augustinoi

ok, Help me witch my electrical problem

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augustinoi    27

I have 3 Coal generators, 2 Natural gas generator, and a Hydrogen generator (not using as usual.) 

usually, natural gas over fast, because wiki says I need 9 to do a good NG to energy, and hydrogen over fast too. 

5e308095797c9_CapturadeTela(256).thumb.png.3b742c479053834a3065a38a0c84f0d4.png

 

 

Edited by augustinoi

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Fyrel    2

You seem to be out of fuel.

Do you have automation to turn off the generators when the batteries are full?

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augustinoi    27
51 minutes ago, Fyrel said:

You seem to be out of fuel.

Do you have automation to turn off the generators when the batteries are full?

yes, but gas sources over fast and 3 coal generators are not enough, i can build more but coal sources are far and they take time to get it.

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Yoma_Nosme    475

If you're almost out of coal and don't have hatches to produce more dig down to oil and setup a petrol generator.

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Janellope    4
7 hours ago, augustinoi said:

yes, but gas sources over fast and 3 coal generators are not enough, i can build more but coal sources are far and they take time to get it.

What are you running that all those generators can't power? What are your smart batteries set to? If you are running on primarily coal power you should for sure have a small hatch ranch. Look into power waste mitigation as well... there is a lot of things you can disable via automation when not in use to prevent wasting power.

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DonDegow    77

Fertilizer synthesizer isn't power positive with nat gas generators, you recover about 2/3 of the power input at best (accounting for gas pump and gas filter) so if you're constantly using them for power, you're out of luck.

I'd recommend tapping into a nat. gas or hydrogen vent to generate most of your electricity, if you didn't find any, go for petroleum gen as said above.

Coal gens are great for transitioning to mid-game but it requires a good amount of generators and coal if it's your only power source, especially if you're running aquatuners.

Quick tip to almost instantly reduce your power consumption : 

-use an atmo sensor in addition to your gas sensor for the nat gas pump, use it only when nat gas AND pressure above ~750(strict minimum is 500, but with margin 750 and 1000 are great values to use), this will use way less often your gas filter and your pump; assuming your fert synths work constantly, you'll use about 80kW less every cycle, would be double the waste if you had only one fertilizer synth.

After that you can increase this power efficiency by using a mechanical gas filter instead of the building to gain about 3kW per cycle but that won't make such a big difference in the short term : 

Spoiler

Note that this version use only one bridge, you should use 2 gas bridges as 1kg packets won't be able to be fully filtered otherwise, brothgar made a great video on this subject.

-In the same idea, use a hydro sensor for your liquid pump under the gas generators, you'll get about 14kW/cycle back that way (once again, assuming your fert synth are working constantly)

 

Edit : reports of your electric consumption from precedent cycles can help a lot for us to help you.

Edited by DonDegow
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augustinoi    27
17 hours ago, Yoma_Nosme said:

If you're almost out of coal and don't have hatches to produce more dig down to oil and setup a petrol generator.

yes, but I think it is a terrible mistake if you not are well prepared. as dig slime.

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psusi    188

I would also say don't use the algae distiller.  Save the slime for growing mushrooms or if you really have too much of it, feed it to sage hatches to turn it into coal.

 

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augustinoi    27
2 hours ago, DonDegow said:

@augustinoi Did you try my solution?

I m work on it but these maps have few restrictions of spawns. i mean. on this map, I'm playing it gives me much more water than normal. when i started i received like five lakes. three big lakes of polluted water and 2 steam vents. (i still think developer lets this water vents spawn too near of the middle.

so it`s a rare case of i can use hydrogen for energy.

I either find an NG geyser but I don`t trust it any geyser because they are inconstant. 

5e31bcf322d0c_CapturadeTela(264).thumb.png.39be745da74cc7b6a9e240c7a56e6e3b.png

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DonDegow    77

Geysers turn off and on so yeah it's not super reliable at first but once you get a good gas storage capacity and more than 1 geyser, you almost never need a back-up source.

Anyway, my advice on automation is what will help you the most I think, your power consumption and production will go way way lower and you should be good for some time.

Edited by DonDegow

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bobucles    368

Geysers are free resources, don't go out of your way to waste free resources. It's better to tap a natgas geyser have it work badly, than to be too timid to harvest it at all.

Lowering waste is just as useful as producing more power. Gas and liquid pumps are some of the most expensive tools to run, followed closely by

Spoiler

refrigerators.

DonDegow is right about using atmo sensors to keep pumps working at high efficiency. Gas pumps crank out up to 500g per tap. They don't care if there's only 0.2g of air in a room, they'll pump out that last 0.2g and you'll still pay full price for it.

