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FuffledBeeQueen    3769

DST has always felt a bit flat for a 3D Game if you know what I mean, but this could easily change, maybe not in Return of Them, maybe in a distant future, but I think it would be nice if we add a new concept into the game; Elevation

Now what do I mean by that, well DST has a Y-Axis, its not used much, but its there. now what if we could use it? or perhaps how? Well, let's Elevate the Terrerain.
Would it be too hard for the devs? I think no, not really. How Elevation could be pulled off would be quite simple same with physics and how they could be applied
(In Turfs)

K7WX2GH.png

Obviously this is not to scale, but it gives you the general idea of what it could look like. If we so chose to elevate a Tile, it would be impassable from the sides, since its physically higher than your current level (the wall texture could be the one we see on the ledges when close to the ocean) to enter such tiles, you would climb up from a slope. Slopes themselves are tiles on which you can't build anything since that's too much of a hassle. Their only function is to elevate the player. Now, how I'd like the generation for this to happen; Tiles wouldn't really be messy with this if you know what I mean.
LfCfvUA.png

This is a good example of what should be avoided. It's messy and just not nice to look at.











la5ShgM.png   



    This is a good example for what should be done. The Ledges are smooth and if ya get me it should
    increase in a pulse like manner instead of just random elevation everywhere around.

   But now, what would this allow you to do? Actually a lot. With Elevation you could make new biomes,
   mountains with frozen peak biomes with new creatures and old and what not, add new heights for         old biomes, such as keep your classic Forests and plains on the low height, but give the Savannah a     nice elevated level. Add Wall Creatures, Wall Dens, Waterfalls even? with the new water tech you         could probably make very nice rivers and such!





  Obviously Generation can also take a different approach, instead of 1 Tile Elevation, you could go 2, 3 and such! This is another example of how you can            make such thing real!
 teOdIIE.png

 You're probably curious how it could look in the actual game instead of these graph like sketches, well with the power of stretch and skew, I can give you a       demo/example of what this could look like.

5wltS2T.png

Obviously this is just image trickery, but it gets the idea across. Now for how impossible is this?
You'd be surprised when I tell you not really. Obviously Modders can't do this because it requires a few engine edits. but overall Im 99% sure the floor is already a 3D Cube (because of the ledges around the ocean) so there should be no problem to recreate this 'edge' for elevated Tiles, Slopes would need a new model and a few physic edits. The Boundry code would need another update to check for slopes and walls. Other than that engine wise it shouldn't be difficult.

I assume the Camera follows the player at a specified offset, so if the player's Y updates, the camera's should too, the only problem would be what happens when you walk infront of a wall and your camera starts clipping, well I think it could be possible to make the camera make the sides of the ledges invisible to the player and the upper top and give the player a dark outline around the screen to indicate they are looking through a wall.

Other than that the only problem would be, could the engine handle rendering too many entities when you are high up, an idea to mask this would be clouds the higher up you are, other than that that could be another challenge. but keep in mind Im not asking for 20 tile high mountains, I'd say a Max of 7 Elevations possible would be good limit.

Now, for those that don't believe the Engine can handle this, it can. Here is a mockup of how I did it
The 'Elevated Tile' (Big Wall) is a Cylinder of 2° with a Height of 2, default Wall height
The 'Slope' is made out of 10 Walls that are a Cylinder of 0.5° and a Height starting at .2 and increasing by .2 
Hq111wVmpY.gif

uwOiFdAQFF.gif

Other than that, yeah tell me what you think, could this be a theme for its own new 'DLC' theme? If you are a dev reading this, drop a comment too, is this in theory possible? or would it fail somehow? Im eager to see what you could also come up with in the comments! any ideas for something attached to the wall like a twig/root with a birds nest, decor or dens/cave entrances in the walls, Biomes high up on the mountains such as frozen peaks, and in general anything that comes to mind when hearing 'Elevation'.

Cheerio!

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Nickolai    1110

With walls theres so many possibilities like when you are insane nightmare cracks can open up that show blinking white eyes, and if you get close a hand will hit you, i made a concept below
image.thumb.png.51daf8493fb453e990b5286244ce9252.png

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SonicDen220    1516

Reminds me of the time when caves in singleplayer had walls. I haven't been playing the game at that time yet though.
This is the only image of really old caves I found:
latest?cb=20130514181244&path-prefix=ru

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Szczuku    12041

Seems interesting but I'm not fully convinced yet. Slopes and walls would create another limitation when it comes to base building.

On the other hand I really like the possibilities of decoration and atmpsphere. 

Though… wouldn't that be a bit of a stretch? With the new ocean Klei has came up with a good explanation: Chunk of the 'Moon' hit the ocean and changed it. How would you explain entire mountains suddently appearing out of nowhere?

