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Shosuko    944
3 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

This is a really terrible example though... because you literally just proved that at least 6 out 10 spots can be exploited with Boat Kit Placement, If that isn’t a clear indication that most rivers should be smaller than Boat Kit placement idk What is.

I think the main thing is that when Klei added the Boats, they didn’t think about players using them as wooden planks to jump between biomes, So they didn’t bother decreasing the gap size between biome Rivers.

You say "exploited" and all I hear is "wah walls are exploits against dfly! wah lureplants are exploits against klaus!"

You know Klei probably thought about how boats could be used as bridges - and still released boats.  Just like they know how their pathing works, and lavae are still stopped by a wall, and Klaus is still stopped by a lure plant.  These things are not entirely accidental.  If Klei wanted they could "fix" any of these and yet... they don't.  As far as I'm concerned exploitation of the world, and game mechanics are a core source of enjoyment in DST.

Sure, you don't like how it looks - I get that - and it sucks that you play on xbox where you cannot access mods, because the normal answer to "I want something of a different aesthetic in this game which doesn't fit the theme of the game, and is redundant with current options" is to make a mod for it...  You want a water gardens type bridge, yet the game's aesthetic is Nightmare Before Christmas type goth.  What you get is an ugly, yet serviceable cookie boat / barge.

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Mike23Ua    3,062

The problem is that other players (Mainly grieving players) which is A massive and always consistent problem on the Xbox... can too easily chop down a few trees and quickly build a couple boat kits and then hop between biomes to my base in less then a minute or two when I had INTENTIONALLY placed my base a billion miles away from their spawning location to prevent them from reaching it in a short amount of time. Completely avoiding any and all of the Trivial progress I had to go through myself in order to get there. 

At least with the bridge idea the player has to actually travel around the map and put in a tiny bit more of effort to make them as an available option.

TL:DR Please NERF Boat Kits and make this type of bridging between biomes cost more resources and more of the players time and effort. Players who Want them to exist will still build the new bridges... while players too lazy to gather a few more materials will stop being able to toss Boat Kits down as Water Platforms and quickly travel all over the map. 

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GetNerfedOn    4,445

Another question I have: how precisely are you going to nerf boat kits such that they aren't used as bridges? You haven't mentioned it.

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CameoAppearance    1,551

If your problem is that griefers are coming to your base from adjacent biomes through boat kits, put marble trees along the coastline so they run into that bug where you slam into the object while trying to jump off the boat and fall into the water. Or at least, that's a persistent bug on PC. You could also try lighting the boats on fire, but that requires you to board them and place a campfire, then possibly add extra fuel to the campfire to speed things up; neither the boat nor the boarding plank can be ignited with a torch or fire staff.

Edited by CameoAppearance
typo
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Mike23Ua    3,062
38 minutes ago, GetNerfedOn said:

Another question I have: how precisely are you going to nerf boat kits such that they aren't used as bridges? You haven't mentioned it.

This post isn’t about nerfing the big boat bridge people build from the man land to Lunar Island  I’m sure Klei will nerf that themselves at some point by adding a lot more new content to the currently mostly empty looking oceans, most likely a boat eating Whale or Kraken or harsh boat rocking waves or something..

This post is about the boat kits being used in tiny streams to cross between gaps in Biomes and the nerf to that is simple: Make the water gap between biomes smaller so that those really large round Cookie Boats simply no longer fit in them.

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Mike23Ua    3,062
11 minutes ago, CameoAppearance said:

You ignored everything @GetNerfedOn said about changing the worldgen code to narrow the rivers being a burdensome change that would be ineffective anyway if players who wanted to make boat bridges built them at the edge of the sea. Here, let me draw you a picture of what people would do if you got your wish:

sneakyboat.png.4b39e7bd4b64ecc3d0a685b290a586d6.png

Placing boats at the edge of the world isn’t the problem.. placing them dead center of the world IS the Problem.

if you want to build a boat to sail from one Biome to another that is something that couldn’t and shouldn’t ever be prevented, but if you choose to do like in my above GIF where you place them into a Tiny Stream in the center of the map where the cookie is wedged in between tiny gaps in the land.. again as seen in the Gif..

then That particular boat with no anchor or anything at all holding it in place should probably bounce back and forth between the edges of the Biome until it cracks and sinks.

But that would cause tons of lag.. which is probably why they don’t move and break, Yet the entire scenario altogether can be avoided by simply making the stream smaller so that the boat can’t fit into it.

IM not saying to NERF BOATING I’m saying to NERF BOAT KIT PLACEMENT.

(sorry for the confusion)

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Mike23Ua    3,062
12 hours ago, CameoAppearance said:

If your base is in the center of the map then I think I know how the griefers keep getting to it. 

I don’t understand this.. I’m playing on XBOX our maps are already a lot smaller than the PC Versions. and Boat Kits being used to hop around it all over everywhere takes away from having to path around the streams into the actual biomes themselves.

its like: what would normally take you 20-30 minutes to reach, now only takes 1 minute and 20 Seconds.

