Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Please be aware that the content of this thread may be outdated and no longer applicable.

Rma209

Wheeler in Don't Starve Together

Recommended Posts

Rma209    60

I think Maybelle Dorothea Wheeler would be fun in DST. Along with this character I feel we would need a few more ranged options. Things like the Harpoon or the Spear gun. Then I would love Wheeler to become the ranged weapon master. Why not have them be the Wigfrid of ranged weapons? In the Wigfrid update I would love Her to be great at close range only. Also the starting items will need a rework. Pew-matic Horn might need to do less damage and be character exclusive. Then the Navigadget should break after a set number of items found. Any thoughts on this?

latest?cb=20190418203317.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bird Up    1409

I think they could copy and paste Wheeler from single player and she'd be great. I don't know if her gun is really all that. It's really really slow, so melee weapons are more practical in most scenarios. If you're using it to kill birds, it's good, but boomerangs were never hard to make so it's not that great.

 

What's really strong is her dodge. If you play her long enough, you can dodge boss attacks with relative ease. People may not know this, but Wortox's teleport has invincibility frames just like Wheeler's dodge, so it wouldn't be an entirely new concept to DST. I'd like to see her in DST overall as I find her more fun and slightly more challenging than Wortox as a mobility character.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sweaper    463
49 minutes ago, Rma209 said:

Any thoughts on this?

Plenty

 

19 minutes ago, Bird Up said:

What's really strong is her dodge. If you play her long enough, you can dodge boss attacks with relative ease. People may not know this, but Wortox's teleport has invincibility frames just like Wheeler's dodge, so it wouldn't be an entirely new concept to DST. I'd like to see her in DST overall as I find her more fun and slightly more challenging than Wortox as a mobility character.

Not really strong with high ping and her dodge still consumes armor unless you're willing to risk taking damage or maybe even getting one shotted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
CameoAppearance    1689

The one thing I'd change about Wheeler for DST is that the Pew-matic can be a resource hog and while that's a reasonable drawback in singleplayer it doesn't necessarily earn its keep in multiplayer, and in its current form it'd be a very accessible way for a griefer or a clueless newbie to destroy rare items that other players put a lot of work into obtaining. I'd either change its entire mechanic so that tier 2 and 3 items (which is most of them) fired out of the Pew-matic pile up at the target's feet instead of breaking on impact, or if it's agreed that the resource consumption isn't a problem otherwise, remove things like boss-exclusive drops and ruins materials from the list of items that can be used as ammunition.

The Navigadget doesn't need any changes. It's good the way it is in singleplayer, useful but not gamebreaking, and I don't see any reason why the presence of other players means it needs to be toned down.

Wheeler's dodge is pretty powerful, but not OP; it is indeed very much like Wortox's soul hop, limited by its range, longer cooldown and inability to cross gaps in exchange for not having to deal with managing your soul inventory.

I think the Pew-matic and Navigadget would need to be character-exclusive like Lucy or Warly's cookware, not so much because the items need nerfing or would be too powerful if given to a particular other character as because if everyone has their own set then Wheeler would only be distinguished by her dodge. And at that point you might as well just play Wortox, since he can do that too and isn't as fragile.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mike23Ua    4421

I think that.. Overpowered characters or even Weak Characters like Wes, Simply just do not fit well into a Multiplayer game. They worked FINE in Single Player because the only one who’s gameplay experience you were effecting was yourself. But I play on Xbox and I’ve seen a large amount of Servers that’s description reads “Pick Wes = Ban” While we can only ever have a total of 6 players in our games anyway.. For a character to be so Disliked in a Multiplayer Setting, Clearly changes need to be made.

Now as far as Wheeler goes, I can’t really speak for because the Hamlet DLC is not on Consoles and I have never been able to play as Her..

However most of her Kit, Like being the only character who can dodge stuff or start the game with a ranged weapon just sounds incredibly OP..

And She would have to receive some “Together” Themed updates before Klei can just simply slap her over into the game.

(Please check out Canis’s Walani Thread.. Not only did He & Myself explain WHY we Want Walani... but We also explained HOW she could easily be Reworked to better suit Multiplayer.)

