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Canis

Webber's Rework: How to Make him more of a Monster

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Canis    12392

Didn't expect another rework thread from me, huh? I've already posted a thread similar to this before, but since Klei is encouraging conversation on new mechanics, I feel like revitalizing this discussion. Not only that, but I have revamped all of my ideas and implemented previous criticism.

So, Webber. My first main, and still a co-main(?) to this very day. The thing that has originally drawn me to him is the fact that he is a scary monster. However, the only "monster-y" thing in his kit is his ability to befriend spiders. Let's have the idea of making Webber have a more monster-y playstyle our focus on his rework.

Now, there are two perks that I have put thought into. Both compliment and work with each other, but they WILL be controversial, due to their nature.

The first one, night vision.
image.thumb.png.d4ff1947a602d1281ed086580972ad7d.png < Proposed Nightvision range, compared to the range of a torch and a lantern.
 -Webber has Nightvision, however he can only see a limited range around himself, which is a bit smaller than a torch.
 -When under 50 sanity, Webber's night vision starts flickering, increasing in speed and severity as sanity gets lower. When insane, Webber's nightvision deactivates completely.

And the second, Webber does not lose sanity during dusk and night, instead losing sanity during the day.
 -This would cause Webber to, on average, lose more sanity each day, as day phases are usually longer than dusk+night phases, especially during early Autumn.
-He still would lose sanity in complete darkness, however he's probably already insane due to his nightvision failing. (Maybe Webber could periodically suffer sanity drain as his night vision is flickering, but only when it's severe.)

 

Proposing Night Vision is a touchy subject. It gets rid of the threat of Charlie, which is a primary threat to new players. To prevent this from being abused - and to disallow Webber from being flat-out immune to Charlie - his Night Vision deactivates when insane. This goes well with the fact that Webber will usually lose more sanity than other characters due to day phases. What these perks also do is expand upon the idea of the "Is a Monster" perk that Webber has.

However, the most important part of these perks is that they provide valuable mid-to-late game potential. While Webber players are going to have to deal with sanity issues much more often than other characters, having built-in nightvision may make Webber not only viable, but favorable for late game, which is something that Webber desperately needs. Currently, Webber has absolutely nothing going for him after mid-game.

These proposed perks can also give potential for Webber to fill the role of "Cave-Dweller" character.
 -He won't lose any sanity in the caves, allowing for him to simply use a top hat to keep sanity up.
 -Night Vision will remove a decent amount of threat within the caves, which is juggling your light source for weapons, tools, armor, etc.
 -His silky beard actually compliments this idea greatly as Webber only needs that and a thermal stone (which is also easily obtained underground) to survive through Winter. The only season he needs to look out for is Spring, although you could make a Rain Hat to make it easier.

These changes alone would probably be more than enough for a great rework. However, nothing is stopping me from throwing in a few more Quality-Of-Life ideas, in the form of craftables. These could be thrown in the Structures Tab, or a new "Spider" tab. If the latter is implemented, then the normal Spider den's crafting recipe would most likely go here too.

"Cave Spider Den"
-Requires Rocks (15?), Flint (12?) and "Cave Spider Eggs" (drops from naturally spawning cave spider dens, can't be planted.)
-A single cave-dwelling spider will wander around the den at night, contrary to their natural counterparts. In addition, spiders spawned from Cave Spider Dens created by Webber will only retreat back into the dens during the day, allowing Webber to utilize them more easily.
-Can only be destroyed with pickaxes or by grief-capable mobs such as Deerclops.

"Shattered Spider Hole"
-Requires Moon Rocks (4?), Moon Glass (4?) and Monster Meat (20?)
-Functions like the natural equivalent, requiring a pickaxe to break.

"Webbing"
-Requires Silk (maybe 8 or more since Webbers usually have too much of the stuff in mid-game.)
-Can be placed on turf tiles, causing said tile to become "Webbed" similar to the tiles surrounding spider dens. This will slow down nearly every mob except spiders.
-Can be removed with a Pitchfork; Doing so will NOT remove the turf underneath.
-Trying to dig up Webbing created by a spider den will fail, and make your character say that it's too strong.

"Den Wall"
-Requires Silk (12?) and Cut Stone (1?), creates 6.
-Has as much health as a Wooden wall, can be repaired with Silk.
-Spiders do not attack it.