Automation is also important for saving fuel. The default stance of generators is to burn endlessly at all times, regardless of your energy storage. Connect them to smart batteries so they will shut down at full power.

Try to look for shortcuts in designs to get more goodies for less energy cost. For example, do you really need to pump all the oxygen out of your electrolyzers? There's always the option to crack open the area underneath them and let the gas flow freely. It's not as efficient on the electrolyzer, but it does remove a pump cost. There are very few true necessities for keeping a base alive, and a lot of ways to splurge on convenience.

Most devices will only consume power when they are active. You can increase efficiency on some things such as having a high tinker dupe use the metal refinery, but going heavy into that is splitting hairs. Simply turning off is efficient enough.

Edited by bobucles

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Janellope    4
17 hours ago, DonDegow said:

Fertilizer synthesizer isn't power positive with nat gas generators, you recover about 2/3 of the power input at best (accounting for gas pump and gas filter)

No one should be paying power for a filter.

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Gavin786    10

So many things in this game take up useless power consumption that can be avoided.

Here is a design for any liquid reservoir that mostly avoids need for pumping as long as there is sufficient in the buffer.  As many cases you have both a input and output for a given liquid type(both producer and consumer), so you can use this to avoid a big pond with a pump in it.

20200130103834_1.thumb.jpg.a46c8a7ab317705d7fc2496d13f03baa.jpg

And make use of the mechanical filters it is one of the best tricks in the game.

Learn the secrets of pipes and order of flow, you can use it to do lots of tricks.

Edited by Gavin786

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Oozinator    2,568
On 28.1.2020 at 7:42 PM, augustinoi said:

I have 3 Coal generators, 2 Natural gas generator, and a Hydrogen generator

No manual wheels?
Normally i used many of them, on every circuit.
When you open a NG Geyser for example, install pump while dormant - vacuum - then no more filter is needed.
Keep coal as backup, you need it for steel later and ceramic.

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augustinoi    27
7 hours ago, Gavin786 said:

Muitas coisas neste jogo ocupam um consumo inútil de energia que pode ser evitado.

Aqui está um projeto para qualquer reservatório de líquido que evite a necessidade de bombeamento, desde que haja suficiente no buffer. Em muitos casos, você tem uma entrada e uma saída para um determinado tipo de líquido (produtor e consumidor); portanto, você pode usá-lo para evitar um grande lago com uma bomba.

20200130103834_1.thumb.jpg.a46c8a7ab317705d7fc2496d13f03baa.jpg

E faça uso dos filtros mecânicos, é um dos melhores truques do jogo.

Aprenda os segredos dos tubos e a ordem do fluxo, você pode usá-lo para fazer muitos truques.

im using that

image.thumb.png.bf700fca45c48fb61c98fb261bdbd66e.png

i know is not o look like but i have more that 700 h of noobing on this game .

image.thumb.png.0ead9409987896fc4b2e2507ce1a6007.png

 

 

 

 
 
 
 
7 hours ago, Oozinator said:

Não há rodas manuais?
Normalmente eu usei muitos deles, em todos os circuitos.
Quando você abre um NG Geyser, por exemplo, instale a bomba enquanto estiver inativa - a vácuo - e não será necessário mais filtro.
Mantenha o carvão como reserva, você precisará para o aço mais tarde e para a cerâmica.

hmm, i do not think of that. now I'm feeling apprehensive. anyway, i will try to retire my coal generator soon. if i were developers i would a option to transform wheels in a recreation thing. i ever thinked thei enjoy it.  

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Zarquan    777
On 1/29/2020 at 4:53 AM, DonDegow said:

-use an atmo sensor in addition to your gas sensor for the nat gas pump, use it only when nat gas AND pressure above ~750(strict minimum is 500, but with margin 750 and 1000 are great values to use), this will use way less often your gas filter and your pump; assuming your fert synths work constantly, you'll use about 80kW less every cycle, would be double the waste if you had only one fertilizer synth.

Another benefit of setting the atmo sensor high is that, in case of emergency, you can change the atmo sensor to lower for a burst of power.  I do this so that if my other power sources go offline, then I can get the oxygen flowing while I get another power source up and running. 

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KittenIsAGeek    1,434
On 1/28/2020 at 11:42 AM, augustinoi said:

I have 3 Coal generators, 2 Natural gas generator, and a Hydrogen generator (not using as usual.) 

usually, natural gas over fast, because wiki says I need 9 to do a good NG to energy, and hydrogen over fast too. 

