sudoku

It's been almost 4 years since DST released and the game largely plays the same

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Jessie223    790

instead of saying "this should take more skill", explain how it should take more skill

it also shouldn't be a surprise to anybody that being better at a game makes it less challenging

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Crimson Chin    520
3 minutes ago, Jessie223 said:

instead of saying "this should take more skill", explain how it should take more skill

it also shouldn't be a surprise to anybody that being better at a game makes it less challenging

Does getting better at almost any other game completely remove challenge? No, but memory helps for sure. There is still some skill required in executing a movement/plan in any other game ...but not in DST. That's what I mean.. by "it should take more skill".. it shouldn't just be counting to 6 in your head and walking backwards a tiny bit. 

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Sweaper    375
2 minutes ago, Crimson Chin said:

Does getting better at almost any other game completely remove challenge? No, but memory helps for sure. There is still some skill required in executing a movement/plan in any other game ...but not in DST. That's what I mean.. by "it should take more skill".. it shouldn't just be counting to 6 in your head and walking backwards a tiny bit. 

I wonder how many people here have soloed B. Queen without any glitch or setup. Just with a limited amount of healing food and hambat/dark swords.

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Crimson Chin    520
Just now, Sweaper said:

I wonder how many people here have soloed B. Queen without any glitch or setup. Just with a limited amount of healing food and hambat/dark swords.

Yeah that's probably something I should have mentioned too. Exploits like that make the unengaging combat system even worse, since its not even fun. 

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X-lem    334
On 1/31/2020 at 12:48 PM, Bothead said:

I think the large problem with this is that the game is almost always predictable and there's basically no surprises. ...There could also be more weather events that aren't predictable at all. Or when a world is generated, it could have random traits that make some things easier and some things harder.

I like the idea of things being more random. I hate having to deal with the Antlion every summer. He's a fun boss, but I don't want to always have to fight him or appease him.

Maybe have several summer bosses and each summer you get a different one. Make some optional and others not. Same could go for other seasons.

I like the idea off a bit more randomness in world generation. We have a little bit of that in twiggy trees and juicy Berry bushes, but I would love to see more.

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2 hours ago, Crimson Chin said:

Does getting better at almost any other game completely remove challenge? No, but memory helps for sure. There is still some skill required in executing a movement/plan in any other game ...but not in DST. That's what I mean.. by "it should take more skill".. it shouldn't just be counting to 6 in your head and walking backwards a tiny bit. 

I don’t know about that. Dark Souls is always quoted and memed about being a nightmarishly difficult game that requires “skill”, but after playing it for 300 hours I can look away from my screen for all the boss fights and not really even worry about getting hit and the same goes for all the other people who put time. Whether they shake things up and you have to relearn or not, you’re going to get good at it, and you’re going to find a reason to talk about this again. Sandbox games (and not even just sandbox) rely on you making your own fun after a certain point. You can’t just expect yourself to enjoy the experience of doing the same things over and over. Also as a small side, give yourself more credit for thinking kiting is easy, because with my friends I play with, they’ve encountered deerclops at least 18x+ and most of them still would be dead if I didn’t help them kill it. It’s harder than you think for a good chunk of people! 

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Fi7iP    189

 

59 minutes ago, Nickolai said:

Maybe something like this could change it drastically,

 

I don't think Klei sometimes adds altitude to the game because:                                                                                                                                       1. It doesn't fit well in the course of DST,
2.It wouldn't tune in with the artistic style of the game
3.It would be a lot of glitchy.

Edited by Fi7iP
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Nickolai    1,024
1 minute ago, Fi7iP said:

 

I don't think Klei sometimes adds altitude to the game because:                                                                                                                                       1. It doesn't fit well in the course of DST,
2.It would be a very artistic style of the game.
3.It would be a lot of glitchy.

Fuffles has proved it is possible, the ground is already in 3D and DST has a y coordinate

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Crimson Chin    520
8 minutes ago, Kelloggs Dogfry said:

I don’t know about that. Dark Souls is always quoted and memed about being a nightmarishly difficult game that requires “skill”, but after playing it for 300 hours I can look away from my screen for all the boss fights and not really even worry about getting hit and the same goes for all the other people who put time. Whether they shake things up and you have to relearn or not, you’re going to get good at it, and you’re going to find a reason to talk about this again. Sandbox games (and not even just sandbox) rely on you making your own fun after a certain point. You can’t just expect yourself to enjoy the experience of doing the same things over and over. Also as a small side, give yourself more credit for thinking kiting is easy, because with my friends I play with, they’ve encountered deerclops at least 18x+ and most of them still would be dead if I didn’t help them kill it. It’s harder than you think for a good chunk of people! 

