It's been almost 4 years since DST released and the game largely plays the same

[Yuuko]

I don't think this game has much room to add extra things to the world.  I already have an extremely busy schedule in this game, and until about day 100 am still trekking through content just to establish myself.  I really get frustrated in times where I need to wait for a hound attack to trigger, or the season to change before I do XYZ as it is...  I'd really hate to have to wait for anything else.

With that in mind you could vary the game by adding new boss options, and having which boss is spawned on you be randomly selected.  So you could have deerclopse or yetibaba, but I don't really wanna be sitting there on 2 spawn counters while I'm trying to explore, build, gather resources, deal with hound attacks, and set up for bigger bosses.

The big sin I have with games is I hate when you just have to sit and wait for something to happen.  Often I'm waiting for a hound wave to spawn so I can go do XYZ afterwards without worrying about the hound wave.  Similarly if I want to do something top side summer wildfires quickly put the lid on that...  These two events cause a lot of base sitting, and I don't like it.  If we're looking for room to build more onto the game I'd start by knocking these two things off completely, they would open up a lot of design space in the "forced challenge" part of this game for new content.

Note: I am a solo player.  Maybe with 20 players in your game everything is done in a week, but as a solo player the game is quite an adventure in time management, and all the optional content gives me a lot to do, so no the game is not stale to me even after thousands of hours.

[Sweaper]

Avoid tutorials and the wiki (and maybe even console commands to test an update) so you can expand the lifetime of updates. The moment you read on it you'll lose the trial and error aspect of the game, which is a big part of the game before it gets stale.

Even if Klei added more stuff, people would still read all the new stuff and then come here to complain that everything is too predictable a few months later. Yeah, no s* everything is predictable, you just read how everything works and the best ways to abuse the new stuff.

[sudoku]

20 minutes ago, Sweaper said:

Avoid tutorials and the wiki (and maybe even console commands to test an update) so you can expand the lifetime of updates. The moment you read on it you'll lose the trial and error aspect of the game, which is a big part of the game before it gets stale.

Even if Klei added more stuff, people would still read all the new stuff and then come here to complain that everything is too predictable a few months later. Yeah, no s* everything is predictable, you just read how everything works and the best ways to abuse the new stuff.

If they were to add seasonal variants based on rng it becomes less of i know how to survive this and more of okay which way do i need to survive which inherently changes your seasonal strategy then preparing the same seasonal clothing and fighting the same seasonal boss while adding variety to the stale formula that is the same every time. For me, personally, it isnt "I know how to play the game so its boring" and more of "its boring because the challenges are the same every time". If there were 2 or 3 seasonal variants for each season sure you could read the wiki and discover what you need to do but you would still be doing different things for that season.  

[Sweaper]

24 minutes ago, sudoku said:

If they were to add seasonal variants based on rng it becomes less of i know how to survive this and more of okay which way do i need to survive which inherently changes your seasonal strategy then preparing the same seasonal clothing and fighting the same seasonal boss while adding variety to the stale formula that is the same every time. For me, personally, it isnt "I know how to play the game so its boring" and more of "its boring because the challenges are the same every time". If there were 2 or 3 seasonal variants for each season sure you could read the wiki and discover what you need to do but you would still be doing different things for that season.  

Unless the items are extremely hard to get, having more seasonal variants wouldn't matter as much at the end of the day either.

Thermal stone is cheap, this with a torch covers all seasons if you have cave enabled otherwise you would need some nitre, and nitre is another cheap item that you can get while getting materials for the thermal stone.

The other seasons shouldn't be too hard item wise to get, Klei wouldn't limit items for crafting seasonal clothes to Ruins or Lunar Island for obvious reasons, what they could do is add new clothes that either use some preexisting item, create new mobs and/or plants or a mix of these. The mobs wouldn't be too hard to kill and if that were the case those clothes would have worse alternative(s), which most of them already do in a way that let's (casual) players to avoid combat.