————————————

TL:DR- I want all 6 of the remaining Klei official Characters in the game at some point, Including Wheeler.. but at the same time they need to be refreshed to better fit into a Together Environment. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sunset Skye    8245
1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

Now as far as Wheeler goes, I can’t really speak for because the Hamlet DLC is not on Consoles and I have never been able to play as Her..

However most of her Kit, Like being the only character who can dodge stuff or start the game with a ranged weapon just sounds incredibly OP..

Why say you can't speak for Wheeler, then immediately give an opinion on her? You should always play and experience a character in depth before trying to talk about their balance, and if you can't because they're not available on console then imo you should wait until they are before trying to say they're overpowered.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mike23Ua    4421
1 minute ago, Sunset Skye said:

Why say you can't speak for Wheeler, then immediately give an opinion on her? You should always play and experience a character in depth before trying to talk about their balance, and if you can't because they're not available on console then imo you should wait until they are before trying to say they're overpowered.

That’s why I used the specific word “sounds” but anyway enough about what is or what isn’t Overpowered.

If you guys seriously want Wheeler in the game start coming up with some ideas that make her more of a Team Player.

For example, maybe other players can load stuff into her Pewmatic gun for her while she is using it or something..?

Examples-

Winona has an almost totally useless Spotlight for example.. but at least it DOES Benefit an entire team.

Wortox can release souls to heal everyone around him like a Medic.

Wurt can hand out masks that keep her non Fish-Scaled friends from being violently punched to death when stepping foot into her Self-Built Merm Kingdom.

Willows Bernie Teddy Bear can draw the Aggro of Night Terrors even when Willow isn’t anywhere around to help out players who are going insane.

Woodie can supply the entire server with wood and Lunar Island Goodies on day 1.

Wormwood can build a massive veggie garden by just throwing a few seeds in the dirt anywhere & can supply living logs all without ever needing to leave the base.

Even some Non Reworked yet characters like Wickerbottom have team based abilities already, such as being able to fully grow food sources that were just planted (paired with Wormwood this makes them the most team oriented combination in the game end of story.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Misa22    572

One small thing I would add to her, just to avoid the "OP! OP!" yelling is to add a lil hunger cost to her dodge, just 1 point is more than enough. 

I played a modded character long ago (some short of thief? You guys might know him, i cannot remember) that could dodge and had this cost and i found it pretty fair. 

You know, just to avoid the "hey! But she can dodge non-stop and free to get faster to places unlike Wortox' limited hops" issue. 

What do you guys think about a dodge hunger cost? 

For me, she is fine the way she is in single player. Really fun and rewarding, as I like to play her without armor. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sunset Skye    8245
3 minutes ago, Misa22 said:

One small thing I would add to her, just to avoid the "OP! OP!" yelling is to add a lil hunger cost to her dodge, just 1 point is more than enough.  

Personally I don't think changes should be made just because people would think a character is overpowered without it. It's like how people kept saying catapults should require frazzled wires to craft "just so people won't complain about the cheese." That's just silly. If something is already fine then it doesn't need a nerf just so people won't complain, especially a nerf like dodging taking hunger, where all it would do is add annoyance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mike23Ua    4421
11 minutes ago, Rma209 said:

Woodie can get u much wood day 1 but Maxwell does a way better job of it

Please don’t go there.. because people say the same crap about Woodie now being a better Water specialist then Walani or Woodlegs, Characters who’s very Core IS To be a Water Specialist. :( 

I don’t think comparing characters to other characters is fair..

What should be compared, and the ONLY thing that should matter in a Team Based game is what Team Based perks will this Character Bring to the game?

Like okay I’ve seen some people wanting Wes to be even more annoying where hound waves Aggro on Him instead of other players, which makes things still hard for Wes but somehow helps everyone else.

Now let’s think about THAT for just  a few minutes.. it sounds like an interesting concept for sure.. but NOT one intended for WES. in fact it sounds like a concept much better suited for WILBUR.

And I’m not just pulling ideas out of my butt here, I have a legitimate reason as to why:

When you Observe Hound Waves they will become easily Distracted and chase after smaller creatures than you, sometimes even ignoring you altogether..

They chase birds, they chase Bees, They chase Spiders, They Bite Bee Nests for whatever Reason..