Though I suppose we do see some slopes and what not in vidgetes and other official artworks

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Viktor234    3490

What's actually the use of them? Aren't they just same as indestructible walls which protect you from most kind of mobs? It might look like a good idea, but for now they won't provide too much new content.

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Nickolai    1110

Sinkholes can be on walls instead entering caves even more unique, certain biomes could have higher elevation than others, like the rocky biome, it can actually a mountain instead of a boring grey flat land. Some structures could be even placed on walls will a wall version of it giving it even more variety and creativity, truly this concept has endless possibilities.

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FuffledBeeQueen    3769
22 minutes ago, Viktor234 said:

What's actually the use of them? Aren't they just same as indestructible walls which protect you from most kind of mobs? It might look like a good idea, but for now they won't provide too much new content.

Well, in theory Land Edges are also indestructible walls, but the AI finds a way around them, this would be the same deal here, the mobs aren't stupid

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Nickolai    1110
Just now, __IvoCZE__ said:

what about megabases?

Well megabases will get more creative, and it depends on the location you put them, if in the desert then not a big problem since deserts are commonly flat, but if you choose a more hilly area you can make certain areas pens or even rooms with the different elevations and have the main area in the center

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YouKnowWho    7828

I'm still icky on how item placement and things would work, but it's clear you put a tremendous amount of effort and thinking into this. Seriously well done!

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Viktor234    3490
25 minutes ago, FuffledBeeQueen said:

Well, in theory Land Edges are also indestructible walls, but the AI finds a way around them, this would be the same deal here, the mobs aren't stupid

That's totally not what I meant, of course the mobs aren't that stupid, but with the implementation of that feature you won't have everywhere choke points anymore but just a single one or rather just a few choke points which can easily be shut via walls, statues, structures etc. I don't see any other point what that feature is suppoed to provide, besides pretty cheap but also very effective indestructable early game walls which are defending you from hounds or incoming bosses.

And there for sure will be ways to make the mobs keep running against the walls, in which case the AI won't find a way around them.

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Nickolai    1110
35 minutes ago, Viktor234 said:

That's totally not what I meant, of course the mobs aren't that stupid, but with the implementation of that feature you won't have everywhere choke points anymore but just a single one or rather just a few choke points which can easily be shut via walls, statues, structures etc. I don't see any other point what that feature is suppoed to provide, besides pretty cheap but also very effective indestructable early game walls which are defending you from hounds or incoming bosses.

And there for sure will be ways to make the mobs keep running against the walls, in which case the AI won't find a way around them.

Well you are not entirely safe, in dst you can put statues around and it would stop most enemies, with slopes bosses could just go up the slopes and destroy the blockade, even if hounds come they will go up the slope where you are, having them being "indestructible walls" is a invalid argument.
Even if this idea comes true, im pretty sure it would be a toggleable option

(i dont think i made sense there lol)

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Sweaper    463

You probably would need ladders in case an elevation doesn't have a ramp to the side leading to a certain biome. Or when exploring the world you'll need to go around and around until you find a ramp then around again until you find another ramp to continue exploring just like we now have to do with the over the top amount of rivers spawning in new worlds. If ladders were implemented Klei probably would make the recipe use wood and maybe grass.

OP is probably a Wortox main.

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Nickolai    1110
2 minutes ago, Sweaper said:

You probably would need ladders in case an elevation doesn't have a ramp to the side leading to a certain biome. Or when exploration go around and around until you find a ramp then around again until you find another ramp to continue exploring just like we now have to do with the over the top amount of rivers spawning in new worlds. If ladders were implemented Klei probably would make the recipe use wood and maybe grass. OP is probably a Wortox main.

and maybe later on make wooden slopes

 

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Mike23Ua    4407

This idea is perfect.. it keeps people from walking in a straight damn line all the time without you know.. actually having to explore the “Wilderness Survival” They we’re flung Into.

If they did These Elevated map layouts & Shortened Rivers So we cant exploit Boat Kits and toss them over into the water to bridge hop, there would be more exploration and less Walking a straight line.

i support this idea 125%

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Charesque    566

This may seem like a good idea, biome diversity and whatnot, but don't forget that elevations may cause some issues with the camera angle - this is  probably the main reason why caves are lacking walls nowadays.

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Nickolai    1110

Yeah we have a discord, and fuffles talked a lot about the idea and ideas of fixing issues like that
with plains and mountains, it would be more of a subtle rise than a very steep one

There are cannon mountains in DST its just not in gameplay, but with this terrain change it would make dst even more creative
image.thumb.png.6349e6c4eb42c8577ea021a6e680d905.png

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FuffledBeeQueen    3769
14 minutes ago, Charesque said:

This may seem like a good idea, biome diversity and whatnot, but don't forget that elevations may cause some issues with the camera angle - this is  probably the main reason why caves are lacking walls nowadays.

Yeah, clearly the Camera is the largest issue here, but Im sure there are some ways around that (besides flipping the camera angle)

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