Canis

Webber's Rework: How to Make him more of a Monster

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Mike23Ua    3135

He consumes Monster Meat with no negative results, he hangs out with Spiders, (I didn’t play as Webber in Shipwrecked but he should probably also had been immune to Venomous Spider Warriors..)

Theres More Spider there Then there is Human. Aka Venom.

Eddie Brock doesn’t WANT to Bite the heads off Humans.. that’s Something the Virus In him makes him do.

Unlike Spider-Man who is just some kid who still maintains ALL of his kid personality with a few additional Spider-like super powers.

Im sure The boy half of Webber doesn’t WANT To Eat Monster Meat or Hang Out with Spiders.. that’s just something the Spider-Half in him makes him do.

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Dunk Mujunk    1045

While i'm not sure what or how exactly Webber should be reworked, i would like it to focus on his relationships/interactions with Spiders. Webber was my first main, for a long time, mainly for the allure of not having to worry about spiders being aggressive toward me. I thought this helped farming for a long time, but after trying out a few other characters (i'm currently settled on WX) I feel that at best Webber is on par with everyone else in terms of farming spider mats, but honestly I feel everyone else is BETTER at farming spider mats.

Spider wars cost monster meat, so if MM is an item you are seeking you have a loss there while gathering it. If silk is what you need, your best bet is to take down a nest. While you can do this once ALL the spiders have left the nest at dusk/night without drawing aggro, it leaves a bunch of loose spiders during the day. While these can be cleaned up with little worry, overall it feels a bit sloppy to me, and seems a bit more time consuming than with other characters.

With at most 3 traps at a time, during the day, every other character can simply touch the webbing around a nest, draw out 1 round of spiders, trap them right by the nest, repeat 2 more times (maybe 1 more time for a single stack nest, I cant remember as I dont farm single stacks anymore), then run up to the nest, drop the 3 traps at the doorstep, strike the nest 1 time to draw out the single remaining warrior (every now and then there may be 2 warriors, but with 3 traps its a non issue) and once he is trapped proceed to take down the nest. This nets you 10-11 spiders worth of loot, plus the loot from the nest, which if it's 3 stacked is 6 or 7 silk plus an egg. During longer days it's easy to take at least 4 nests, if not 6 or more if everything goes smoothly. And for 4-6 nests you are looking at a cost of maybe around 16 or so traps, as opposed to continuously spending MM and waiting for other entities to do what you can accomplish quicker/more efficiently.

Aside from that, there are the Rockland/Spider Nest set pieces, but after spending quite a bit of time farming these myself I feel they are no where near as efficient as the above mentioned method, especially with short dusk/night times.

The only real big benefits I see with Webber atm is the ability to setup shop in a mass of spider nests, but the same level of protection can be provided by basing close to Beefalo herds. The MM provided by mass spider farming is no where near as helpful alone as it is in conjunction with other food sources, and for all that you can obtain similar food items just as easy and just as efficiently.

The ability to craft nests is kinda meh. If you get a map with few nests it could be helpful, but building nests is an expensive endeavor, so if you have enough nests it is better to simply farm T3 nests than to try and construct them.

These are of course simply opinions, and like I said I'm not sure of the direction a Webber rework should take, but I think the key is his interaction with Spiders. As it stands now it doesnt feel very helpful in the long run, especially late game as Canis pointed out.

Edited by Dunk Mujunk
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Canis    11424
2 minutes ago, Dunk Mujunk said:

...but honestly I feel everyone else is BETTER at farming spider mats.

Spider wars cost monster meat, so if MM is an item you are seeking you have a loss there while gathering it. If silk is what you need, your best bet is to take down a nest. While you can do this once ALL the spiders have left the nest at dusk/night without drawing aggro, it leaves a bunch of loose spiders during the day. While these can be cleaned up with little worry, overall it feels a bit sloppy to me, and seems a bit more time consuming than with other characters.

This is false.

After a single night of farming with a decent-sized farm (6+ dens) then Webber can easily get a stack of monster meat and a lot more than 6 silk.

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Dunk Mujunk    1045
6 minutes ago, Canis said:

This is false.

After a single night of farming with a decent-sized farm (6+ dens) then Webber can easily get a stack of monster meat and a lot more than 6 silk.

6 silk refers to the amount of silk when taking down a 3 stack nest. On a long day, taking 6 T3 nests nets you 60 is spiders worth of loot, plus 36 silk from the nests alone, plus 6 eggs.

If we figure the low end and say 4 T3 nests, which would be more common since its harder to find 6 nests that close together, you are looking at 40 spiders worth of loot plus 24 silk from the nests alone, plus 4 eggs. All for the cost of some spears and maybe 15 to 20 traps depending on the amount of nests. That is generally more than 1 stack of MM and pretty close to a stack of silk.

Without spending MM and with no idle time waiting for spider fights to play out.

And thats 1 day of work.

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Canis    11424
10 minutes ago, Dunk Mujunk said:

6 silk refers to the amount of silk when taking down a 3 stack nest. On a long day, taking 6 T3 nests nets you 60 is spiders worth of loot, plus 36 silk from the nests alone, plus 6 eggs.

If we figure the low end and say 4 T3 nests, which would be more common since its harder to find 6 nests that close together, you are looking at 40 spiders worth of loot plus 24 silk from the nests alone, plus 4 eggs. All for the cost of some spears and maybe 15 to 20 traps depending on the amount of nests. That is generally more than 1 stack of MM and pretty close to a stack of silk.

Without spending MM and with no idle time waiting for spider fights to play out.

And thats 1 day of work.

But why would you need that much silk? Monster Meat is arguably more valuable, generally. Webber's spider farming will provide more than enough silk for whatever he/the base needs to use it for.

Edited by Canis
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Dunk Mujunk    1045
13 minutes ago, Canis said:

But why would you need that much silk? Monster Meat is arguably more valuable, generally. Webber's spider farming will provide more than enough silk for whatever he/the base needs to use it for.

Between Bug Nets and Fishing Rods and Sewing Kits and Tents and Lean-Tos and BeeHats and whatever else i'm forgetting silk is one of the higher demand mats in the game imo. Granted thats partially due to my play style, but even still, silk can get used up pretty quick. While I don't TRY and sit on 13-14 stacks of silk between up top and cave base, I do try and remove all T3 nests before they queen out, the result is enough web for a few in game years, but also the ability to relocate the nests where I see fit. And after a few years the bunny man/spider farm is erected, another drawback for Webber.

Granted, this negates a constant flow of MM for a time, however moles more than make up for this, again without a MM cost.

Besides, any other character can still farm spiders more efficiently imo with no MM cost and during day and without masses of spiders moving back and forth.

Don't get me wrong, I love Webber, I just feel, at this point, his "main draw" is done better by literally anyone else.

Edited by Dunk Mujunk

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GenomeSquirrel    653
1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

Eddie Brock doesn’t WANT to Bite the heads off Humans.. that’s Something the Virus In him makes him do.

If you go by the comics, it’s arguably more of an Eddie thing than a Venom thing, although they retooled to a ridiculously degree.

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Mike23Ua    3135
1 hour ago, Electroely said:

It isn't exactly clear how his relationship with the spider works exactly, but it's not that he eats monster meat or stays with spiders against his will. We've seen that he can interact with others just fine (he doesn't even mention anything about wanting to eat them, like a spider would want to do). There's a lot of room for interpretation, so it's hard to say who's right and who's not, so I'll just mention my point of view on the matter:

I think he's been with the spider for a long time, as of the events of DST. He's probably went through a lot with it. He might've had to (or wanted to, or was told by the spider to) try monster meat and found out it's not that bad. It's possible that he never even saw monster meat before being with the spider, hence why he doesn't understand why others hate it so much. It's not like he loves it, though:
        Monster Meat: "Smells foul."
        Dried Monster Meat: "It's really chewy."
I think he's just never had a strongly negative opinion of monster meat, so he doesn't hate it now that he can stomach it well.

And about hanging out with spiders, I think it's a bit of a similar thing, except he's clearly had experience with spiders before he was eaten by one (since, well, he was eaten by one). But my interpretation is that enough time has passed for him to get used to spiders as friends.

Either way, I don't think eating monster meat or hanging out with spiders is something he's FORCED to do.

I wanted to Quote you on this:

So your saying that the Spider half in him talks to the Boy half in him and convinced him that Monster Meat is OKAY to eat?

Or that Spiders are his Friends??

How the heck is that any different from what I was saying! LoL The Spiders Talking to him Influencing his Decision making process.

However.. I can say with absolute certainty that I (Personally) wouldn’t ever want to be friends with the thing that Ate me and took me away from my Family.

———————————

With that said it is clear to me that my Envisioning Of a Webber Rework and The Communities Envisioning Of a Webber Rework are completely opposite of one another.

Some Of you want Webber to focus more on Awesome Spider like abilities.

Some Of you want a Webber to focus more on his boring Boy Farmer abilities.

No one can come to an Agreement on a Middle ground so my final thoughts are this-

Oh boy poor Webber is Screwed.. and I hope Klei seriously takes their time before getting around to a Webber Refresh.