5e308095797c9_CapturadeTela(256).thumb.png.3b742c479053834a3065a38a0c84f0d4.png

 

 

I've been looking at this screenshot closely for a while.  Since we can only see the electric grid, I can't tell if there's any automation wires controlling your generators.  Since your nat gas generators are a long ways from the batteries, I'm doubting they're connected to automation.   I do see 4 smart batteries somewhere near the coal and hydrogen generator, so I'll assume they're connected to automation.  They're all empty, which suggests that you're drawing more power than you're producing -- which was likely the reason for your post.

OK, so, working with those assumptions... You have 10 dupes at cycle 89.  If you're producing oxygen with an electrolyzer, you can run one hydrogen generator continually and power another 24% of the time.  If you use a Power Control Station to tune up the hydrogen generators, you can produce oxygen for 10 dupes AND get the equivalent of almost 800 watts of extra power -- the equivalent of an un-tuned hydrogen generator. Here's a link to my post on a thread to show what I mean.  The OP of this post also has a very efficient setup that produces even MORE power, so the thread is worth a read:

 

OK.  Next up: With 10 dupes, you should have at least a couple hamster wheels.  They'll reduce your need for fuel considerably.  Here's some screenshots from my 507 cycle base with 12 dupes.  This setup allows dupe power to act as a 1.6kw generator.

Spoiler

image.thumb.png.89f9c4712df7d1575489d18c98205151.png

image.thumb.png.bc744b2134a554c847b58fff112779d8.png

image.thumb.png.e0f5522ff92cbc54065ae4a196a71e47.png

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image.thumb.png.fd41d0fcbac8d880e3eb602bb4a480b5.png

Ignore the automation line going out the top and heading to the left.  It isn't doing anything anymore.

OK, so.. the wheels charge up the large battery.  The smart battery is on the main grid, not the hamster wheel grid, which means I can use the logic to control its priority compared to my other generators.  Right now I have a surplus of hydrogen, so the smart battery is set to 100/40, putting it at a lower priority than the hydrogen generators.  When the smart battery gets low enough, it turns on the two small transformers and dumps 2kw of power onto the grid from the large battery.  When the large battery gets down to  50% charge, dupes come along and run on the wheels to charge it up.  So for short bursts it puts out 2kw but for longer hauls it tops out at 1600 watts.  Still, that's two un-tuned nat gas generators worth of power right there.

 

Finally.. if you're using forum posts for nat gas power using fertilizer synthesizers -- that's old information.  Quite old.  The fertilizer synthesizers are for producing fertilizer.  Natural gas IS a byproduct, but it isn't the primary product.  A single fertilizer synthesizer produces 10g/s of nat gas while using a LOT of other materials.

image.png.39895046ea6c13c1978565317d8e0fd6.png

In fact, you pretty much only want to use a fertilizer synthesizer if you need fertilizer.  Otherwise you're wasting (polluted) water, dirt, and phosphorite that can be used more efficiently in other ways.  A much more economical method is to keep digging down to the oil biome.  Build an oil refinery, a nat gas generator, and a couple petroleum generators.

image.png.db81fbffdabc0eaddbaeec7122f6ae31.png

One refinery can continually run two petroleum generators and produces enough natural gas to run a nat gas generator 25% of the time.  That's 4576 watts of continual power, provided you have the oil.  And that's before you tune up the generators.

 

So: TL;DR: To solve your energy crisis:

  1. Build some hamster wheels.
  2. Make sure all generators that use fuel have a dedicated smart battery to control fuel use.
  3. Switch from oxydizers to electrolyzers for your oxygen so you can exploit that sweet sweet hydrogen.
  4. Dig down to oil and use a refinery to produce petroleum.
  5. DO NOT use fertilizer synthesizers to produce natural gas.  DO use them for producing fertilizer.  You can certainly make use of the nat gas they produce, but they're terrible at it.

 

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augustinoi    27

Firs as you requested my automation on this map.

image.thumb.png.78ab2be9b777573c7e79963be45a4db2.png

Now answering your list.

1. liked the idea to do a gym until i have another good source of energy but on this cycle, i do not have any space on that map, anyway, i will do petroleum.

2.love when community tells me that.

3.i will, on this map there is a lot of water and a few algae to use. but i think that use electrolyzers are a situational strategy. have once that i use and it transforms my colony in a sauna. everything over 40 c in a biome of 27c

4 doing, dig down really take time.

5. i don't know what to say. i know only 3 ways to get if. fertilizer, (i think is for an early game thing.) vents (basically luck)  and oil refiner. 