So, all you're really doing is extending the early game grind for materials after you learn what to do. And everyone knows how fun it is to grind materials over doing something you want to do.

[sudoku]

10 minutes ago, Sweaper said:

Unless the items are extremely hard to get, having more seasonal variants wouldn't matter as much at the end of the day either.

Thermal stone is cheap, this with a torch covers all seasons if you have cave enabled otherwise you would need some nitre, and nitre is another cheap item that you can get while getting materials for the thermal stone.

The other seasons shouldn't be too hard item wise to get, Klei wouldn't limit items for crafting seasonal clothes to Ruins or Lunar Island for obvious reasons, what they could do is add new clothes that either use some preexisting item, create new mobs and/or plants or a mix of these. The mobs wouldn't be too hard to kill and if that were the case those clothes would have worse alternative(s), which most of them already do in a way that let's (casual) players to avoid combat.

So, all you're really doing is extending the early game grind for materials after you learn what to do. And everyone knows how fun it is to grind materials over doing something you want to do.

I gave an example of a seasonal variant for winter in my original post which goes beyond simply adding new items and instead focuses on changing your strategy. For example blizzards which spawn during colder winters. If you want to travel in one you have to sacrifice your headgear for goggles allowing you to see, this means you will get cold faster. Fires go out quicker due to the heavy snowfall so thermal stones wont be able to charge as quickly. To counter this maybe you will choose to leave your backpack at home while your out travelling in the blizzard so you can wear a winter vest or a hibearnation vest and stay out longer. Maybe you dont plan on travelling that far and dont need the extra warmth. It becomes more about decision making.

Compare this to the current winter:  Acquire winter hat or beefalo hat, make thermal stone. That's it. 

[Mike23Ua]

6 minutes ago, sudoku said:

If they were to add seasonal variants based on rng it becomes less of i know how to survive this and more of okay which way do i need to survive which inherently changes your seasonal strategy then preparing the same seasonal clothing and fighting the same seasonal boss while adding variety to the stale formula that is the same every time. For me, personally, it isnt "I know how to play the game so its boring" and more of "its boring because the challenges are the same every time". If there were 2 or 3 seasonal variants for each season sure you could read the wiki and discover what you need to do but you would still be doing different things for that season.  

You do know you can choose Random on how long Seasons last right?

but even then that’s not an issue because there are a few key world changes that lets players know that a particular season is about to start.

Birchnuts start to shrink and lose all their leaf when winter is about to start for example..

[Sweaper]

7 minutes ago, sudoku said:

I gave an example of a seasonal variant for winter in my original post which goes beyond simply adding new items and instead focuses on changing your strategy. For example blizzards which spawn during colder winters. If you want to travel in one you have to sacrifice your headgear for goggles allowing you to see, this means you will get cold faster. Fires go out quicker due to the heavy snowfall so thermal stones wont be able to charge as quickly. To counter this maybe you will choose to leave your backpack at home while your out travelling in the blizzard so you can wear a winter vest or a hibearnation vest and stay out longer. Maybe you dont plan on travelling that far and dont need the extra warmth. It becomes more about decision making.

Compare this to the current winter:  Acquire winter hat or beefalo hat, make thermal stone. That's it. 

Burn more trees for thermal stone, ignore everything else. Goggles on the first winter with default settings?

[sudoku]

30 minutes ago, Sweaper said:

Burn more trees for thermal stone, ignore everything else. Goggles on the first winter in default settings?

I am not a developer this is merely my example of what they could do. They'd have to iron out the details. But off the top of my head goggles would be buffed /made sooner to give them more of a use than sandstorm.  Obviously during a blizzard there is wind and snow so trees on fire would not last as long as they do on default winter, and once you have burnt all those resources during your path through the blizzard, if you chose to do so, they wouldn't be able to be lit on fire again on repeated trips. I also mentioned a boss who spawns in blizzards with a freeze aura negating heat sources in my original post. 