 

TL:DR: Hounds are Quite Dumb. So therefore (In theory at least) they should chase after the delicious looking Monkey.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Rma209    60
1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

I think that.. Overpowered characters or even Weak Characters like Wes, Simply just do not fit well into a Multiplayer game. For a character to be so Disliked in a Multiplayer Setting, Clearly changes need to be made.

Now as far as Wheeler goes, I can’t really speak for because the Hamlet DLC is not on Consoles and I have never been able to play as Her.. However most of her Kit, Like being the only character who can dodge stuff or start the game with a ranged weapon just sounds incredibly OP..

And She would have to receive some “Together” Themed updates before Klei can just simply slap her over into the game.

If people don't like Wes that is on them. That does not mean any thing is wrong with them at all. It was made to be hard to play and it works out. If they want to add a feature to help him work as a team that's cool. Lets remember that a good Wes player can do all the same things as every one else.

Now about Wheeler's weapon. It requires ammo to use. Shoot one item and you no longer have it to use. That's the down side. Next, with the Navigadget that is a team helping item. Find one rock and it could point the group tin the direction of a few more. 

Other then the small things I don't feel any part of this character is op. They could bring them to the DST no problem with about as many changes as Warly has.

23 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Wurt can hand out masks that keep her non Fish-Scaled friends from being violently punched to death when stepping foot into her Self-Built Merm Kingdom.

Woodie can supply the entire server with wood and Lunar Island Goodies on day 1.

Even some Non Reworked yet characters like Wickerbottom have team based abilities already, such as being able to fully grow food sources that were just planted (paired with Wormwood this makes them the most team oriented combination in the game end of story.)

I would like you to remember Volt Goat Chaud-Froid(jelly) used on mighty Wolfgang. Then If Maxwell is played at His peak I feel more wood come home to the base. Lastly we would not need the Wurt masks if wurt was not around. If we ditch Wurt we ditch that drain on resources.

4 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Please don’t go there.. because people say the same crap about Woodie now being a better Water specialist then Walani or Woodlegs, Characters who’s very Core IS To be a Water Specialist. :( 

I don’t think comparing characters to other characters is fair..

What should be compared, and the ONLY thing that should matter in a Team Based game is what Team Based perks will this Character Bring to the game?

That is not a fair thing to compare. Your comparing A game called DST that had its edition of Woodie reworked to a DIFFERENT game called Don't Starve that was not reworked. You should compare Woodie in DS to Walani, Woodlegs or even Wheeler in DS. IMO Woodie is one flavor and Maxwell is another. Both chop trees well and ether is a fine choice at the end of the day for that task. Also its not our job to come up with new ideas. Tho If you happen to think of one feel free to share it. By your standard Wilson is kind of a let down too but, that a different topic.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mike23Ua    4421
1 minute ago, Rma209 said:

If people don't like Wes that is on them. That does not mean any thing is wrong with them at all. It was made to be hard to play and it works out. If they want to add a feature to help him work as a team that's cool. Lets remember that a good Wes player can do all the same things as every one else.

Now about Wheeler's weapon. It requires ammo to use. Shoot one item and you no longer have it to use. That's the down side. Next, with the Navigadget that is a team helping item. Find one rock and it could point the group tin the direction of a few more. 

Other then the small things I don't feel any part of this character is op. They could bring them to the DST no problem with about as many changes as Warly has.

I would like you to remember Volt Goat Chaud-Froid(jelly) used on mighty Wolfgang. Then If Maxwell is played at His peak I feel more wood come home to the base. Lastly we would not need the Wurt masks if wurt was not around. If we ditch Wurt we ditch that drain on resources.

Everything you just said sounds like a grieving players greatest dream. 

Join game as Wheeler, Load Important Stuff into Pewmatic, Destroy it all muwhahahaha, leave game.

The Pewmatic would have to be repurposed so that it only accepts easy to get unimportant items. such as logs, Twigs, Grass, Rocks, Etc. 

But that still just leaves Wheeler to be the designated Trash Cleaner.. What Team Based abilities would she have?

Does she come with a Whip where she can lasso it around another player spinning them out of the way of dangers effectively repurposing her dodge to be useable by EVERYONE but only when she herself assists them in doing so?

