Sign in to follow this  
Demky

What do I do wrong ? can't cool down water temperature/hydrogen temperature

Recommended Posts

Demky    0

Hello,
I have a lot of water a +/-70°C, i'm trying to cool down the water to use it without ruining my base.

I'm using weezewort, hydrogen from electrolyser, thermo regulator with tempshift plate and radiant pipe.

I really don't understand why isn't my water/hydrogen cooling down... :(

- The Hydrogen is at +/-50° out of hydrolyzer.
- The hydrogen go inside 4 thermo regulator and end at  -16°C
(the room if full of hydrogen at +/-20°C)

- the hydrogen hit the water (+/-60-70°C) at -14°C
- 5 secondes later the hydrogen is at 48°C... (radiant gaz pipe)


The water temperature is still at 60-70°C... 

What do I do wrong ?

 

Screenshots : 

1/ The base

tF8HGcO.jpg

2/ Temperature

RUVs7iA.jpg
 

3/ Hydrogen temperature before contact with water


V8wEOCi.jpg

 

4/ Hydrogen temperature when it hit water

5C47009E5154C0923EE13697161B1B473F0B0FA4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Neotuck    2,210

Better to use aqua tunners submerged in PW for now, then switch to steam turbines once you have steel production

Edited by Neotuck
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SamLogan    877
4 hours ago, Demky said:

Hello,
I have a lot of water a +/-70°C, i'm trying to cool down the water to use it without ruining my base.

There are some errors :

- Your pipe are not full so you downgrade the mass effect. 1Kg of hydrogen is cooling more than 100g.

- Enclose your pool because in your case you're trying to cool the water and all the gas around.

- Add a lot more wheezewort, use this calculator to help you : https://oni-assistant.com/tools/coolingcalculator

And as Neotuck, AT is really better to cool water as the coolant is a liquid so you have 10 Kg / sec of coolant versus 1 Kg of gas. Mass effect.

Also, cooling the water in early game is useless, if you need warm water, use those are from the bathroom (it produces 6 Kg / Duplicant / cycle) or the slime biome, it generate enough for your base. All the hot water, will be use for the electrolysers.

Store the hot water outside of your base.

 

Edited by SamLogan
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Gurgel    1,387

There is thins thing called "specific heat capacity" and ONI models it. It describes how much energy you need to add/remove from a specific material per weight unit (g)  to heat it up/cool it down. Water has a very high specific heat capacity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
psusi    188
13 hours ago, Gurgel said:

There is thins thing called "specific heat capacity" and ONI models it. It describes how much energy you need to add/remove from a specific material per weight unit (g)  to heat it up/cool it down. Water has a very high specific heat capacity.

It's less than double that of hydrogen.  The main reason is the large mass of the water compared to the mass of the hydrogen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
KittenIsAGeek    1,432

Here's some cooling math.  Lets consider the case of 1 segment of pipe filled with water at 70C and compare it to the cooling output of a single wheezewart in 2kg of hydrogen at 20C.

First, the thermal energy of the water:   Water has a SHC of 4.179 DTU/g/C.  So 4.179 x 10000g = 41790 DTU/C.  We have a temperature delta of 50C (70 - 20), so that leaves our water with  2.0895 million DTU of thermal energy to get rid of.

Next, lets look at the wheezewart.  I believe that it breathes in 1kg of gas, cools it by 5c, then breaths it back out.  Hydrogen has a SHC of 2.40 DTU/g/C.  So 2.4 x 1000 x 5 = 12000 DTU/s of cooling power.  So a single wheezewart will require 174 seconds to cool 10kg of 70c water down to 20c.  Clearly this is inefficient.

So how much water CAN you cool with a wheezewart in hydrogen?  4.179 DTU/g/C * 50C * Xg = 12000 DTU.  Xg = 12000 DTU / 4.179 DTU/g/C / 50C --> Xg = 12000 / 4.179 g/ 50 --> Xg = 57.43g.  One wheezewart can cool 57.43g of water from 70c to 20c in one second (assuming perfect conductivity).  Since you have 5 wheezewarts, you can effectively cool 287.15g/s of water.  If your wheezewarts are in hydrogen.

 

Now, lets look at a thermo regulator.  This machine allows you to cool a pipe full of gas by 14c.  Lets assume you're using hydrogen. A gas pipe has a capacity of 1000g.  This is the same capacity as a wheezewart, but is almost 3 times as much cooling power.  In fact, we can cool 2.4 x 1000 x 14 = 33600 DTU/s.  So a single thermo regulator (with hydrogen in the pipes) can cool 160.8g/s of water from 70c to 20c.  Remember, a pipe carries 10,000g/s of water.  So neither one of these methods will really work unless you have a lot of time on your hands.


For example, lets say you have a pool of 70c water.  Lets say its 6 tiles wide, 4 tiles deep.  That's 24000kg of water that isn't going anywhere.  Lets say you have a radiant gas pipe full of hydrogen that flows through that water, then through a thermo regulator, then through a room with 5 wheezewarts.  Combined, that's 93600 DTU/s of cooling power.  If your goal is water at 20c, then: ( 4.179 DTU/g/C x 24000kg x 50c ) / 93600 DTU/s = 53576.9s.  That's about 89.3 cycles to bring its temperature from 70c down to 20c.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fleetfeet    30

Thanks, @KittenIsAGeek !

This is a problem I feel like we all go through at some point, and the basic failing I certainly went through is understanding the very basics of the problem. It's easy to say "I want to cool down this 24 ton pool of water to 20c from 70c" without understanding that what we're actually saying is "I want to remove 5 billion units of thermal energy from this mass, and the greatest individual source of heat deletion I am using only removes 33,600 units of thermal energy per second"

a 24 ton pool of water isn't that big a pool. 5 billion units of thermal energy is a lot to deal with without some industrial grade cooling.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Gurgel    1,387
1 hour ago, Fleetfeet said:

Thanks, @KittenIsAGeek !

This is a problem I feel like we all go through at some point, and the basic failing I certainly went through is understanding the very basics of the problem. It's easy to say "I want to cool down this 24 ton pool of water to 20c from 70c" without understanding that what we're actually saying is "I want to remove 5 billion units of thermal energy from this mass, and the greatest individual source of heat deletion I am using only removes 33,600 units of thermal energy per second"

a 24 ton pool of water isn't that big a pool. 5 billion units of thermal energy is a lot to deal with without some industrial grade cooling.

A nice thing is that this par of Oni is modeled on real physics, so you learn something in addition.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Neotuck    2,210
31 minutes ago, Gurgel said:

A nice thing is that this par of Oni is modeled on real physics, so you learn something in addition.

Too bad not all of Oni is modeled in REAL physics

Like how a few grams of water can protect you from the vacuum of outer space 

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, Neotuck said:

Like how a few grams of water can protect you from the vacuum of outer space 

Spoiler

image.thumb.png.4a5c95ad81555a2a6e851b2c71b2d57f.png

 

Spoiler

 

39 minutes ago, Neotuck said:

REAL physics

damn it

  • Like 1
  • Haha 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Gurgel    1,387
2 hours ago, Neotuck said:

Too bad not all of Oni is modeled in REAL physics

Like how a few grams of water can protect you from the vacuum of outer space 

Well, a real physics simulation would be a different game. And we would probably get 0.1 FPS or so on a 64 core system if it was that. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this