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WAGSTAFF Villain Or Victim?  

134 members have voted

  1. 1. Is Wagstaff a Villain or a Victim?

    • Villain
      43
    • Victim
      16
    • I Don’t Know Because there’s not enough evidence or Lore to support either Theory
      80
    • Who is Wagstaff?
      14


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Mike23Ua    4318

Recent Topics have lead myself and other forum members into a massive discussion on potential Wagstaff Lore and so I have decided to create this poll to see what everyone thinks.

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Dunk Mujunk    1301

I'll throw this here real quick-

https://dontstarve.fandom.com/wiki/Story_Line

While I don't feel there is enough evidence either way, I can't really see Wagstaff as the villain.

It would seem that his attempts to research/harness the powers of the Constant provided Maxwell a means of escape, but this is historically the nature of science. One persons attempt to benefit mankind is another persons weapon.

I think the most important part of the lore in regards to this topic is-

  • 1906 - 1910ish: Unknown "crazy stuff" happens.[1]
  • 1910ish - 1921: Over this time period, Maxwell starts taking people from the real world into The Constant. They are forced to survive the nightmare world he created.[1]

This entire topic hinges on exactly what happened in this period, and the explanation of the period is vague and open ended. 

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QrChuck    280

We don't really know how he would use the power of Nightmare Throne. We know, that Them would change him into Their puppet But Wagstaff doesn't know that.

Wagstaff is just a person seeking for power, no matter what it's cost. I'd call him a madman rather tahn Villain/Victim.

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Bluegeist    1650

A character can be an antagonist, but not a villain. Likewise, a protagonist doesn't have to be a hero.

I think he is a protagonist (as a playable character, with max/charlie as antagonist), but with his questionable morality hes like an antihero or something. Like his baby

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Owlrus98    1484

I labelled him a victim because I find him to be very naive about the seriousness of the situation he's meddling with. Other than that, I believe he truly just wants to advance the world with advanced technology from previous civilizations, without any malevolent intentions (albeit a bit dumb about the consequences).

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Hornete    2851

I don't think the dude wants to the destroy the entire world, I mean no one really wants that. He's just a bit too curious with meddling with nightmare fuel technology even though he probably knows it destroyed the ancients.

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SkylordElberich    1102

Honestly, I would say a victim. Considering his age, it's not impossible that he lived through the horrors of the Great War (WWI to you and me) and his desire to obtain the nightmare throne is likely fueled by wanting to prevent similar wars from happening.

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Portmanteau    380

I don't think Wagstaff could be considered good nor evil given how little we know of his ultimate goal. What we do know is he is a man with insatiably morbid curiosities, and that's what makes him a potentially dangerous and compelling figure in the ongoing story.

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Mike23Ua    4318
9 minutes ago, Portmanteau said:

I don't think Wagstaff could be considered good nor evil given how little we know of his ultimate goal. What we do know is he is a man with insatiably morbid curiosities, and that's what makes him a potentially dangerous and compelling figure in the ongoing story.

What we do know is he had his own means of accessing the Constant By Holograms and his own portal in his factory, He Mass Produced Voxola Music Boxes (the same thing that sucked Wilson into the Constant) AND If That’s not enough He also created WX-78 who wants all fleshlings to die..

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__IvoCZE__    7393
13 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

he had his own means of accessing the Constant By Holograms and his own portal in his factory

so did Wilson under the pretense that it would be the next great success (Forbidden Knowledge)

13 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

He Mass Produced Voxola Music Boxes (the same thing that sucked Wilson into the Constant)

Which were "hi-jacked" by shadows/them/whateverentitythereis to do so.

The original Voxola radios were only radios- and good ones, that's why the few models (made before the factory fire) sold out so fast

13 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

 He also created WX-78 who wants all fleshlings to die..

WX-78 is literally a sentient killer automatic...

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Portmanteau    380

It's likely though that WX-78 wasn't created with destructive purpose in mind given he does have an "empathy module". It's just not responding for some reason, and that inevitably somehow led them to their hatred for all living things. Basically though, I don't understand how making all those things and WX-78 at all makes Wagstaff evil. Wagstaff doesn't even seem to know why his inventions are being used in The Constant, so why is he to blame?

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GetNerfedOn    4985

First, Wagstaff isn't evil per se, his intentions could even be considered noble as his exam quotes state his desire to "revolutionize the world". He wants technological progress and believes it can be found even in the most sinister of ways such as the Nightmare Throne and Nightmare Fuel.

Second, Wagstaff cannot be possibly be considered a victim IMO as he willingly has thrust himself into the Constant and even enjoys satiating his curiosity there, to the point that he is outright fascinated by being bitten by Charlie and experiencing death among other responses.

Third, I don't get why people say Wagstaff is just a projection, especially when they use his distortion effect as evidence:

    - First, the distortion  effect never was a direct implication of his being a projection in the first place. 

   - Second, if the distortion effect were a sign of Wagstaff's presence, his projection would probably have been immaterial/just an image. 