Edited by Mike23Ua
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DarkPulse91    380

The whole nightvision thing will basically just make him into every "Look i made my character in DST" mod
(I swear every single one either emits light or just has permanent moggles at night)

Also it takes away one of the main mechanics of the game that makes it the slightest bit difficult

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Canis    11424
3 minutes ago, DarkPulse91 said:

The whole nightvision thing will basically just make him into every "Look i made my character in DST" mod
(I swear every single one either emits light or just has permanent moggles at night)

Also it takes away one of the main mechanics of the game that makes it the slightest bit difficult

Thoroughly read the OP, thanks.

Also people are acting like he has unlimited nightvision when
A) It deactivates when insane, which will become REALLY easy to unintentionally slip into early game. This also prevents players from utilizing night vision when getting nightmare fuel and stuff.
B) It has a limited range.

Edited by Canis
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__IvoCZE__    7372
15 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

However.. I can say with absolute certainty that I (Personally) wouldn’t ever want to be friends with the thing that Ate me and took me away from my Family.

character development is a real thing

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Mooagain    2058
56 minutes ago, CarlZalph said:

human being an item producer

 

2 hours ago, QuartzBeam said:

So give spiders the ability to harvest grass, twigs, berries, etc. and maybe basic resources from the floor and bring them to Webber.

Remember when he could harvest stuff instantly in the gorge? That was amazing.

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Mr. Despair    148
2 hours ago, DarkPulse91 said:

The whole nightvision thing will basically just make him into every "Look i made my character in DST" mod
(I swear every single one either emits light or just has permanent moggles at night)

Also it takes away one of the main mechanics of the game that makes it the slightest bit difficult

I haven't seen many character like that, most of them just run faster or things like that

Even if it was the case being overused in workshop is not relevant, People use the "i have seen it in workshop lol" here like if all ideas by the comunnitty are bad and that Klei ever implementing something similar would be shameful or something..

Who dies by Darkness and who has problems with it btw?

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Mike23Ua    3135
21 minutes ago, Mr. Despair said:

Who dies by Darkness and who has problems with it btw?

Would you like a Screenshot of the past 6 or so Xbox One Servers I’ve been in?

It happens to people quite a lot, New Players, Even Experienced players who just weren't prepared can fall victim to dying in Darkness

so to say Who dies in darkness or has problems with it is really just an Elitists way of looking at it.

But @Canis Suggestion for Webber to see in the Dark was also countered by him also suggesting Impaired or Blinding vision during day light.

I can see where he is coming from with this suggestion because if you stand around observing Real Spiders they don’t come out of their Nests until Dusk/Night. AND they cower in Fear near Fires or Sunlight.

 

Yes it’s a large change if it was to ever happen to Webber, but absolutely none of you can lie and say we already have ANY character in the game who benefits from advantages at night, and disadvantages during Daylight.

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Dunk Mujunk    1045

Which is why I pointed out

3 hours ago, Dunk Mujunk said:

Maybe some kind of Pig King function? Maybe some kind of Wurt/Merm King type function? I'm not sure what exactly should be done

I'm well aware multiple Spider Queens can exist at once. Having multiple Spider Queens doesn't negate the ability to involve them in some kind of Webber rework.

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Psychomaniac    82

@Canis can't wait to see a thread for my Wilbur (by you, of course).

P/s: I can made a thread but it's not as good as you do.

I have some ideas, incase you interested in.

Spoiler
Quote
On 2/9/2020 at 3:23 PM, Psychomaniac said:

Actually, i already made a comment (not a Thread) about Wilbur back then, something like:

WILBUR’S REWORK

Old perk to keep: Can run, throw poop

New perk to add:

1-    Poop when eat fruit

2-    Jump into Trees, harvest fruits on trees, hide from agro mobs, can dodge attack like Wheeler (monkey is fast so can dodge)

3-    Can now talk simple word about coming event, not much but still can (like Caesar in Planet of the Apes series)

4-    Can plant Banana on the surface, gain sanity when eat banana.

5-    Loose sanity when hungry (like normal animal), gain sanity when throw poop at other, those was thrown at loose sanity.

6-    All kind of ape don’t agro on Wilbur, can craft Prime Ape Hut which will spawn Prime Ape which will follow and stay close to him with a price (1 banana each). They will mimic whatever Wilbur do, like harvest stuff, throw poop (at the same target), pick stuff on the ground and then throw it back at Wilbur at dawn or right before get back to their hut

7-    Turn in to Oozaru (Great ape in Dragonball) when full moon, when in this form Wilbur can do Bearger's slam (help bring down multiple trees), smash rocks and demolish structures like one hit, tank boss…

image.png.ad8d8fd3110f00159e51c1abe91fc73d.png

 

 

 

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