"Silk Wrap" (like those things you wrap around a broken arm, except silk)
-Requires Silk (4?), Papyrus (1) and a Spider Gland (1).
-Heals 20 HP.


Honorable Idea Mentions: (Basically, ideas that I couldn't really fit anywhere else but are ideas that I know are popular.)

Being able to sleep in spider dens
-This idea could be implemented to give new players a way to escape the sanity drain of daylight. Due to how easy it is to get spider dens and how common they are, they shouldn't give Health.

Changing how spider farming works
-It *is* a bit out of character for Webber to care so much for his spider friends, but then cause a mass genocide every night. Instead of this, befriended spiders could have a chance to weave silk for Webber, and refuse to aggro on spider enemies (except Webber). However, this will severely gimp his food-farming potential.

 

That's all I got for now. Thoughts?

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Nickolai    1219

I do like the nightvision feature, but i would like if it was changed a bit. Remember that he's part human too not just a monster.

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Mike23Ua    5182

I only want to add a few things to this thread.. I have played Webber but not an Awful lot of him.

1- the FIRST thing I want is for his Beard Silk to be useable as a Fire Fuel.. his Quotes for Examining it seem to apply this was on Klei’s Agenda Of to do list but didn’t make it for whatever reason.

2- Sleeping In Tier 3 Spider Dens, Webber can Sleep In a Tier 3 Den like it’s a Tent, However.. once he does it will Downgrade back to Tier 2, Allowing him to successfully prevent Spider Farms from becoming Spider Queens near non-Webber friends.

3- This next Idea is a bit Far-Fetched I Guess.. but Make Beefalo Always Hostile Towards Webber and Spiders in General.. (like they’re Always in Mating Season.) Instead Of being able to tame Beefalo Webber can tame and ride Spider Queens as his personal mount.

4- When you observe Spiders in the game they Sleep during the Day and don’t come out till Nightfall, So Webber should also only be able to Sleep during Day but can’t at night.

5- In order to get Spiders to come out of nests during day Webber has to punch it which causes them to become Hostile, this is very dumb.. so maybe allow Webber to “Feed” the Spider Nest to recruit a Daytime Spider?

6- Lets face facts getting Spider Eggs to Plant more Spiders is a complete pain In the rear end, and if another player comes through and kills Webber’s one and ONLY Egg sack on Day 1 it can be depressing. So a more forgiving Egg Sack Recipe would be very much appreciated.. (or just let him reach into Tier 3 Spider Nests and Gather them like a resource)

7- (This is the last one I Swear @Canis)

This one depends entirely  upon IF @FuffledBeeQueen‘s Idea For Elevated Land gets added to the game. But does anyone remember the really old Donkey Kong Country Games where you could hop into a Barrel and become a particular Animal for a limited time? more specifically do you remember the SPIDER Barrel in that game and what it did? (If you don’t Dont Worry I’m about to Explain it) In DKC you could temporarily become a Spider, and you could Spit up Web platforms that lasted only a few seconds before instantly Disintegrating, this allowed you to create temporary platforms and reach higher locations.

I bring this up Because WEBBER should be able to create his own Temporary Web Ladder to climb these Elevated Walls (They cost Resources.. and cant be used by any other player who is not also Webber)

Thats all I’ve got on Webber.. I guess.

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Mr. Despair    172

Just shamelessly rip-off spiderman: Can "plant" silk in the ground which slow down enemies (Like Tar) and makes Webber walk faster, Can "shoot" silk if it's in his inventory (Which would do something similar to the Ewecus), Can wrap some items with silk like with the Buidling Wrap but food still spoils...

But that might be too much, He should at least be able to sleep in the nests and craft the cave/moon type ones.

What they should NOT do is introduce the Shamlet Mask, It makes sense having it in Hamlet since  being able to use the shops is very important there but in DST it would be a terrible idea.

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Nickolai    1219
55 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

-big boye-

I do like some of the ideas like the web ladder. The beefalo one i dislike a lot, i  think its a uneeded change. Also with the eggsack thing to make it more forgiving to craft it is going the opposite of the games intended design, its supposed to be a unforgiving wilderness survival game. Don't Starve Together should be unforgiving but fair. At the moment its more forgiving than DS, which i understand since it plays differently in multiplayer. DST needs to hit that sweet spot of being fair and challenging. Harder games that hit this sweet spot are more fun to play and rewarding to the player.