   - Owing to this, it wouldn't be feasible to call Wagstaff's manifestation in the Constant as a projection because he's tangible and:

           - is still pretty vulnerable to and can experience physical pain, hunger and psychic assaults from the Constant

           - is still limited by his eyesight and poor stomach

           - still needs to travel encumbered and on foot

   - Were he actually a projection Wagstaff would have no need to experience all these encumbrances, or would have designed his projection to not have all these encumbrances. It's rather counterintuitive considering that he's a scientist who strives for efficiency in his works.

   - Also, there's the fact that Wagstaff himself is missing from Earth. If he truly were controlling a projection, he would still be in Earth.

   - If one states that Wagstaff were controlling a projection in the Constant after he was brought in, it would also be counterintuitive given that he needs to give full attention to his projection throughout the day. Which would:

        - make him starve himself as he won't eat because he's busy controlling the projection, or,

        - make him especially vulnerable to monster attacks from Hounds, Giants and Charlie especially because he's busy controlling his projection, or,

        - make him have to setup lots of devices to protect him, which will eventually fail as he will eventually dedicate all his time to the projection, which leads to his machines either failing due to lack of maintenance, or being destroyed by hounds/giants/Charlie.

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Sunset Skye    8190
3 minutes ago, GetNerfedOn said:

Third, I don't get why people say Wagstaff is just a projection, especially when they use his distortion effect as evidence:

It's always bothered me too that people have just accepted the one interpretation of projecting as canon, when it can be interpreted in many different ways. Personally my theory is that Wagstaff got taken to the constant long before any of the other characters, and he's a "projection" as in the other definition: we're watching something that happened long ago, because Wagstaff's adventure in the constant happened in the past rather than the present.

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Hornete    2851
2 hours ago, Sunset Skye said:

Personally my theory is that Wagstaff got taken to the constant long before any of the other characters, and he's a "projection" as in the other definition: we're watching something that happened long ago, because Wagstaff's adventure in the constant happened in the past rather than the present.

Okay, I REALLY love this theory/idea that we're playing Wagstaff in a past period of time.

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Cassielu    66
8 hours ago, Dunk Mujunk said:

I think the most important part of the lore in regards to this topic is-

  • 1906 - 1910ish: Unknown "crazy stuff" happens.[1]
  • 1910ish - 1921: Over this time period, Maxwell starts taking people from the real world into The Constant. They are forced to survive the nightmare world he created.[1]
Quote

  BASEFAN = "Magnificent! What a marvel of engineering!",

In the real world. The oscillating fan was invented in 1908.

That's mean Wagstaff's projection into the constant before 1908.

Maybe "crazy stuff" is what Wagstaff did in the constant.

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Mike23Ua    4318
6 minutes ago, Cassielu said:

In the real world. The oscillating fan was invented in 1908.

That's mean Wagstaff's projection into the constant before 1908.

Maybe "crazy stuff" is what Wagstaff did in the constant.

Dun Dun dun DUNnnnnn 

(sorry had to add evil bad guy music.) Because... why not? :D 

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FuffledBeeQueen    3769

Don't trust a man that mentions strange things in his quotes, especially when met with a construct that can speed up or delay an apocalypse and he says "Wonderful, I wonder if I can make the world end sooner"

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Mike23Ua    4318

Is there any significant amounts of Wagstaff related lore in DST? He isn’t available on Consoles but I Know that in Single-Player Don’t Starve he was (I guess?) the only character who could Create the Item

“Electrical Doo-Dad.”

That Item is in DST, So I’m assuming there’s Wagstaff related lore Somewhere I’m just not finding it. :( 

This is NOT a Trolling post, I am genuinely Confused about a lot of Wagstaffs Lore, His Motives, and Rather or not if he is Villain Or Victim.

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axxel    1140
21 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Is there any significant amounts of Wagstaff related lore in DST? He isn’t available on Consoles but I Know that in Single-Player Don’t Starve he was (I guess?) the only character who could Create the Item

Winona short. It seems he didn't intent to be sucked up by the portal because he stretched his arms to Winona. unless it was someone else.

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Pop Guy    3608

I believe that Wagstaff embodies the scientist, detached from the consequences of his research, who ignores and wants to ignore the ethical dilemma.
Questionable and controversial behavior? Sure. But how can you blame him? The consequences of human actions are often so uncertain and unpredictable ... and when you are in the presence of otherworldly realities then what is "right" and "wrong" appears quite vague, I guess. In the end, in the world of nature everything happens out of necessity, for Gods all things are good. The human being creates the distinction between what is right and what is not; but things just happen in a strange and aimless universe, an endless mixing of strange and elusive particles. Wagstaff looks at us from up there, probably wondering why we are worried.

5e42587c191da_HolyWagstaff.thumb.png.b0e5c415232a28159080f5154930b1d1.png

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Mike23Ua    4318

The poll votes here favor him more as a Villain then as an innocent Victim.

Maybe more lore will change that in the future, or Perhaps it won’t..

Either way I made this thread to see what the community thought as a whole of Wagstaff. 

Now it’s ultimately up to Klei to decide rather they want to make him a true Villain or leave us all guessing on What Mister Wagstaffs been up to all along.

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1bubbainpa    1749

Wagstaff feels like a Wheatley from Portal 2. He may want to help the others escape at first by taking over the throne, but then would go on a power trip and go back on his word.

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