My point is they can surely add new content that changes how you survive, rather than side content that doesn't serve much in the way of affecting your survival tactics.     

[Sweaper]

19 minutes ago, sudoku said:

I am not a developer this is merely my example of what they could do. They'd have to iron out the details. But off the top of my head goggles would be buffed /made sooner to give them more of a use than sandstorm.  Obviously during a blizzard there is wind and snow so trees on fire would not last as long as they do on default winter, and once you have burnt all those resources during your path through the blizzard, if you chose to do so, they wouldn't be able to be lit on fire again on repeated trips. I also mentioned a boss who spawns in blizzards with a freeze aura negating heat sources in my original post. 

My point is they can surely add new content that changes how you survive, rather than side content that doesn't serve much in the way of effecting your survival tactics.     

Even when playing without any winter gear it's pretty hard to run out of trees, which happens to anyone joining a server on mid winter. So unless you start freezing in less than 1 minute and 10 seconds with thermal, 1:10 being the time it takes from overheating to freezing without any gear or beard,  you're not running out of trees anytime soon. Worst case scenario you carry a shovel and some plant and put fire on it and shovel after some seconds. And caves if you miraculously happen to run out of trees.

Just kill the boss before you start to get cold, reminder that winter clothes doesn't give you heat, it just slows the process of freezing.

I'll repeat, no matter what Klei add there will be the best way(s) to do things or another. You'll still be grinding the materials as you always already do to make these things to happen, the game loop won't change that much by adding more stuff. Get stuff, make stuff, don't die, repeat.

[sudoku]

1 minute ago, Sweaper said:

Even when playing without any winter gear it's pretty hard to run out of trees, which happens to anyone joining a server on mid winter. So unless you start freezing in less than 1 minute and 10 seconds with thermal, 1:10 being the time it takes from overheating to freezing without any gear or beard,  you're not running out of trees anytime soon. Worst case scenario you carry a shovel and some plant and put fire on it and shovel after some seconds.

Just kill the boss before you start to get cold, reminder that winter clothes doesn't give you heat, it just slows the process of freezing.

I'll repeat, no matter what Klei add there will be the best way(s) to do things or another. You'll still be grinding the materials as you always already do to make these things to happen, the game loop won't change that much by adding more stuff. Get stuff, make stuff, don't die, repeat.

Okay but i stated wind/snow would put out the fires. Have you played Shipwrecked? The effect would be similar to when fires are active during Hurricane season. They go out almost immediately. 

The freeze aura on the boss would have the effect of an overtuned endothermic fire meaning you will freeze once you reach its aura.

 

Sure you'd be grinding for materials but they would be different materials depending on the variant. Thats the whole point. Im not complaining about the gameplay loop. I'm looking for variety in the materials you need. In my original post, which you dont seem to have read I stated that I think the core gameplay loop is addicting. I dont have any issues with it and its obviously what has made longterm players stick around for so long. If you want to boil down new gameplay additions to their bare bones as just a material to grind or just a boss to fight than you are right no new content will satisfy you.

[Sweaper]

Just now, sudoku said:

Okay but i stated wind/snow would put out the fires. Have you played Shipwrecked? The effect would be similar to when fires are active during Hurricane season. They go out almost immediately. 

No, they don't. The timer just go faster. Still, caves.

 

1 minute ago, sudoku said:

The freeze aura on the boss would have the effect of an overtuned endothermic fire meaning you will freeze once you reach its aura.

Even with that it wouldn't speed the freezing process, that's not how temperature works in DST. You would need to use Klaus mechanics for it.

4 minutes ago, sudoku said:

Sure you'd be grinding for materials but they would be different materials depending on the variant.

In another words, more time grinding. I said that, didn't I? More time grinding means less time doing what you want to do.

7 minutes ago, sudoku said:

I'm looking for variety in the materials you need.

Required material variety means more walking. It's not adding variety in gameplay, it's just more grinding.

[sudoku]

Just now, Sweaper said:

No, they don't. The timer just go faster. Still, caves.

 

Even with that it wouldn't speed the freezing process, that's not how temperature works in DST. You would need to use Klaus mechanics for it.

In another words, more time grinding. I said that, didn't I? More time grinding means less time doing what you want to do.

Required material variety means more walking. It's not adding variety in gameplay, it's just more grinding.

I'm not sure you can call having to gather resources as "grinding", in a survival genre game which calls for you to do exactly that. I'm curious to know what it is exactly that you want to do instead of gathering resources. Carrat racing? Fishing? Standing in base and chatting?

[Sweaper]

Just now, sudoku said:

I'm not sure you can call having to gather resources as "grinding", in a survival genre game which calls for you to do exactly that. I'm curious to know what it is exactly that you want to do instead of gathering resources. Carrat racing? Fishing? Standing in base and chatting?

Everything the game let's me, obviously. Why only limit the game to gather resources?

[sudoku]

Just now, Sweaper said:

Everything the game let's me, obviously. Why only limit the game to gather resources?

Because by your logic everything in the game is grinding for materials. Hunting koalafants is grinding for meat. Fishing is grinding for food, killing optional bosses is grinding for boss mats. Clearing ruins is grinding for gold/gems/gears. 

If having to walk more is an issue then adding a variant for seasons wont likely effect those who stay in base anyways. 

[Sweaper]

Just now, sudoku said:

Because by your logic everything in the game is grinding for materials. Hunting koalafants is grinding for meat. Fishing is grinding for food, killing optional bosses is grinding for boss mats. Clearing ruins is grinding for gold/gems/gears. 

If having to walk more is an issue then adding a variant for seasons wont likely effect those who stay in base anyways. 

Would my logic be wrong? You complained the game played largely the same over 4 years, which I agree. The things Klei added didn't change that (personally for me it changed, especially with the new characters), why you're thinking the things you suggested were different?

[CaptainChaotica]

5 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

But imagine for a second if they Amp’d Insanity up to 11.. added some new mobs that fight differently from Crawling Horror and Terrorbeaks and at full fledge 100% Insane spawns a World devouring corruption that if not dealt with within a certain amount of time will completely Erase your world.

...holy DUCK.  I just pictured that level in "Eversion", where you literally have to _outrun darkness that is EATING THE WORLD behind you_?  Or "The Nothing" from "Neverending Story", take your pick.  Both are frelling TERRIFYING!

(Wait...if you did manage to stop the thing before it ate the whole world, would you still have the _parts_ left that it didn't eat, or would it all restore?  I know this isn't a real thing, my brain just went into logic-and-game-mechanics mode there.)

For some reason it only let me _actually_ quote once, so:  "4 hours ago, Bothead said":

This can change how you can base and what you can do, but it's largely the same. It would be interesting if the seasons changed was sort of random like spring could come earlier or later.

(fanfare) TADAAA!!  And this, folks, is why I use random seasons!  if they ain't random enough for you with the normal game settings you _might_ be able to use a mod that makes 'em even more so!  (Mod sold seperately.)  I just think the world is so much more fun that way.  Let's see, so far I had a normal autumn, shortish winter, shortish spring, _no_ summer, it just went to fall (a valid number of days IS "0"), fall was longish, winter was shortish, spring was almost normal, then a DEAR GOD LET IT END 25-day summer, a normal fall, a winter so short I had to be out of base for Deerclops' arrival on _the first night_, then the next three seasons went like this:  "It's SPRING! why am I overheating? oh thank god, there's an orange tree meaning it's about to be fall wait no I'm freezing."  And we're currently on a long winter.

...keep a winter hat, umbrella, thermal stone and materials for BOTH types of fire on you at all times, is all I can say, and keep birch trees near base. They are your leafy-weathercaster friends. Yep.