(When it came to Walani we suggested some cool stuff like Surfboards she can craft for everyone and Beach Towels that let the entire team share her faster drying off from Wetness perk.)

You can’t just say Remove Wurt and problem solved.. it doesn’t work that way Man.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Owlrus98    1526

I just don't really see the point of her being in the game. I mean, the navigadget was great in SW, allowing you to easily map out islands and find resources in different areas (doydoys especially); was also useful in Hamlet to find relics and things like gold, iron, and charcoal early on. A lot of resources are very close to one another in DST, but when you uncover those resources (say you put bone shards in it when sailing to find the lunar island), what other use does it serve when you know about their position? After a long-time of using the pew-matic, I usually put it in a chest somewhere and leave it; mainly because it just never served me well. The argument was made that it was OP as you can farm nightmare fuel as ammunition, however it never made sense to me as to why it wouldn't be better to just make a dark sword and get skill in hand to hand combat.

5 shots of nightmare fuel from the pewmatic: 300 damage

5 hits from a dark sword: 340 damage

5 nightmare fuel in itself can make a dark sword that can do a potential 6800 damage in its lifetime

Personally, I find the horn to be a cool boomerang in essence (but that's just me), but I can't say I would personally use it that often outside of farming birds for feathers or a krampus sack. What I really liked was her passive perks such as her dash ability and speed boost with empty inventory slots, allowing you to nearly halve the time it takes to get where you need to compared to other characters, and dodge enemy attacks easily. 

In short, I just don't know what she could do to help a team if she were added in; she's an explorer, but when the "exploring" is done, what could she do that no one else can? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sunset Skye    8245
4 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Everything you just said sounds like a grieving players greatest dream. 

Join game as Wheeler, Load Important Stuff into Pewmatic, Destroy it all muwhahahaha, leave game.

I don't get why people keep saying this, it's like saying Willow is better for griefers because she starts with a lighter. Just like how any player can craft a torch, any player can open a chest, take its contents and then relog. In fact, if you're leaving the game, then shooting items out of the pewmatic would be a pointless redundant step.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Rma209    60
8 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

The Pewmatic would have to be repurposed so that it only accepts easy to get unimportant items. such as logs, Twigs, Grass, Rocks, Etc. 

But that still just leaves Wheeler to be the designated Trash Cleaner.. What Team Based abilities would she have?

You can’t just say Remove Wurt and problem solved.. it doesn’t work that way Man.

I myself feel it is no more of a change to add Wheeler to DST then Wormwood or Warly. If Wurt is not around then there is no need for the goggles. It is because they are there that we need them. Cause and effect. Not so much a team perk as a way for Wurt to fit in better with the rest of them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mike23Ua    4421
16 minutes ago, Sunset Skye said:

I don't get why people keep saying this, it's like saying Willow is better for griefers because she starts with a lighter. Just like how any player can craft a torch, any player can open a chest, take its contents and then relog. In fact, if you're leaving the game, then shooting items out of the pewmatic would be a pointless redundant step.

I did say Consoles only have 6 players total and that Biomes are closely bunched together near one another AND That on Xbox One Dedicated Servers are a Non-Existent Myth Right?

A host can see a grieving Willow burn their base down and Rollback to before it happened, A host can SEE someone visibly open a chest and take items out then leave the game with them in their Inventory and can also roll the server back to before that ever happened.

A host is NOT Going to see a Wheeler going around the map discreetly destroying important stuff the host may not even notice is missing until day 700 of their game world and CAN NOT Rollback to undo that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Rma209    60

Ok so I can walk into a new games base early on with a hammer and ruin the fun then burn all the trees that are left. Also I could take important items put them on a burning boat set out to sea and jump off. If you don't like the public then don't play a game with random players. When I play Final Fantasy 14 I see rude people but that never stopped me from having 4 + years of fun. Most of the time I play DST my Father joins me on a 2 man game. We have no problems or griefing. Just a lack of players to get things done quite as fast. I will reminded you that every time you join a public server you allow all the players to play there way. There is a reason we can ban people.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mike23Ua    4421

Please read the part about Dedicated Servers not existing on Xbox One.

