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Oozinator    2,568
18 hours ago, augustinoi said:

this is my idea, ai will burn the ice enought to have cold water.

Captura de Tela (270).png

That is one of the worst sleet wheat farms i have ever seen!
wedf445.jpg.f66a45b332668aa8f325e88591b47de0.jpg

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Soulwind    272

It'll work for awhile, but you'll eventually warm up the ice biome and have it shut down.  For long term you are basically required to use active cooling.

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DonDegow    77

To expand on what Oozinator said, it won't be useful to introduce heat in your farm in order to melt the water to use that as a coolant; you're trying to heat up your coolant, with a space heater moreover which is really not a good use of your electricity (which you had problem with in another post), it will never be able to melt enough water to constantly feed 24 sleet wheats.

From what I can tell, the biome is at about -30°C which is perfect for sleet wheat, why would you try to change its temperature?

A better idea would be to bring water from a supply you have ready and using insulated pipes and maybe a valve to avoid heating the biome/having ice forming in your pipes.

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Gavin786    10
24 minutes ago, augustinoi said:

mean

 

It was mean.

There are some pretty horrible forums out there and we should all be happy this is such a great forum with helpful, nice people.  It is important to keep that in mind.  This is a really positive place.  Anyone who has ever had the misfortune to have been on the <retracted name famously toxic space sim forum> for any length of time will appreciate and do everything they can to keep this lovely forum positive and helpful.

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psusi    188

Also you shouldn't try growing sleet wheat if you are still struggling with other areas of the game.  It is the most challenging crop to grow.  It is much easier and cheaper to grow mushrooms, and eventually when you find a NG vent to run the gas grill, some lettuce to fry into mushroom wraps.

 

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Neotuck    2,214

There are 3 things I like to establish before building a sleet wheat farm.

1.  A large stock of wheezie wort seeds

2.  Dirt production (pip ranching is ideal)

3.  Fertilizer production

 

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Gurgel    1,395
49 minutes ago, psusi said:

Also you shouldn't try growing sleet wheat if you are still struggling with other areas of the game.  It is the most challenging crop to grow.  It is much easier and cheaper to grow mushrooms, and eventually when you find a NG vent to run the gas grill, some lettuce to fry into mushroom wraps.

What, more of a problem than nosh sprouts?

Anyways, the basic idea of this is not that bad, it just is time-limited as the ice-biome will slowly melt away. It is certainly usable to get some experience with the crop.

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hackcasual    64
5 hours ago, DonDegow said:

To expand on what Oozinator said, it won't be useful to introduce heat in your farm in order to melt the water to use that as a coolant; you're trying to heat up your coolant, with a space heater moreover which is really not a good use of your electricity (which you had problem with in another post), it will never be able to melt enough water to constantly feed 24 sleet wheats.

From what I can tell, the biome is at about -30°C which is perfect for sleet wheat, why would you try to change its temperature?

A better idea would be to bring water from a supply you have ready and using insulated pipes and maybe a valve to avoid heating the biome/having ice forming in your pipes.

Insulated pipes don't really help, since the water is delivered to the farm tiles, where it exchanges its heat with the environment. You can get by with 10C water for awhile, but at some point you'll need some sustainable way to produce 1-5C water

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Neotuck    2,214
15 minutes ago, hackcasual said:

Insulated pipes don't really help, since the water is delivered to the farm tiles, where it exchanges its heat with the environment. You can get by with 10C water for awhile, but at some point you'll need some sustainable way to produce 1-5C water

I have used 30C water for my sleet wheat farms.  As long as you have a good cooling system to keep the plants cool the water shouldn't heat up much.  

I haven't done the math but one wheezwort per 2 sleet wheats works just fine

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hackcasual    64
8 minutes ago, Neotuck said:

I have used 30C water for my sleet wheat farms.  As long as you have a good cooling system to keep the plants cool the water shouldn't heat up much.  

I haven't done the math but one wheezwort per 2 sleet wheats works just fine

Doing the math, knocking 66g/s (40kg/c) of water down 25C takes 7kDTU/s, and a wheezewort provides 12k, so that'll work. The risk there if your wheezeworts aren't temperature controlled is overcooling, but you've also got your dirt temperature to lower as well.

 

Edit: That's assuming your wheezeworts are in hydrogen, if you're cooling oxygen, it's only going to provide 5k, so it may eventually warm up

Edited by hackcasual

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Neotuck    2,214
Just now, hackcasual said:

The risk there if your wheezeworts aren't temperature controlled is overcooling

I keep the wheezworts in a separate room devided by mech doors automated by a thermal sensor.

6 minutes ago, hackcasual said:

That's assuming your wheezeworts are in hydrogen, if you're cooling oxygen, it's only going to provide 5k, so it may eventually warm up

I always use hydrogen, I even use conveyers with sweepers to keep them fertilized so I can seal the room

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hackcasual    64
2 hours ago, Gurgel said:

What, more of a problem than nosh sprouts?

Anyways, the basic idea of this is not that bad, it just is time-limited as the ice-biome will slowly melt away. It is certainly usable to get some experience with the crop.

A point in favor of nosh sprouts over sleet wheat is you can easily hit their growth temperature range with a direct aquatuner loop setup, since ethanol's freezing point is so low. For using an aquatuner to direct cool water , you need to specially handle any packets between 5 and 14C, since they're too warm to feed to SW and too cold to aqua tune.

12 minutes ago, Neotuck said:

I keep the wheezworts in a separate room devided by mech doors automated by a thermal sensor.

I always use hydrogen, I even use conveyers with sweepers to keep them fertilized so I can seal the room

A great approach, and I worry I'm being a bit pedantic, but I'd argue that's just another way to cool the input water. For example, if you started sending in 60C water, you'd need to double your wheezeworts.

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Neotuck    2,214
11 minutes ago, hackcasual said:

A great approach, and I worry I'm being a bit pedantic, but I'd argue that's just another way to cool the input water. For example, if you started sending in 60C water, you'd need to double your wheezeworts.

It really depends on what I have to work with and if I can spare power for aqua tunners.

In my last game I was lucky to have 2 PW geysers (30C)  I just sieved and stored the surplus before sending it to my farm.

Had plenty of dirt from the sieves and I ranched some dreckos with balm lilies for phosphorite. 

By end game I had all my dupes eating pepper bread

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Gurgel    1,395
12 minutes ago, hackcasual said:

A point in favor of nosh sprouts over sleet wheat is you can easily hit their growth temperature range with a direct aquatuner loop setup, since ethanol's freezing point is so low. For using an aquatuner to direct cool water , you need to specially handle any packets between 5 and 14C, since they're too warm to feed to SW and too cold to aqua tune.

Ah, right. I solved this one a long time ago, but I can see how less experienced players may find this difficult. The way to do this is to mix cooling liquid with suitable low freezing point in a tank. That way the temperature changes slowly. You need to loop some of the liquid in the tank to itself to measure current inside temperature, but that is about all that is to it. Then you use that cooling loop via a counter-flow heat exchanger to cool the actual water you feed to the sleet wheat. 

But I admit I have used wild sleet what for ages now. A lot easier to handle and setting it up is not that much effort.

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hackcasual    64
Just now, Gurgel said:

Ah, right. I solved this one a long time ago, but I can see how less experienced players may find this difficult. The way to do this is to mix cooling liquid with suitable low freezing point in a tank. That way the temperature changes slowly. You need to loop some of the liquid in the tank to itself to measure current inside temperature, but that is about all that is to it. Then you use that cooling loop via a counter-flow heat exchanger to cool the actual water you feed to the sleet wheat. 

But I admit I have used wild sleet what for ages now. A lot easier to handle and setting it up is not that much effort.

I'm the same, early game wild sleet is pretty OP. My go to when I don't do that though is a closed loop of pWater running through an AT cooling a small supply cistern. That makes it easy to switch over to super coolant when space materials become available. But again, more complex than just sticking a fluid into an AT.

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Neotuck    2,214

Correct me if I'm wrong but water stored inside a hydroponic tile won't freeze.  So as long as you supply the water in insulated pipes made of ceramic, you don't have to worry about over cooling

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hackcasual    64
Just now, Neotuck said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but water stored inside a hydroponic tile won't freeze.  So as long as you supply the water in insulated pipes made of ceramic, you don't have to worry about over cooling

I think if it's cooled down while it's in there it's fine, but I do think there can be weird situations where it transitions from the insulated pipes to the tile. But in any case, if you're overcooling, you'll eventually drop below -55C and the sleet wheat will stop growing.

Thinking about it, it's actually really weird that a plant can live in temperatures 55 degrees lower than the fluid it lives on freezes at.

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Neotuck    2,214
1 minute ago, hackcasual said:

I think if it's cooled down while it's in there it's fine, but I do think there can be weird situations where it transitions from the insulated pipes to the tile. But in any case, if you're overcooling, you'll eventually drop below -55C and the sleet wheat will stop growing.

Thinking about it, it's actually really weird that a plant can live in temperatures 55 degrees lower than the fluid it lives on freezes at.

ONI physics is weird.  Usually I set my thermal sensors to -5C so I'm no where near the -55C limit

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psusi    188
1 hour ago, hackcasual said:

Doing the math, knocking 66g/s (40kg/c) of water down 25C takes 7kDTU/s, and a wheezewort provides 12k, so that'll work. The risk there if your wheezeworts aren't temperature controlled is overcooling, but you've also got your dirt temperature to lower as well.

You aren't cooling 66g/s by 25 C.  If you aren't using one valve per farm tile to limit the in flow to only what the plant takes, you have 5 kg of 30 C water sitting there exchanging heat with the tile.  It constantly has 66g/s being deleted and replaced with fresh 30 C water, so it will reach equalibrium somewhere below that, but not all the way down to less than 5 C.

2 hours ago, hackcasual said:

Insulated pipes don't really help, since the water is delivered to the farm tiles, where it exchanges its heat with the environment.

The insulated pipes are to keep the water from freezing in them and damaging them.

 

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KittenIsAGeek    1,441
On 1/31/2020 at 2:26 PM, Neotuck said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but water stored inside a hydroponic tile won't freeze.  So as long as you supply the water in insulated pipes made of ceramic, you don't have to worry about over cooling

I've had it freeze.  There is thermal transfer between the environment and the contents of the hydroponic tile based on the insulated properties of the material used for the tile.  In the case where I had freezing, my hydroponics tiles were at -15c and the water coming in was only at 2c.  The insulated pipes near the end of the wheezewart line broke.  I tested the same flow rate scenario with pipes and no hydroponics tiles and the pipes didn't break because the temperature of the water in the pipe never got cold enough.  I think its a similar issue to when you boil water (or petrol) in a metal refinery.  The pipe at the refinery's output breaks.  The water turns to ice as its entering the hydroponics tile and causes the pipe to break.

 

I should add: This was a large thermal difference.  With the room even 5c warmer the problem didn't occur.

Edited by KittenIsAGeek

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psusi    188
9 hours ago, KittenIsAGeek said:

The insulated pipes near the end of the wheezewart line broke

Then it froze in the insulated pipe, not the hydroponic tile.

9 hours ago, KittenIsAGeek said:

I think its a similar issue to when you boil water (or petrol) in a metal refinery.  The pipe at the refinery's output breaks.  The water turns to ice as its entering the hydroponics tile and causes the pipe to break.

No; with those you are heating it to boiling inside the machine, which the machine does not care about.  As soon as it leaves the machine and enters the pipe, that's where it flashes to gas and breaks the pipe.  If you use a valve to limit the flow to 1000 g/s then you can heat water to above 100 C in the pipe without it breaking and feed it into machines, like the electrolyzer, and the machine doesn't care that it's over 100 C

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