he might end up in being much better than you! Even if you did work hard, you didn't work hard enough and you'll end up in being an inexperienced player, since you did never learn the techniques of a real experienced player.

You can't avoid cases like that if you isolate yourself, nobody will be able to teach you even better methods for doing things because you'll never meet them. You need to meet other players and be ready to learn, if you want to become experienced.

However, not everyone in the community is a helpful person. There are also players who don't treat others as their friends: They enjoy it to take your loot, ruining other player's work, burning your base, or to kill everyone one by one. They are known as griefers, and playing with griefers ingame can be some hard work. You aren't forced to keep griefers in your game, and if you can't deal with them, just kick the griefer and roll back their mischief if required. But even griefers do mistakes, and you might learn from their mistakes too.

 

Don't be a fool.

There is no such thing as a "real experienced player", much like there is no such thing as a "true fan". It's a completely subjective phrase and rarely accomplishes anything more than gatekeeping. A solo Wolfgang boss rusher who can kill fuelweaver by early Winter but has taken food for granted to the point where they have no idea how to maximize food output to keep a server of 12+ alive can easily be argued as an inexperienced player for example, and likewise, a player who's done everything and 'experienced' every situation in DST can easily be argued as inexperienced for not having the knowledge or skill to handle any of those situations efficiently. 

I share your view that people who WANT to improve should branch out and try different things, but saying you're not a "real" experienced player for sticking to a schtick that you enjoy is extremely patronizing. Imagine going up to your primary care physician and telling them that they're not a "real" doctor because they don't know how to do cardiac bypass surgery.

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Viktor234    4637
 12 hours ago, Rinkusan said:

There is no such thing as a "real experienced player", much like there is no such thing as a "true fan". It's a completely subjective phrase and rarely accomplishes anything more than gatekeeping. A solo Wolfgang boss rusher who can kill fuelweaver by early Winter but has taken food for granted to the point where they have no idea how to maximize food output to keep a server of 12+ alive can easily be argued as an inexperienced player for example, and likewise, a player who's done everything and 'experienced' every situation in DST can easily be argued as inexperienced for not having the knowledge or skill to handle any of those situations efficiently. 

I share your view that people who WANT to improve should branch out and try different things, but saying you're not a "real" experienced player for sticking to a schtick that you enjoy is extremely patronizing. Imagine going up to your primary care physician and telling them that they're not a "real" doctor because they don't know how to do cardiac bypass surgery.

And the Lawful Good Forumers rise once again from their graves, telling me that Forumers are always right whenever they start talking that "they are real experienced players because they managed to defeat Deerclops".

Again, just for you:

Experience =/= Skill, and vice versa

 

12 hours ago, Rinkusan said:

A solo Wolfgang boss rusher who can kill fuelweaver by early Winter but has taken food for granted to the point where they have no idea how to maximize food output to keep a server of 12+ alive can easily be argued as an inexperienced player for example

This is just an example of a bragger who wants to show off how good he is, but he either doesn't want to gather enough food, did not manage to find a good way to gather enough food, did not encounter a player who showed him a good way to gather enough food, or just doesn't want to show off his way to gather enough food. Your example does tell nothing about the fact if he's experienced or not.

 

12 hours ago, Rinkusan said:

and likewise, a player who's done everything and 'experienced' every situation in DST can easily be argued as inexperienced for not having the knowledge or skill to handle any of those situations efficiently. 

On 4/8/2020 at 12:14 PM, Viktor234 said:

Because somewhere hidden in the community, there's a player who did also invent his techniques on his own. Just like you he did work hard to achieve his goals. Now, if you compare your work with his work, he might end up in being much better than you! Even if you did work hard, you didn't work hard enough and you'll end up in being an inexperienced player, since you did never learn the techniques of a real experienced player.

All I see is how you copied my argument, turned it into an example (which actually tells nothing) and used it against me.

 

12 hours ago, Rinkusan said:

Imagine going up to your primary care physician and telling them that they're not a "real" doctor because they don't know how to do cardiac bypass surgery.

Please explain me what that example is supposed to tell about whatever I said. This feels more like a bad attempt to say that I was wrong, but it does have nothing in common what I said.

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Rinkusan    1005
29 minutes ago, Viktor234 said:

And the Lawful Good Forumers rise once again from their graves, telling me that Forumers are always right whenever they start talking that "they are real experienced players because they managed to defeat Deerclops".

Again, just for you:

Experience =/= Skill, and vice versa

 

This is just an example of a bragger who wants to show off how good he is, but he either doesn't want to gather enough food, did not manage to find a good way to gather enough food, did not encounter a player who showed him a good way to gather enough food, or just doesn't want to show off his way to gather enough food. Your example does tell nothing about the fact if he's experienced or not.

 

All I see is how you copied my argument, turned it into an example (which actually tells nothing) and used it against me.

 

Please explain me what that example is supposed to tell about whatever I said. This feels more like a bad attempt to say that I was wrong, but it does have nothing in common what I said.

When did I ever say this? I'm criticizing the entire idea of a "real" experienced player altogether, not claiming that "they are real experienced players because they managed to defeat Deerclops". I have no idea how you misinterpreted this. Also, could you elaborate with the "lawful good" comment? Because I have no idea how it's relevant to my comment.

Experienced (adj) - having knowledge or skill in a particular field, especially a profession or job, gained over a period of time. I also don't know why you're talking about the definition of experience anyways since I'm criticizing your elitist rhetoric, not the definition of 'experience'.

Exactly; my example says nothing about whether the boss rusher is experienced or not, and that's the point. No amount of information will ever make someone objectively experienced as a "fact" because being an "experienced player" is as subjective as being a "good player". 