Anyway, I'm definitely on the "keep optional stuff optional" side of the fence, 'cos not all even _veterans_ are good at combat, or LIKE it, and having your base destroyed is _so depressing_, especially if you've been playing alone and it took you more work than usual.  (I also don't want it destroyed at the moment because my Winter's Feast tree is still up, and if it gets smashed I ain't getting another one until December.)  

But I'm also not at all against the _rewards_ for said optional content being BETTER.  You do that stuff, you're willing to go out of your way?  Then you deserve somethin'!  As long as the rewards don't become NECESSARY.  I don't care if they become The Optimal Thing to do in "the meta"; I've personally never cared about optimal in ANY MMORPG, myself.  But making the rewards for the optional bosses worth it?  Why not?

...Notorious

[sudoku]

35 minutes ago, Sweaper said:

Would my logic be wrong? You complained the game played largely the same over 4 years, which I agree. The things Klei added didn't change that (personally for me it changed, especially with the new characters), why you're thinking the things you suggested were different?

seasonal variants are just an example, but i will use the current content added to try and explain.

If the Lunar island had a boss on it that once past a certain day spawns and begins a global sanity drain (similar to when a player becomes a ghost). Every additional day that sanity drain increases. This now gives you an incentive to go to the Lunar island as it affects your survival. 

 

If the Toadstool made mushrooms on the surface world grow bigger and become toxic sprouting poisonous spores. Digging the mushrooms up now leaves behind mushroom roots which can still sprout these toxic mushrooms.

 

If the Beequeen slowly mind controlled bumblebees into killer bees who are ultra aggressive near their hives when a player approaches. 

Basically REASONS that you need to deal with these things. And if that requires drops/health scaling adjustments to previous bosses than so be it. 

But as Ogre said, maybe a hardcore mode would be the best option so that players who dont want more survival challenge can just do the stuff they always do.     

[GenomeSquirrel]

4 hours ago, sudoku said:

 

Here is a small example of what I mean combining everything I have discussed:

There are 4 days left in autumn, you build a thermal measurer to track the coming winter. It reads this winter is going to be colder than usual.  You then build a rainometer, unlucky for you it also reads that this winter will have more precipitation than last years so you can expect heavy snowfall with the occasional blizzard. The blizzards will make travelling rather difficult without goggles and will also make you forgo the warmth from headgear so you'll need to pay attention to the rainometer as to when exactly a blizzard will strike. While the snow is calm, you surely will be busy prepping for the Yetski, a yeti-like creature who is quick on its feet as it glides through the winter snow, since he lurks in blizzards.  The Yetski is a formidable winter opponent with a freeze aura that negates any source of warmth requiring a different strategy than your typical Deerclops encounter. Luckily there is still time to kill some batilisks for their wings to allow you to craft a Bat Bat. Its lifesteal is a must if you want to counter the yetski's freezerburn. 

There is new meaningful content that you have to deal with in the form of a new gameplay content, RNG which determines how you encounter this content, and a shift towards using other items that currently go ignored and would hopefully be buffed a bit.  This is the type of stuff I would like to see get added to DST to shake it up and give it its own identity while also improving replayability.

The problem with this example is that it is even more the sameness than RoT content, it's like after being sick of vanilla ice cream, someone offered you strawberry, and you turned it down asking for french vanilla. Stationary boxes are the last place you should look if you want to add excitement, variety, or change; the exception being if they generate mobs, hazards, or maybe act as a vending or slot machine. The problem with blizzards is that it's already been solved; like umbrellas in spring, winter hats in winter, e.c.t. just hoard resources before it gets in your way, replenish when it's gone. You will succeed in getting payers spending a few minutes of a season differently, but you're not opening new doors, it's a non interactive threat that will feel stale in a few cycles.

As for your boss, frankly the cure, murdering you for being unlucky enough to not get a rare red or purple gem, is worse than the disease, bats being unpopular. 

Personally I hate boats enough that I won't go on them unless they're functionally a bridge, (the deal breaker was Wurt's kelp, and I'm never touching the character again without her or the boats getting an overhaul). While boats have the problem of being painfully slow, having high initial investment, and paying poor dividends; even I'll admit it's still a fresh experience that could be redeemed with a some changes (that I sadly think the developers don't want to implement  )

[minespatch]

3 minutes ago, sudoku said:

This now gives you an incentive to go to the Lunar island as it affects your survival. 

Spider crystal queen?

[Sweaper]

6 minutes ago, sudoku said:

seasonal variants are just an example, but i will use the current content added to try and explain.

If the Lunar island had a boss on it that once past a certain day spawns and begins a global sanity drain (similar to when a player becomes a ghost). Every additional day that sanity drain increases. This now gives you an incentive to go to the Lunar island as it affects your survival. 

 

If the Toadstool made mushrooms on the surface world grow bigger and become toxic sprouting poisonous spores. Digging the mushrooms up now leaves behind mushroom roots which can still sprout these toxic mushrooms.

 

If the Beequeen slowly mind controlled bumblebees into killer bees who are ultra aggressive near their hives when a player approaches. 

Basically REASONS that you need to deal with these things. And if that requires drops/health scaling adjustments to previous bosses that so be it. 

But as Oggre said, maybe a hardcore mode would be the best option so that players who dont want more survival challenge can just do the stuff they always do.     

If adding an annoyance to make you do something to get rid of that annoyance is good for you, okay. Just remember in the long term it will get stale, a novelty at first but you'll still be playing largely the same way as 4 years before.

But if you find those good then we will have to agree to disagree.

[sudoku]

Just now, Sweaper said:

If adding an annoyance to make you do something to get rid of that annoyance is good for you, okay. Just remember in the long term it will get stale, a novelty at first but you'll still be playing largely the same way as 4 years before.

But if you find those good then we will have to agree to disagree.

if you equate having a challenge that you need to overcome to being annoying then yes we will agree to disagree.  Like i said i am no game developer but players overcoming obstacles is a core pillar in all games especially ones like Dont Starve which is focused on survival.  But i am aware of the division the multiplayer version of the game has created where there are those who take more to the simulation aspect and just casually enjoy chatting and playing house.  

[Sweaper]

1 minute ago, sudoku said:

if you equate having a challenge that you need to overcome to being annoying then yes we will agree to disagree.  Like i said i am no game developer but players overcoming obstacles is a core pillar in all games especially ones like Dont Starve which is focused on survival.  But i am aware of the division the multiplayer version of the game has created where there are those who take more to the simulation aspect and just casually enjoy chatting and playing house.  

There is nothing stopping you from killing B Queen, Toad and any other boss that requires some obnoxious setup to spawn (thanks Klei for making these intuitive to do blind, NOT), the challenge is already always sitting waiting for anyone interested in it. Adding an excuse to make a player deal with a boss is pretty much creating a problem where there is none. Want to fight Bee Queen? Smack her hive.

[OMERICA]

No matter how much or how interesting content they will add, there will be always people who complain. There is no right way. This is a form of art after all. And art is not objective, some will like, some won’t. Also some will eventually get bored, and that’s ok too. There is no need to change the core of the game for “veteran” players. They are simply bored and need to play another game instead of trying to change the game they have been playing for a long time. 

[Misa22]

28 minutes ago, minespatch said:

Spider crystal queen?

Carrat crystal queen. 

[Well-met]

1 minute ago, OMERICA said:

No matter how much or how interesting content they will add, there will be always people who complain. There are no right way. This is a form of art after all. And art is not universal, some will like some won’t. Also some will eventually get bored, and that’s ok too. There is no need to change the core of the game for “veteran” players. They are simply bored and need to play another game instead of trying to change the game they have been playing for a long time. 

This^.

games don't "re-invent" themselves each year or so. You and the game alike are getting older, that's all.