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Canis    12392

Something I forgot to mention, spiders could do with more animations. An idle animation could go a long ways, a "begging" animation for when a befriended spider is hungry, etc. Maybe two spiders have a good chance to growl at each other, similar to Saladmanders. 

Plus, seeing spiders crawl out of spider dens when they're leaving to wander (read: when the den isn't attacked) would be neat.

You could also argue that they need an AI upgrade beyond visual things, as they have one of the most basic (and earliest-made) AI in the game, but that defeats the purpose of my "Web Wall" idea...

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Mooagain    2190

I really like these changes, although to balance the night vision I would suggest giving it a small color filter, not as crazy as the moggles, but still something that makes it not look like light. 

Another cool item he could get is a sort of a shadow thurible for spider queens, that would befriend them as long as he holds it. This item would probably be expensive, but it would definitely be fun to use.

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4 Da LOLs    3460

I agree up until the sanity loss at day because they still are a child at heart so it would be kinda funny yet logical for the spider boy to be afriad of the dark

also the beefalo thing doesn't make much sense nor is it a good downside for them

honestly I kinda wish that monster jerky would give some other stats like +5 sanity +3 health

natural night vision sounds fun as long as it only activates in darkness and isn't a always visible blemish on your screen

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Viktor234    3825

Horrible rework, you still need to consider the fact that Webber isn't a monster, he's still just a young human in the body of a spider, or in other words: An Undercover.

Webber wants to be friends with Pigs and others, but he can't because Pigs recognize him as a spider. He doesn't fear the day because he's still a human, he doesn't fear having spiders around him because he knows that they won't hurt him.

Your ideas might fit for a totally new character, but not for Webber. Just because somebody puts a mask on another person doesn't mean that the other person needs to become a horrible monster.

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GetRektKids    1016

I like these ideas, there are some faults. Night vision isn't OP but it does help IMMENSELY. I like how you figured out the sanity thing and I like that, but he needs more downfalls. The "Creatures of the Constant don't like you" isn't enough. If you pay attention you can see the spiders quiver to the light

image.png.2a9ddf4aad676a3b0d7afdc26fd86354.png

The spider shields himself from the bright light, I like the sanity drain. That needs to be a feature but I feel like day time there should be a bright filter on the on your screen during the day. Similar to how Wagstaff has a blurry filter on when he doesn't have glasses, it would work like that but it would just be bright during the day. Restricting your vision and draining sanity.

 

Example: (This is kinda like it, maybe darker.... Edit: Definitely darker, but I'm too lazy to fix it)

 

image.jpg.ef9008f92b3262571b312758e0add7ff.jpg

Just something to add to the REALISM of being a spider in the constant.

 

Tell me what you think!

Edit #2: I personally think this is a great idea because it will follow you throughout the ENTIRE game. Even into the late game. Most character's downfalls fall off late game, but this one is to stick around.

5 minutes ago, Viktor234 said:

Horrible rework, you still need to consider the fact that Webber isn't a monster, he's still just a young human in the body of a spider, or in other words: An Undercover.

Webber wants to be friends with Pigs and others, but he can't because Pigs recognize him as a spider. He doesn't fear the day because he's still a human, he doesn't fear having spiders around him because he knows that they won't hurt him.

Your ideas might fit for a totally new character, but not for Webber. Just because somebody puts a mask on another person doesn't mean that the other person needs to become a horrible monster.

But he is STILL a spider..... Why do you think he can be-friend spiders? Obviously he is human, and spider. Being part spider has its downfalls. He looks like a spider, and his body acts like a spider, but has the mind, mentality, and has the FORM of a human (kinda....)

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Frashaw27    1075
10 hours ago, Canis said:

night vision

No. Ypu see how perks are made is that they help with the issue, but not remove the issue entirely. Wilson's beard can delay freezing but not prevent it, Willow can delay over heating but not prevent it, Wormwood can plant seeds without farms but they still have to wait to grow, Warly may cook faster but he still has to wait for dishes to cook, etc. The problem with adding nightvison is that it completely removes any and all challenge from the night, especially with the no sanity drain from night thing. I know that you want Webber to be more voable in the late game, but slapping some sort of godly perk like this on him for the sake of incentive is not fair or balenced. Imagine if for Wendy's rework, they just slap on the ability to use amulets at a 1/4 of the rate to add late game incentive, it would add appeal to her character sure, but at the cost of all of her other perks being much worse then this one godly one. Instead, if ypu are dead set on using this night vison idea, try making it so that Webber can do actions in the dark and have Charlie attack 1/2 as fast. This way it would add usefulness to the entire game by allowing him not to have a light source while doing actions. If you truly want a end game perk, add the abilty to get the Spider King Crown, a ancient Webber exclusive recipe that would make all allied spiders a 3x boost (making normal spiders have 300 hp and 60 damage) which would make them sort of viable boss killers while not being insanely broken. The difference in the ideas is that mine requires ypu to wear a rare item and have a army of spiders to execute to its full potential while yours just requires simple sanity. I don't like the idea as it would be too good as the amount of needed light sources would drop to only boss fights and after the fights, as it would be the only time where your sanity would involuntarily drop to zero, and if you prepared for it to drop, then you have light source preped for that

10 hours ago, Canis said:

Cave-Dwelle

While it would be interesting to see a cave dweller character, this is not the way to do it. Removing the 2 biggest problems of the caves may make them favorable to base in, but ot wpuld also remove the risk reward aspect of the caves, which is something you have stated multiple times ypu want for DST. You would no longer need to carefully manage light sources and battle insanity at every turn, but just run through it, with no difficulty and being able to take all the reward you want without the risk. A good perk helps you in the game, but doesn't carry you through it.

10 hours ago, Canis said:

"Cave Spider Den"

 

10 hours ago, Canis said:

"Shattered Spider Hole"

I mean sure? It wouldn't change his gameplay all that much and with the spiders still being low in health, they can't even be used for cannonfodder. It would be interesting but truly noteworthy, unless they change the mechanics of spiders entirely to give each spider more personality then this one lunges and this one hides in a shell.

10 hours ago, Canis said:

"Webbing"

Oh bot a perk to annoy all non Webber players? I thought this rework was suppose to make them more viable in teams, not make them another hinderer. On a more serious note, this is just reverse cobblestones so it would make more sense to just use cobblestones as everybody can use them. They could also add the abilty to increase the dedection range of all dens, but that wouldn't amount to anything besides a bigger annoyence area.

10 hours ago, Canis said:

"Den Wall

Good idea now if walls didnt suck so bad then maybe it would actually be useful. The only way I see me using it is to make a spider queen pen, so that they don't wander to far whem the nests eventually turn.

10 hours ago, Canis said:

Silk Wrap

Increase it to 50 and it might be useful, other wise it gets beaten by salves by the more simpler items.

11 hours ago, Canis said:

Being able to sleep in spider dens

This idea has been batting atound for a while now but its would be fine. Its not to to powerful and would provise use for using the eggs then just slaughter hubs.

11 hours ago, Canis said:

Changing how spider farming works

Webbers main perks is the ability to gain spider drops on mass, thus helping the team with much more food, clothing, and healing. Removing the abilty to use wars would actually kill any viablity hw had before and turn him into a slightly better Wilson.

2 minutes ago, GetRektKids said:

The "Creatures of the Constant don't like you" isn't enough

Yes it is. Being barred from multiple drops, types of farms, multiple methods of attacking, and having the chance that a entire group of these people can easily kill you is challenge enough. Even with the spider drops, they still don't compare to the drops and benefits you can get from other mobs.

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GetRektKids    1016
 
 
 
 
4 minutes ago, Frashaw27 said:

Yes it is. Being barred from multiple drops, types of farms, multiple methods of attacking, and having the chance that an entire group of these people can easily kill you is challenging enough. Even with the spider drops, they still don't compare to the drops and benefits you can get from other mobs.

This doesn't put you out of loot. Sure, there should be the Hamlet mask for Webber, but there are many methods of getting around that blockade. You can easily still make a pigskin farm. You can still easily make a Bunnymen farm, you can still easily make a..... You get the point, sure it IS annoying, but I still say the downfall isn't enough for what it is. It doesn't affect you late game, does it?

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__IvoCZE__    7522
10 hours ago, Nickolai said:

I do like the nightvision feature, but i would like if it was changed a bit. Remember that he's part human too not just a monster.

Maybe make the vision activate after eating X pieces of monster meat?