I appreciate the compliment :D, but if we compare my... uhh kiting.. "skills" to being able to play dark souls without looking is kind of laughable, its very easy to see here which one really requires more skill. These games have immensely different combat systems and dark souls' is obviously the better one. Now, I'm not sure how many people are able to play dark souls blindfolded, but I'm pretty sure anyone can tell you its at least a tiny bit harder than counting to 6 in your head and slightly walking away from a beefalo. Kiting in DST is memory. I assure you, anyone can do it once they remember how many hits each enemy is. The difference between learning an enemy in dark souls, or a lot of other game's with drastically better combat systems, is that you still have to execute a movement/strategy and can still very well fail. I'm not specifically asking for something as intense as Dark Souls, but just ANYTHING that is more engaging. 

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Sweaper    375
25 minutes ago, Crimson Chin said:

I appreciate the compliment :D, but if we compare my... uhh kiting.. "skills" to being able to play dark souls without looking is kind of laughable, its very easy to see here which one really requires more skill. These games have immensely different combat systems and dark souls' is obviously the better one. Now, I'm not sure how many people are able to play dark souls blindfolded, but I'm pretty sure anyone can tell you its at least a tiny bit harder than counting to 6 in your head and slightly walking away from a beefalo. Kiting in DST is memory. I assure you, anyone can do it once they remember how many hits each enemy is. The difference between learning an enemy in dark souls, or a lot of other game's with drastically better combat systems, is that you still have to execute a movement/strategy and can still very well fail. I'm not specifically asking for something as intense as Dark Souls, but just ANYTHING that is more engaging. 

In DST people will cheese some bosses, most of those are the harder ones. Is DS you can cheese bosses too. You can even use glitches or unintended interaction in both games.

The same way there are tutorials for DST to make almost everything trivial there are those for DS too.

Killing a beefalo in DST is like killing your slow hollows in DS. Both easy, both requires some basic memory to not get hit. Killing a group of beefalos can be harder than a group of hollows and vice versa depending on what you're using.

Now try to solo B Queen with a hambat to see how many times you'll die trying. BOOM!! We just got the DaRk SoULs oF SuRvIvAl GaMeS.

Want something more engaging in DST? Stop playing safe and risk your life, but you don't want to die in DST so keep on complaining (edit) about difficulty.

Edited by Sweaper

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Mantas    763
1 hour ago, Nickolai said:

Maybe something like this could change it drastically, (credit to Fuffles)
image.png.2d2a817dc8a2b66e4bc90f9c18e73cab.png

Okay, this would so damn cool if the game would introduce us to having actual hills and such, like in vignettes.

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Mike23Ua    2,971
8 hours ago, Shosuko said:

GTA4 is still GTA4, so the game didn't reinvent its self.  League of Legends is still League of Legends even though balance patches and new abilities have altered what is meta.  Gta4 vs Gta5 are two completely different games, such as from DS to DST.

 Okay well Season 1 and 2 of Apex Legends took place on the same map, when Season 3 happened they destroyed the original map and moved us to a brand new planet.

is THIS the kind of change your talking about that DST should have?

I mean crap like that really only works in Free to Play games because I don’t know about you but.. I don’t buy a game because it is One thing.. and then years later they Change it into something completely unrecognizable that I may not even like..

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Mantas    763

Only other thing is maybe I am tired of seeing flat world, having hills and stuff like that would make it a little more livelier for basebuilding and thinking of new ways of building and enjoyable pleasing to the eye 3D changes. We been getting a lot of 2D content, seeing the world more advanced of how it would generate would be super awesome.
On the other note from the first post, I would love to see the world having actual changes to weather events, having some sort of actual more life changing threats if not approached well would change our tactics and want to actually build structures we barely built ever. At least for once I would feel like clothing was actually designed for SOMETHING than just a neat little knitknack. Maybe these new updates will make the world changed and new. Something like these changes would actually make this game feel unique than being same old nostalgia we all replay on multiple worlds.
I don't hesitate to spend money on skins since Klei is doing their best, and I hope at least they will change things how this game is! I am slightly tired of everything having to be optional, but I will admit those things are quite neat but gameplay wise new players barely explore new content or are less forced to cause they don't get to explore things that are exciting, for veterans we want something to compete with newer titles that keep coming out, or just to get the expectations to feel like the game could feel more like a survival game. Or just feel less dead.