Dedicated Servers are a made up Myth, they simply do not exist on Xbox One I check every day to see if that has ever changed.

We have Player Hosted Servers, those CAN be set to Public but the Host player has full and complete control over them. When the host leaves the game everyone in the entire server is also kicked from the world.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Rma209    60
32 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Please read the part about Dedicated Servers not existing on Xbox One.

I myself don't use one. You could start a game with friends or solo. Its a choice you make to play with other you don't know. Then by extension you don't know if there going to grief you. Why cant we have a requested character people want? Rude people might grief others? If I really wanted to I could cause some good grief as any character. I just don't do that.

Let marvel at all the options we have to chose from. I borrowed the picture from the link. I only ever played the original DS on playstation. When I am doing DST I use a windows 10 desktop PC.

 

LAN.png.216ff959aae2ced44c38ee2a539c1c67.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mike23Ua    4421
21 minutes ago, Rma209 said:

Why cant we have a requested character people want?.

I never said you CANT have Wheeler, in fact I said I wanted all 6 Klei Official characters brought into DST at some point. (Walani, Wilbur, Woodlegs, Wheeler, Wilba & Wagstaff)

What I said was that they would need some fun Team based perks if they are to be added to the game.

(Please do note that When I say this I am using Already Reworked Characters and DLC Characters as my examples.)

Winona, Willow, Woodie, Warly, Wormwood, Wortox & Wurt.

Each of Them have abilities and perks that let them be effective in a team.

———————————

I provided you with a Wheeler Example when I said give her a Lasso she can grab other players with quickly spinning them out of the way of Danger.

But a grieving player will obviously use this cool team based dodge to intentionally spin other players into danger instead of away from it.

———————————

I got a reaction from the Devs on a post I made a while back about letting Wolfgang throw other players by going into a “Throwing Pose” and the other player then accepting to be thrown by walking up to and pressing the “Interact” Button with the mighty Wolfgang.

I also stated that it would have a Landing Marker similar to the Circle Wortox see’s when Soul Hopping so that before the player accepts to be thrown by Wolfgang they can see EXACTLY where they will land.

(this does NOT mean that they will add this suggestion into the game.. exactly the way I had suggested it, it simply just means that they ARE listening to us and are open to great Team Based Suggestions such as this provided Wolfgang Example.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
GetNerfedOn    5025
1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

I did say Consoles only have 6 players total and that Biomes are closely bunched together near one another AND That on Xbox One Dedicated Servers are a Non-Existent Myth Right?

A host can see a grieving Willow burn their base down and Rollback to before it happened, A host can SEE someone visibly open a chest and take items out then leave the game with them in their Inventory and can also roll the server back to before that ever happened.

A host is NOT Going to see a Wheeler going around the map discreetly destroying important stuff the host may not even notice is missing until day 700 of their game world and CAN NOT Rollback to undo that.

Going by your logic a host is also NOT Going to see a Wortox, Wilson, Winona, Woodie, Wolfgang, Warly, Wormwood, Wigfrid, etc. going around the map discreetly destroying important stuff the host may not even notice is missing until day 700 of their game world.

The point here is that griefing is not and never will be exclusive to any character based on a perk. Any character can hammer down important stuff/overeat/commit arson/steal stuff and leave as equally well as each other. 

Also what does having a dedicated server have to do with griefing? What's your point?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mike23Ua    4421

What if Wheeler was given a brand new team based Gadget, she’s meant to be an Indiana Jones style explorer right? So it would obviously make sense that she can craft a Tracking Device that she can give to other players so that you can easily find and know where everyone is regardless of where they are located on the map.

this allows us to save the Nitre used in burning off Flares, AND gives her something that benefits an entire server full of players.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
GetNerfedOn    5025
5 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

What if Wheeler was given a brand new team based Gadget, she’s meant to be an Indiana Jones style explorer right? So it would obviously make sense that she can craft a Tracking Device that she can give to other players so that you can easily find and know where everyone is regardless of where they are located on the map.

this allows us to save the Nitre used in burning off Flares, AND gives her something that benefits an entire server full of players.

The compass exists, is relatively cheap and easy to mass produce, and serves basically the same function

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites