sudoku

It's been almost 4 years since DST released and the game largely plays the same

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OMERICA    859
Just now, sudoku said:

 

I've already stated multiple times the core is good. Why play another game when 

1. I love it

2. Klei is adding new content 

And 3. Why is giving suggestions on future content that is already being developed considered complaining? 

Those words aren’t actually directly meant  for you. Of course getting new content and making suggestions about it is not complaining, but some people was saying this game is repetitive at its core and needs changing. I was replying to them but I didn’t want to start anything personal so I just write it out there.

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sudoku    257
14 minutes ago, Well-met said:

This^.

games don't "re-invent" themselves each year or so. You and the game alike are getting older, that's all.

I mean is adding a playable sea not reinventing what was essentially a non playable one that existed for 3 years.

Edited by sudoku
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Sweaper    375
1 minute ago, sudoku said:

I mean is adding a playable sea not reinventing what was essentially a non playable one.

Quote

It's been almost 4 years since DST released and the game largely plays the same

21 minutes ago, Well-met said:

games don't "re-invent" themselves each year or so. You and the game alike are getting older, that's all.

4 years =/= each year or so

Added content =/= reinventing the game

 

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sudoku    257
Just now, Sweaper said:

4 years =/= each year or so

Added content =/= reinventing the game

 

lol. I am not asking for them to reinvent the game. I am giving suggestions on future content. If they can turn a non playable sea into a playable one, im not too sure why you think the content i have suggested is farfetched. If you do not like the content I have suggested then I thought we would agree to disagree. I understand not everyone has the same idea for what type of content they want added. Perhaps creating another thread with your content suggestions would prove fruitful. 

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Sweaper    375
Just now, sudoku said:

lol. I am not asking for them to reinvent the game. I am giving suggestions on future content. If they can turn a non playable sea into a playable one, im not too sure why you think the content i have suggested is farfetched. If you do not like the content I have suggested then I thought we would agree to disagree. I understand not everyone has the same idea for what type of content they want added. Perhaps creating another thread with your content suggestions would prove fruitful. 

I'm not the one who said you were reinventing the game. I didn't say your suggestion is farfetched, just that you're putting annoyances to make player do something he already can do and adding grinding for the sake of changing the gameplay that at the end won't change the gameplay. But these things I already said and you already knew and we agreed to disagree on this, so I don't know exactly why you needed to repeat that.

I don't need anything added to change gameplay, there are plenty of ways to change your gameplay already.

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sudoku    257
Just now, Sweaper said:

so I don't know exactly why you needed to repeat that.

Because you keep commenting. Your discussion that you believe these types of additions would do nothing but add grind has been noted. I don't really have much else to say to you in regards to your opinons.   

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Sweaper    375
3 minutes ago, sudoku said:

Because you keep commenting. Your discussion that you believe these types of additions would do nothing but add grind has been noted. I don't really have much else to say to you in regards to your opinons.   

I commented because you asked how the game wasn't being reinvented already, not because I'm arguing about the original post. Two different subjects.

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sudoku    257
47 minutes ago, Well-met said:

games don't "re-invent" themselves each year or so.

Yes and that was not directed towards you, so in your persistence to jump in try and counter everything i post, you misunderstood my post.  Well-met was implying my suggestions of adding content that affects normal game play would re-invent the game. I provided the example of the ocean being added which is content that more or less affects the normal game ( or is agreed by many that it should which is why so many people ask for a more fleshed out ocean and lunar biome). So yes by Well-met's definition of re-inventing they have already done so. I was asking a rhetorical question to him. 

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Sweaper    375
2 minutes ago, sudoku said:

Yes and that was not directed towards you, so in your persistence to jump in try and counter everything i post, you misunderstood my post.  Well-met was implying my suggestions of adding content that affects normal game play would re-invent the game. I provided the example of the ocean being added which is content that more or less affects the normal game ( or is agreed by many that it should which is why so many people ask for a more fleshed out ocean and lunar biome). So yes by Well-met's definition of re-inventing they have already done so. I was asking a rhetorical question to him. 

I'm pretty sure Well-met was quoting OMERICA, and OMERICA wasn't specifically talking to you.

And reinventing a game is far away from adding content in a game.

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Mike23Ua    2,984

About the “games don’t re-invent themselves every year or So..”

I think I and a billion other people can PROVE that they do.

Here I’ll give 3 or 4 good examples.

GTA 4 and GTA V

Red Dead Redemption & RDR 2.

Gears Of War Judgement & GoW 4.

and just encase those examples aren’t enough to satisfy you-

Batman Arkham City and Batman Arkham Knight.

Absolutely NOONE who played Arkham City Wanted or Expected to have a Transforming Tank Car shoved down their throat for 90% of the game, Because anyone who knows anything at all about Batman’s actual origins  knows that using a Tank with more weapons on it then a small Militia goes completely against everything he was created from.