I did not copy your argument. You missed the point completely by breaking my sentence into two halves instead of interpreting them as a whole. The point I was making was that the 'inexperienced' verdict for both the "Wolfgang boss rusher" and the "guy who tried everything" is valid; likewise, saying that both are 'experienced' is also valid. Neither of them, however, are "real experienced players" because a "real experienced player" doesn't exist.

You're using a common gatekeeping tactic by implying that anyone who doesn't do X isn't a true Y. "If you want to become a real experienced player", you can do whatever you want, whether it's playing with "jerks and griefers" or NOT playing with them because the objective concept of a "real experienced player" doesn't exist. 

 

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KeshS    3372
3 hours ago, Rinkusan said:

Exactly; my example says nothing about whether the boss rusher is experienced or not, and that's the point. No amount of information will ever make someone objectively experienced as a "fact" because being an "experienced player" is as subjective as being a "good player".

4 hours ago, Viktor234 said:

And the Lawful Good Forumers rise once again from their graves, telling me that Forumers are always right whenever they start talking that "they are real experienced players because they managed to defeat Deerclops".

Again, just for you:

Experience =/= Skill, and vice versa

Experience is subjective to each individual and it is hard to judge a players worth. If you want to better boss rush you ask the boss rusher knowledge, and "knowledgeable" player for extra info. But the example of boss rusher and the "know it all" are irrelevant to the topic's subject. Players that are dedicated to public servers or private servers is the experience that is worth noting, since these worlds differ from one another.

I will write some key notes as to the environment of public servers (specifically the ones that have no admin, like Klei official) from my experience:

When I talk about experienced players I am mentioning the players that played on public servers for an extended period of time.

  • "If you want something done right, do it yourself." Relying on people that you first met can actually take more time than necessary. So experienced players adopt the solo surviving than group survival. As to new players they usually rely on others and sometimes even command to bring "X" resource for the common good.

 

  • Basing farther away from portal prolong the days of a game. There are two reasons to that adoption: Griefers and sieving out new players. The 1st is straightforward, griefers don't like to search everywhere and waste their time. The 2nd is, harsh, but it isn't because experienced players are cold hearted creatures. The game is demanding to a solo player already, and nurturing a new player just adds up more. Experienced players have no idea if this player will at least self sustain itself, be a potential griefer, or just leave in 3 days. There is always players joining and leaving so this repetition is annoying and not rewarding.

 

  • You play Don't Starve Together for the journey, not the outcome. Servers don't last forever, so the idea of building mega bases is not in the mind of experienced players; getting the most out of it, is. It is hard to grasp this mentality for the DST community, but fun is also subjective. So players that play for a long time don't get attached to a single session of a game and even tolerate griefers much better than private servers.

Generally, experienced players notice players that are good at this game and will naturally form a group. It's just how things are, there are always toxic players from both sides, but is it more of an exception, not the rule. 

 

Edited by KeshS
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Mike23Ua    6382

Actually after playing with some randoms who joined my room the other day I think I got a few new tips-

#1- This is an Open world Sandbox game so take your YouTube strategy guides and Meta gameplay elsewhere.. if you don’t like how I’m Playing leave and find someone who plays to your standards.

#2- If you join MY WORLD don’t call me a noob for doing things YOU Don’t Agree with  who cares if Meta says I’m not supposed to base in the Mosaic? Why should you care what trees I burn down in my own world? 

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Rinkusan    1005
8 hours ago, KeshS said:

Experience is subjective to each individual and it is hard to judge a players worth. If you want to better boss rush you ask the boss rusher knowledge, and "knowledgeable" player for extra info. But the example of boss rusher and the "know it all" are irrelevant to the topic's subject. Players that are dedicated to public servers or private servers is the experience that is worth noting, since these worlds differ from one another.

I agree, and that's the point I'm trying to drive home in order to point out why the "you're not a 'real' thing unless you do this thing" argument from Viktor falls flat and does nothing more than foster a superiority complex. I mentioned the boss rusher and do-everything player as two entirely different examples of gameplay experience yet can both be categorized as the same level of experience to point out how subjective 'experienced' is. In a thread that's trying to promote courtesy and goodwill among fellow players, a divisive gatekeeping tactic that encourages condescension seems very out of place, which is why I called it out. 

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Viktor234    4637
54 minutes ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

Can you people pls get your personal disagreements debated in PMs?! Last page of this thread is mostly off-topic. Ty!

Ain't that actually what the whole topic is about? Players make tips about how to be courteous according to their playstyle and others disagree with it since it doesn't fit into their own playstyle, e.g.: Is the Celestial Orb supposed to act like a map marker to show everyone the location of the base or anything, or is it supposed to stay at spawn since it's only use is to craft Moon Rock Idols to change your character? While some players want to use it as a marker to help other players out, other players don't enjoy the consequences of revealing their base to other peoples.

Unless you got some non-gameplay-changing tips or tips which everyone agrees with, posting a tip here can or will start a debate about whether your tips are good or not.

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Rinkusan    1005
1 hour ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

Can you people pls get your personal disagreements debated in PMs?! Last page of this thread is mostly off-topic. Ty!

How is this last page off-topic?

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x0-VERSUS-1y    5626

What an experience player is/isn't (and yes, you can attempt an objective way of defining "experienced DST player") shouldn't be the focus of a "Tips on how to be Courteous to Fellow Players" thread. Courteous implies a positive, helpful mindset. If is conditioned by various factors, isn't really courteous, aka etiquette - that's immutable in any context. Give positive advices, not bickering regarding random stuff.

Spoiler

Also you should probably stop with your own subjective assessments like the "superiority complex" one and other "verdicts" pulled from the thin blue (to be polite - as per the topic), I doubt you know Viktor to make such assumptions. And it's rather ironic.

 

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