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Nickolai    1,024
1 minute ago, Mantas said:

Only other thing is maybe I am tired of seeing flat world, having hills and stuff like that would make it a little more livelier for basebuilding and thinking of new ways of building and enjoyable pleasing to the eye 3D changes. We been getting a lot of 2D content, seeing the world more advanced of how it would generate would be super awesome.

Omg spot on, may i post this on the Elevation post?

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Crimson Chin    520
3 minutes ago, Sweaper said:

In DST people will cheese some bosses, most of those are the harder ones. Is DS you can cheese bosses too. You can even use glitches or unintended interaction in both games.

The same way there are tutorials for DST to make almost everything trivial there are those for DS too.

Killing a beefalo in DST is like killing your slow hollows in DS. Both easy, both requires some basic memory to not get hit. Killing a group of beefalos can be harder than a group of hollows and vice versa depending on what you're using.

Now try to solo B Queen with a hambat to see how many times you'll die trying. BOOM!! We just got the DaRk SoULs oF SuRvIvAl GaMeS.

Want something more engaging in DST? Stop playing safe and risk your life, but you don't want to die in DST so keep on complaining (edit) about difficulty.

What! Of course I don't want to die, that's the entire point of a survival game! Kiting bee queen might be harder than counting to 6 with that beefalo example... but that doesn't make it a fun or engaging combat system.. Most of the DST bosses are just health sponges. And like I said, I think exploits just add to the problem. Why would I suffer through a long boss fight since the combat system isn't fun when I could just cheese a boss? Its such a silly thing to suggest that this is somehow the player's fault. Of course you can create your own fun with sandboxes, but that core experience still should be engaging and fun. I think you need to realize how shallow DST's combat system is, ESPECIALLY when compared to Dark Souls. Difficulty isn't the only thing I'm complaining about here, combat in DST just isn't fun.

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Sweaper    375
Just now, Crimson Chin said:

What! Of course I don't want to die, that's the entire point of a survival game! Kiting bee queen might be harder than counting to 6 with that beefalo example... but that doesn't make it a fun or engaging combat system.. Most of the DST bosses are just health sponges. And like I said, I think exploits just add to the problem. Why would I suffer through a long boss fight since the combat system isn't fun when I could just cheese a boss? Its such a silly thing to suggest that this is somehow the player's fault. Of course you can create your own fun with sandboxes, but that core experience still should be engaging and fun. I think you need to realize how shallow DST's combat system is, ESPECIALLY when compared to Dark Souls. Difficulty isn't the only thing I'm complaining about here, combat in DST just isn't fun.

Why would you suffer through a long boss in DS when you could cheese it?

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sudoku    257

The problem with optional bosses is that they pose no real threat or challenge to the player. Because of the fact that they will sit on the map indefinitely waiting for you to be fully prepared to fight them. And even if you do fight them the risk/reward is not worth it. I mean look at d fly or moosegoose in singleplayer vs in multiplayer. The single player versions are 10x more engaging and more of a threat to the player simply because they are made to act as a threat to the player and seek them out. And obviously if bosses like bequeen and toadstool became more of a threat to the players survival they would be tuned to account for the player having to prepare for those fights in addition to their normal survival.

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Crimson Chin    520
21 minutes ago, Sweaper said:

Why would you suffer through a long boss in DS when you could cheese it?

I'm absolutely not saying Don't Starve's combat system is better than DST's, if that's what you are implying. They are the same exact thing.

EDIT: Sorry for the confusion. Actually fighting through a long Dark Souls Boss can be rewarding and fun since the combat system is actually engaging... unlike DST's

Edited by Crimson Chin
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Sweaper    375
1 minute ago, Crimson Chin said:

I'm absolutely not saying DS's combat system is better than DST's, if that's what you are implying. They are the same exact thing.

By DS I meant both Dark Souls and Don't Starve (Together). The same thing you said applies to both.

Edited by Sweaper

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Crimson Chin    520
5 minutes ago, Sweaper said:

Make it a requirement/threat. Someone comes with the best way to kill it. Becomes repetitive. Back to where we started.

If that boss was fun to fight thanks to a nice combat system, maybe it wouldn't get as repetitive.

3 minutes ago, Sweaper said:

By DS I meant both Dark Souls and Don't Starve (Together). The same thing you said applies to both.

In what ways are they the same at all really? I'd explain why... they aren't... but I would just be repeating myself.

Edited by Crimson Chin
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