So I believe I rest my case when I say games DO re-Invent themselves.. and they do it quite often For Better or For Worse.

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sudoku    257
4 hours ago, WoodieMain45684 said:

To be completely fair, klei has already tried to shake up the gameplay at it’s core a little bit. How? Well, they added the different resource varieties to make the early game different than just picking a bunch of twigs and grass. I like this to be completely honest; this style of change is great aside from the fact that either the caves or world regrowth will give you access to the other set of resources. More things like this is what would make the core gameplay loop more fun. Instead of adding 90 more things to do in the autumn it would be a better idea to change up how things behave and when things come each time so it allows the player to experiment with their environment. Maybe changing world gen as well to be a bit more random, (but not stupid like some worlds when they have 5 roads over one point).                     Experimentation: This is what don’t starve was about when we started after all. It was all just one big experiment on how we can survive and maximize resources while enjoying the theme.

They also have the Winters feast versions of the bosses. At the very least I'd like to see those implemented in the main game maybe as year 2 versions of the bosses. 

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1v0    869

I think at the moment they are on the mind set - "If it isn't broken don't fix it" when it comes to base gameplay...

 

 

To tell the truth I don't want an reinventing of the game I want improvements, It's now a multiplayer game, and with this the base survival should be changed to be an actual survival. It did work in DS because you are alone but when you are 1+ ppl , it feels lacking...

For a time I liked where they were going , examples - ewecus (you need to be 2 ppl to beat it) , alternative resources and stone trees...

But since that all(mostly) content has been optional... I have been on the lunar island only twice ... I just don't have a reason to go there same goes for the sea (thou I have been there more often).

The game just needs more it needs improvements to make it into a real multiplayer survival game, the old DS forumla is good but I think it needs improvemnt for DST. (I can give many example but let's not make this an wall of text).

 

 

Lastly ... I have the feeling the game is now mainly focused on optional and cosmetics, to make this game more casual... That is not bad... The bad part is when the survival part is left behind. And I loved this game because of survival.

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Mike23Ua    2,984
24 minutes ago, 1v0 said:

I think at the moment they are on the mind set - "If it isn't broken don't fix it" when it comes to base gameplay...

 

 

To tell the truth I don't want an reinventing of the game I want improvements, It's now a multiplayer game, and with this the base survival should be changed to be an actual survival. It did work in DS because you are alone but when you are 1+ ppl , it feels lacking...

For a time I liked where they were going , examples - ewecus (you need to be 2 ppl to beat it) , alternative resources and stone trees...

But since that all(mostly) content has been optional... I have been on the lunar island only twice ... I just don't have a reason to go there same goes for the sea (thou I have been there more often).

The game just needs more it needs improvements to make it into a real multiplayer survival game, the old DS forumla is good but I think it needs improvemnt for DST. (I can give many example but let's not make this an wall of text).

 

 

Lastly ... I have the feeling the game is now mainly focused on optional and cosmetics, to make this game more casual... That is not bad... The bad part is when the survival part is left behind. And I loved this game because of survival.

No it is made this way because if they made everything require multiple players then solo players wouldn’t be able to play alone happily anymore.

 

What needed to happen with this game is Borderlands style enemy and world content scaling based on how many players are in the session. 

Because forcing co-operative content for the sake of it being Co-operative content just really isn’t a good thing.

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1v0    869

Well there is no need to make everything for 2+ players! The problem is that nothing is for 2+ players when it comes to survival (you can survive alone as long as you want)...

Before I forget ! This is a survival game ... or was an "uncompromising survival"(maybe this is true for DS but not for DST) game... As you said forcing co-op is not good well yea but for a survival game it would be cool to force co-op to survive... but then again this is no longer a survival game... (solo players can aways play DS)

like if you want to make it past 2 years or see the end game learn to play and to co-op ,if you don't well keep playing in the biomes you know are safe. For now there is nothing that require you to go and fight as a team(in a multiplayer game).

I get what you mean - think about new/solo players... It might be selfish but for solo players there is DS (solo game) for new players well live and learn ! That is the beauty of an survival game.

I don't want to force hard content on ppl that want just to chillout in DST. But I want hard content for veteran players, for example after you do xxxxxxx (active the Ancient Gateway or something else) ,that means you need to overcome something for it = you need to be a veteran player , to get that hard to survive content.

 

If ppl want that content well they better get good at the game. It's a simple skill/level progression.

 

If I can be blunt and this might sound rude (thou I don't want it to)!

It's like an MMO where all monster are level 1-10 and all veteran players are level 30 and don't have what to do(because all monsters are 10 level max) while the new/chill players are OK with those 10 level monsters... I'm waiting for that new and hard to survive content, and this topic made me realize it's been 4 years waiting for it...

 

Sidenote: Sorry about my rant... I'm just salty and I know it... As a longtime DS player that is here for the survival... it just feels like this game is no longer for me... I wanna play multiplayer DS with my friends(look at hamlet/shipwrecked kind of difficulty). I used to joke that this is the Dark souls of survival games... maybe but only for DS... not for DST...

 

 

Edited by 1v0
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Mike23Ua    2,984

I believe you may want to look into that, A LOT of what I’ve learned while playing DST is knowledge that I did not know while playing Solo DS..

and I used the DST knowledge to conquer and laugh at Solo DS..

For Example In DST Thermal Stones will wear down over time, when they go from hot or cold back to their normal default temperatures.

In Solo DS Thermal Stones Didn’t even wear down over use.

So in many ways- DST is harder than Solo DS, But In others...

DST still has a long way to go.

Simply adding the Obsidian Pillars that require players to be sane or insane to access certain locations, Or Giving Spider Warriors Shipwrecked Poison Damage over Time would be just enough of a change to freshen up DST.

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ArubaroBeefalo    741
23 hours ago, Ismael Marin said:

The optional content is barely any rewarding, Klaus? Is optional, don't even bother killing him, he will drop garbage... All optional bosses give things that don't help with your survival and are pretty much useless... I wish DST was more rewarding. 

sure, dragonflys furnace , 10% krampus sack from klaus, bee queens loot, etc are useless 

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Mike23Ua    2,984

I’m sorry but I just can’t see the OP’s point of view, they state that 4 Years and the game is the same.. yet Klei is currently busy busting their ass around the clock to provide us all with:

Fun Little Seasonal Events

New Character & Belongings Skins (some of Which are fan-inspired)

Brand New Characters Winona, Wormwood, Wortox, Wurt and Theres still at least one more left to come..

Original Character Reworks to freshen up their gameplay and make them even more Unique- Such as Willow with Bernie, and Woodie with his new found Were-Transformations.

Brand New Core Gameplay Content in the theme of Return of Them Updates that are adding to the game one patch update at a time.

Which have added Boats, Sailable Seas, New Craftables, New Fishing Mechanics, New Biomes, New Mobs & More.

We are all very sorry that you don’t feel that this Game has changed much- but Simply just playing as Wilson and then Playing as Wurt can show anyone how much it has.

 

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Voidbarker    182

Return of Them stuff feels kind of optional in regards to supposedly being part of the core gameplay loop. The Bee Queen is a strictly optional boss that can be summoned by hammering a giant hive, and has small benefits for not defeating her as soon as she pops back up again in the form of free honey.

Like, yeah, you can go out and get enough salt for a saltbox, but it's strictly optional and would probably only really benefit people that store ingredients in large batches or Warly players.

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Frashaw27    778
3 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Simply adding the Obsidian Pillars that require players to be sane or insane to access certain location

Yes they are. I told you before, in the atrium they are used for this exact reason. They are also deter you from the Ancient Fuelweaver and its goodiea and ruin reset potential. Theu are being used in a very impactful way that requires you to be prepared, but doesn't effect players that aren't accustomed to the game yet.

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Sweaper    375
18 minutes ago, Voidbarker said:

Return of Them stuff feels kind of optional in regards to supposedly being part of the core gameplay loop. The Bee Queen is a strictly optional boss that can be summoned by hammering a giant hive, and has small benefits for not defeating her as soon as she pops back up again in the form of free honey.

Like, yeah, you can go out and get enough salt for a saltbox, but it's strictly optional and would probably only really benefit people that store ingredients in large batches or Warly players.

It's better to have more optional stuff than to have more required things to do, here is why. To survive a year you'll need a minimum of X items, some can survive through a lava pit and lightbulbs alone, but let's take the average player for example. That player will need at least a thermal stone, a light source through torches or some lantern/hat and an umbrella (maybe weapons too or they can just let the bosses die by their own), I'll ignore food because it varies from character. Now if we add the things OP suggested you would get a few more bosses that are required to kill unless you're willing to be annoyed by their gimmicks, so for B Queen you would need a lot of armor because of her minions or find bunnies and build them around her, sure her HP would be lower because she is now a semi-obligatory boss, but still you will need to go out of what you were doing just to get rid of her gimmicky, same thing with all the other bosses he suggested, you'll need to make a boat, or some specific clothes, maybe some new item or go caves searching for Toad. So, from the X number of items to survive the year you'll now need X+Y and the bosses will keep respawning or being annoying if you don't kill them every year or so. If they were optional, like some of them are, you have the choice to go for Y (actually something less than Y) if you want to kill some of the optional boss or go to some of the optional places and you won't need to stop everything you're doing just to deal with them.

So from have the choice of having to get more items to kill a boss now you're now stuck having to get those items and drop what you were working on no matter what and deal with these bosses. Not a big deal, until you realize you'll need to keep doing these every time whether you want or not, it gets worse in a public server considering you'll have to waste more time to, for example, make a boat to kill the new boss OP suggested that appears in the Lunar island instead of doing what you were going to do, and we all know how long it can take to make a boat and find the island if you don't have the borders of the map revealed yet, have fun wasting 10+ days if lucky just for that in a public server where you'll play at most for 20-30 days.

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sudoku    257
4 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

I’m sorry but I just can’t see the OP’s point of view, they state that 4 Years and the game is the same.. yet Klei is currently busy busting their ass around the clock to provide us all with:

Fun Little Seasonal Events

New Character & Belongings Skins (some of Which are fan-inspired)

Brand New Characters Winona, Wormwood, Wortox, Wurt and Theres still at least one more left to come..

Original Character Reworks to freshen up their gameplay and make them even more Unique- Such as Willow with Bernie, and Woodie with his new found Were-Transformations.

Brand New Core Gameplay Content in the theme of Return of Them Updates that are adding to the game one patch update at a time.

Which have added Boats, Sailable Seas, New Craftables, New Fishing Mechanics, New Biomes, New Mobs & More.

We are all very sorry that you don’t feel that this Game has changed much- but Simply just playing as Wilson and then Playing as Wurt can show anyone how much it has.

Skins are not gameplay content.

 

 

I said it plays largely the same. I also said I appreciate the updates they have given us. 

Seasonal events are nice and all but they are no gorge or forge type events. The season of the carrat event boils down to watching a carrat  play out running and training animations, while cute, offer no real gameplay.

New characters and reworks are much appreicated. In fact, if characters can be reworked to change or enhance their gameplay why can't seasons or bosses be the same.

They do add gameplay content and maybe it is wrong to use the world meaningless. The content is not connected. Everything exists in its own little bubble. Nothing they have added connects back to the core game. Interconnected content means that there is more depth to it.

Pretend seasons don't exist for a minute and they were going to be added in the next update. If they followed the pattern of new content, those seasons would most likely be their own biome you have the option of visiting but can ignore it completely if you want. A frozen winter biome, a hot summer desert, etc. and not the seasons we currently have.  

People say they want the option of doing the new content. They don't want to be forced. Well the game already has the option for you to tailor the game to your liking in world gen settings. But on the flip side i can't go into world gen settings and create more depth. The developers sacrifice that when they make the content optional from the getgo . 

 

Edited by sudoku
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Moonatik    117

There's few questions:

Maybe the sea was the hardest thing to put in the game, introducing RoT ?

Now it's done, and now we passed 3 events in a row (end of year is full), we're almost sure we'll see soon real world contents.

What do we want, what do we need ? I'm not for a separate hard mode. So I'm for this idea to keep the journey, after opening the gateway. The gateway is clearly a "to be continued". Or they'll miss something. So they have to, we want it, they know it, right ?

But it doesnt mean nightmare already. If you look the fuelweaver trip (statues, find and visit the ruins, ancient guardian, shadows, atrium), we could expect a similar trip somewhere else, based on the moon biome, a new cave biome and a 2nd or a 3rd island somewhere (weird creepy island with dungeons/ruins and an island with a pig town, or a town, or npcs). Finding, getting few objects, to complete the magic trick, which could be long, AND THEN, going to this new "atrium" and why not having finally the opportunity to start something hard. 

 

My idea is to obtain the power to summon the Darkness on your entire world. We would decide when.

You think beequeen is useless ? But one year with dust and night only, strange weather, with some little waves of insanity (like dogs attacks), insane mobs, and you'll like the bee crown. 

Toad useless ? Unless you need some lights to save your ass during this cycle.

They'll be no trees, no plants, no life. How you'll prepare at least one year of emptiness ? Adventure mode, in real, in your world. You could need to kill ALL the optionnals to try your best. 

This "hard mode" could recquier to do everything first, existing things, and things to come related RoT. In real they will maybe just add the step just after the gateway, but even with that I hope they'll add few new steps. A first boss on the moon biome, not necessary hard, just a step. And more to finally go to the last room, fully equiped with the good objects.

And even if all of this is optionnal, you'll do it for the challenge. Challenge, hard mode, survival. I would like SO MUCH to play that part where I'm wondering how many woods I safe, how many food for at least one or two years, how many package of dragon fruit pie, meet, light balls, twigs, grass... Will I have enough ? Will i defeat the new bosses of this cycle ? Will I end it ?

It could be a real game over if you don't have stuff enough, because you would be too far to rollback, so you'll die, starving for real with empty chests and your 5 last logs, light enough to accept it, and hearing them coming for you. Or her.

Dead game.Retry from day 1.

Survival, and survive a real and long journey, where you would have to do almost everything the game has to offer to take your only chance. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Moonatik

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