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GetRektKids    1016

THREE mobs are naturally hostile to Webber, one of those will most likely ALWAYS be hostile to you unless you are a filthy vegan (Just kidding Vegans are pretty dope) SO Bunnymen are out of there. (I play Wigfrid, so Bunnymen are always hostile. If you don't play Wigfrid or Webber, you most likely have meat on you.) That leaves Catcoons, and Pigs..... Catcoons? Really? The only thing they are SLIGHTLY good for is a butterfly farm, and that's if you base in the Mosiac biome. So, Catcoons are also OUT OF THERE! That leaves Pigs. 

So you are saying that mobs of the constant is a good downside because it roots you out of (MAINLY) One mob? No. Not really, and IF you have friends (I don't :() You can get them to help you otherwise, you can still kill them and trap them. Still leaving farming opportunities.

 

So I think that the downside just isn't enough. That's why I created a new one. (Scroll up a bit)

@Frashaw27

The reason I @'d you was because the edit button wasn't working.....

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x0-VERSUS-1y    5218

This proposal feels like your standard DST Workshop anime mod character: something-something night vision, nimble on the feet, "edgy" wannabe-monster_darklord-y-tralala trope/stereotype. Also, as others pointed, it disregards a lot of Webber's lore - Webber's core is a naive human small child. Most proposed items/abilities are "reskins" from other existing characters ("Webbing" from Wurt, "Silk Wrap" from Wormwood, etc). "Moon"'s influence (Shattered spiders) is a mutagenic/hybridization effect, not a Webber ability - or rather one could say this is debatable "lunar magic" Klei could build more upon in future updates.

Ok for "Cave Spider Den".

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Mooagain    2190

Now that I think of it, beefalos should NOT be hostile to spiders outside of spring, because that would make spider farming WAY to easy. I already get a ton of silk from a few nests and a beefalo hat.

27 minutes ago, Viktor234 said:

Horrible rework, you still need to consider the fact that Webber isn't a monster, he's still just a young human in the body of a spider, or in other words: An Undercover.

Webber is a spider AND a human. Both of them are alive in the same body. 

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Nickolai    1219
8 minutes ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

Webbing" from Wurt

that part really isnt a valid argument, webbed turf is nothing like Wurt's swamp turf. The turf slows down enemies and mobs, which swamp turf doesn't. Webbed turf wouldn't be annoying in multiplayer since you can just craft a pitchfork and dig it up. With webbed turf you can make hound traps more useful since it would slow them down and guarantee to have the hound get hit instead of then skipping a few. Imagine different traps for enemies with this turf. The slowdown penalty isnt a big issue with other players, a walking cane and other speed buff negate this.

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x0-VERSUS-1y    5218
13 minutes ago, Nickolai said:

that part really isnt a valid argument, webbed turf is nothing like Wurt's swamp turf. The turf slows down enemies and mobs, which swamp turf doesn't. Webbed turf wouldn't be annoying in multiplayer since you can just craft a pitchfork and dig it up. With webbed turf you can make hound traps more useful since it would slow them down and guarantee to have the hound get hit instead of then skipping a few. Imagine different traps for enemies with this turf. The slowdown penalty isnt a big issue with other players, a walking cane and other speed buff negate this.

The principle is "affects speed of what is on it" - applies in both cases - rest are details.

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Theukon-dos    2535

While I do agree that Webber could use a rework, As others have said, Webber isn't *just* a spider. He's a boy inside of a spider. As such, It would make much more sense for a Webber rework to focus on that symbiosis than to focus on one half over the other

 

The obvious choice would be to give him structures and items that combine the inginuety and prowess of man with the Silk-weaving finesse of a Spider, But we've seen how that's worked before, so that wouldn't work.

 

Another option would be To give both halves perks that are augmented by the aditional half. For example, Webber used to be a farmer, So he could get farming-based perks that the spider half can help improve. For example, the spider could help weave temporary, but easy to set up barriers for routing animals into pens. It could weave temporary greenhouses to let crops grow during winter, or it could create mini spider dens to help deal with pests and increase crop growth rate. Meanwhile The spider half would benefit from the other halve's inginutity. Webber could make armor for spiders, or, like how Beekeepers place frames to guide bees in construction of there hive, Webber could build Scaffoldings to guide the spiders on how to build their nest. some scaffoldings might have a higher spider capacity but spawn them slower, some might cover a wider area in webs, heck, some could spawn new spider species entirely.