 

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psusi    188
21 minutes ago, augustinoi said:

3.i will, on this map there is a lot of water and a few algae to use. but i think that use electrolyzers are a situational strategy. have once that i use and it transforms my colony in a sauna. everything over 40 c in a biome of 27c

Electrolyzers are the only way to provide oxygen long term.  Using algae is an early game bridge to get you to the point where you can switch to electrolyzers.  You do need cooling to deal with the heat obviously.  A simple method is just to pump the oxygen through radiant pipes in water.  Eventually it will heat the water but it will work for a good while and you can use ice makers and dump the ice back into the water to help keep it cool, but eventually you need to use an aqua tuner to cool the oxygen and a steam turbine to delete the heat.

See this for a more advanced electrolyzer setup:

 

21 minutes ago, augustinoi said:

i don't know what to say. i know only 3 ways to get if. fertilizer, (i think is for an early game thing.) vents (basically luck)  and oil refiner. 

Basically if you don't have a NG vent then you don't use a NG gen.  Unless I suppose, you set up a sour gas boiler.  Every map should have one somewhere.  On my current map I thought I didn't for the longest time but finally did find one in a far corner of the map, which I'm now using just to run the gas grill.  Pretty much all of my power is coming from hydrogen generators, a petroleum generator burning ethanol, and steam turbines.

 

By the way, why do you have so many smart batteries?  They each produce heat and waste power, so the less the better.  And there is no reason to connect the automation wire to more than one.

Edited by psusi

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KittenIsAGeek    1,434
On 1/31/2020 at 7:13 AM, augustinoi said:

Firs as you requested my automation on this map.

image.thumb.png.78ab2be9b777573c7e79963be45a4db2.png

Now answering your list.

1. liked the idea to do a gym until i have another good source of energy but on this cycle, i do not have any space on that map, anyway, i will do petroleum.

2.love when community tells me that.

3.i will, on this map there is a lot of water and a few algae to use. but i think that use electrolyzers are a situational strategy. have once that i use and it transforms my colony in a sauna. everything over 40 c in a biome of 27c

4 doing, dig down really take time.

5. i don't know what to say. i know only 3 ways to get if. fertilizer, (i think is for an early game thing.) vents (basically luck)  and oil refiner. 

 

OK, your automation triggers ALL your generators at once when your batteries are low.  This is not a good strategy.  I would recommend either putting each generator with its own smart battery or at least each type of generator on its own smart battery.  This lets you control when you use particular fuels.

Now to address your responses:

  1. Quote: "I do not have any space on that map."  The one you have screen shots of? There's no space for manual generators?  You're saying that on cycle 191 with 12 dupes you have utilized the entire asteroid and there's no way you can make room for hamster wheels?  Even in the screenshot I can see there's plenty of room to stick wheels.  For example, there's a lot of empty space right above your coal generators.
  2. Well, we keep saying "put each type of generator on its own smart battery" because we've learned form experience how to keep from running out of fuel.  You have a fuel problem.  Maybe our advice is useful.  If not, feel free to continue ignoring it, but don't complain when you're running out of fuel on all your generators.
  3. I disagree with your assessment that electrolyzers are situational.  "Oxygen Diffusers" are the worst for producing oxygen.  Their only advantage is that they can be built right away at the start of your base before you've gotten anything else arranged.  But that's a different argument.  The reason we suggested in this thread to use electrolyzers is because you've got a fuel problem.  We suggested electrolyzers because when set up correctly, you can produce oxygen AND provide power for your base.  Yes, you will have to manage the heat they produce -- nothing is perfect.
  4. Yep.
  5. Yes, Fertilizer Synthesizers produce natural gas -- as a byproduct.  Yes, you CAN use it, but you're going to come up against the problem that you're posting about -- there isn't enough NG produced to provide power.  Here's the math: A single Fertilizer Synthesizer running continually produces 10g/s of natural gas and requires 120 watts of power.  You need 9 fertilizer synthesizers to produce enough NG to run one generator.  9 x 120 = 1080 watts of power just to run the synthesizers.  A natural gas generator produces 800 watts of power.  You'll need to run the NG generator continually AND produce another 280 watts of power, just to produce the NG to run the generator continually. 

If you want natural gas for running generators, you have a couple of options:  You can find a natural gas vent, which usually produces enough NG for about 1 generator.  You can dig down to the oil biome and refine oil into petrolem, providing fuel for both a NG generator and a petrol generator.  You can set up a sour gas boiler and condense the SG into NG.  The last is the most economical, but its a pain to get set up.  Any other method, such as dupe farts or fertilizer synthsizers, will not produce enough NG to be useful.

 

To repeat so that its very clear: Fertilizer Synthesizers will not produce enough NG to be useful.  It is not an early-game method of getting NG.   It is not a viable method for producing NG.  It will cost more power than you get back.

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