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Mike23Ua    5182

I do not understand why some people want Webber Rework to focus on Boy half.. The child was swallowed Whole by a Spider, and almost all of his Human identity is lost to whatever the Spider has made him now.

Really the only thing that even references him as still being human are when he examines toys and trinkets and the likes, Such as toy Crocodile Hallowed Nights Trinket.

”Almost” Everything else is Referred to as “They, We, Us or Them.” Implying that he is not a BOY with Spider Powers.

(He’s not Spider-Man, He’s More like Venom.. )

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Electroely    3662
20 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

I do not understand why some people want Webber Rework to focus on Boy half.. The child was swallowed Whole by a Spider, and almost all of his Human identity is lost to whatever the Spider has made him now.

Really the only thing that even references him as still being human are when he examines toys and trinkets and the likes, Such as toy Crocodile Hallowed Nights Trinket.

”Almost” Everything else is Referred to as “They, We, Us or Them.” Implying that he is not a BOY with Spider Powers.

(He’s not Spider-Man, He’s More like Venom.. )

Except that's not the case. He almost always talks for both himself and the spider (saying We most of the time referring to both persons that compose him). You don't see him acting like an animal or anything, either. As far as character interactions go, his relationship to the others seems to be just a regular boy with the look of a monster (which others do use against him when he's being dangerous in the case of PvP examinations). It's implied that Wickerbottom gives him some form of education and he does say he wants to be friends with and play with Wendy. His examination line for twigs asks if anyone wants to play stick swords with them (since like I said, he's talking about both himself and the spider).

If anything, he's more human than spider. He acts too much like a person to be considered a monster. He still very much has his human identity and many memories of his old life. I don't see how "almost all of human identity is lost to whatever the spider has made him now."

That being said, I hope the rework involves him strengthening his bond with the spider, letting him make better use of his relationship (much like how Woodie started to understand and control his curse better to make better use of it).

 

Also this exists: https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/forum/76-dont-starve-together-suggestions-and-feedback/

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QuartzBeam    1103
4 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

almost all of his Human identity is lost

I'm sorry, what?

Webber repeatedly mentions activities that he used to do with his mother, father and grandfather before he got swallowed whole by the spider, so he has definitely not lost his memories from before he got swallowed.

More importantly, his entire personality is that of a cartoonishly innocent and sweet little kid. His overall attitude, politeness towards everyone, the fact he finds everything adorable, the way he views pigs as "bullies" or the way he often sounds like he came straight out of some 1990s public service announcement ("Only we can prevent forest fires.")

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Mike23Ua    5182
3 minutes ago, Electroely said:

Except that's not the case. He almost always talks for both himself and the spider (saying We most of the time referring to both persons that compose him). You don't see him acting like an animal or anything, either. As far as character interactions go, his relationship to the others seems to be just a regular boy with the look of a monster (which others do use against him when he's being dangerous in the case of PvP examinations). It's implied that Wickerbottom gives him some form of education and he does say he wants to be friends with and play with Wendy. His examination line for twigs asks if anyone wants to play stick swords with them (since like I said, he's talking about both himself and the spider).

If anything, he's more human than spider. He acts too much like a person to be considered a monster. He still very much has his human identity and many memories of his old life. I don't see how "almost all of human identity is lost to whatever the spider has made him now."

 

It’s a Hybrid. Have you watched the movie Venom?

Venom and Eddie Brock Co-Exist within the same Body. 

Which is why Webber references the Spider Half as We, Them, They Or Us.

I can’t find many quotes where he say I, Myself, Me, etc...

He Accepts the Spider as part of who he is now.

 

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Electroely    3662
Just now, Mike23Ua said:

It’s a Hybrid. Have you watched the movie Venom?

Venom and Eddie Brock Co-Exist within the same Body. 

Which is why Webber references the Spider Half as We, Them, They Or Us.

I can’t find many quotes where he say I, Myself, Me, etc...

He Accepts the Spider as part of who he is now.

Well, yeah, he does accept the spider as part of him, but his original identity was never lost like you said here:

24 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

The child was swallowed Whole by a Spider, and almost all of his Human identity is lost to whatever the Spider has made him now.

 

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