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Mike23Ua    3,062
19 minutes ago, 1bubbainpa said:

WE KNOW

If you’re basing in the center of the map, then theoretically all the biomes should be within a half-a-days length from the base. I don’t know how it would take you more than 20 minutes to get to a specific biome even with basic movement speed.

That’s easy to answer actually, I had to go through swamps full of hostile Merms, Biomes full of Tier 3 Spider Nests, Cave Tunnels and Wormholes to get to where I choose to place my base...

the other guy comes in & builds a couple boat kits bypassing all that content by placing wooden platforms into all the TINY streams I had to path around and he gets there in a few seconds.

The title of this thread was to please nerf Boat Kits.. how do you nerf Boat Kits? You make the gap of water between biomes in those TINY streams A bit smaller, so that those enormously large boat kit cookies no longer fit into them. 

I realize that he can just build a boat bridge from point A to Point B over the actual Outside layer of the map through the entire ocean, but that’s going to take a lot more time to do then just tossing one tiny 4 plank of wood boat into a small stream in the middle of the map and jumping between biomes.

he would either need to build ALOT of Boat Kits, or craft a fully functional boat with Sail, Anchor, Mast, Steering Wheel.

——————————————

 

TL:DR- I LIKE the Boats when they’re used as they were designed to be used, I also like the general IDEA of placing a structure in the Water to cross the gap between tiny streams...

What I DO NOT LIKE is how 4 Plank Boat Kits are a One Stop Solve all Problem to everything....

Edited by Mike23Ua

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TemporaryMan    1,492
13 hours ago, CameoAppearance said:

If your problem is that griefers are coming to your base from adjacent biomes through boat kits, put marble trees along the coastline so they run into that bug where you slam into the object while trying to jump off the boat and fall into the water. Or at least, that's a persistent bug on PC. You could also try lighting the boats on fire, but that requires you to board them and place a campfire, then possibly add extra fuel to the campfire to speed things up; neither the boat nor the boarding plank can be ignited with a torch or fire staff.

Torches might not, but lightning can set boats on fire.  A telelocator could be useful for keeping griefers' boats at bay.  Or... not at bay, more like the sea floor?

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ShadowDuelist    4,915

How about a middle ground boat upgrade? 

We keep the boat bridges, and Klei adds some stuff you can build in them to link them better, keep them stationed, and make them look like an actual bridge

To make it worth upgrading instead of leaving them as they are now, when you make an actual bridge out of a boat group, you no longer jump between platforms (they get permanently linked) and you run over it faster, as if you were on cobblestone.

Edited by ShadowDuelist
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Mike23Ua    3,062
27 minutes ago, ShadowDuelist said:

How about a middle ground boat upgrade? 

We keep the boat bridges, and Klei adds some stuff you can build in them to link them better, keep them stationed, and make them look like an actual bridge

To make it worth upgrading instead of leaving them as they are now, when you make an actual bridge out of a boat group, you no longer jump between platforms (they get permanently linked) and you run over it faster, as if you were on cobblestone.

Yes, I like this idea, as long as Un-upgraded unstable wooden plank boats will crash into the side of the land and break apart.

All I want is for it to cost more resources then it does currently (and to be prettier looking than they are now..)

because 4 Planks of Wood just Isn’t Enough. 

This is a perfect Nerf to Boat Kits.

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Shosuko    944

How about we buff boat kits instead?  Add 2 rope to the recipe, give them a mooring line that lets you anchor them to land included.  Then I don't need so much stone when I'm just making a boat bridge.

Edited by Shosuko

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Mike23Ua    3,062
48 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

How about we buff boat kits instead?  Add 2 rope to the recipe, give them a mooring line that lets you anchor them to land included.  Then I don't need so much stone when I'm just making a boat bridge.

Stone?? What no, even my Idea for creating pretty bridges do not consist of Stone.

I want it to cost a reasonable amount more of resources, to do the land hopping instead of just FOUR WOODEN PLANKS.. but I don’t want it to feel like an Extreme Punishment. 

People Using Boat Kits as Platforms was Creative.. and I like that concept, but I would prefer it to require more ingredients to build a land bridge

2 ropes, 8 Twigs, 6 wooden planks.

And to place it you put one end on one side of the Biome and then actually have to travel (or Soul Hop) to the other end and place the connecting point.

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Queron81    422
On 21.1.2020 at 4:45 AM, CameoAppearance said:

Especially since it makes you drop your current equipment on the other side of the river.

Or just put your items from hand and head slot in your inventory before transforming.

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CameoAppearance    1,551

Simpler but admittedly slower solution to your boat bridge problem: Make an oar. Stand on boat bridge. Row once in literally any direction. Wait for it to start bouncing off the riverbanks and shake itself apart.

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Mike23Ua    3,062
6 hours ago, CameoAppearance said:

Simpler but admittedly slower solution to your boat bridge problem: Make an oar. Stand on boat bridge. Row once in literally any direction. Wait for it to start bouncing off the riverbanks and shake itself apart.

I’m slightly confused TBH, I remember reading a post where someone talks about their boats randomly drifting away when they are off screen... But yet these Boat Bridges do not destroy themselves.

Honestly I just want it to cost a few more resources and to not be so easy as 4 wooden planks.. it would be great if players had to put a little more effort into actually playing the game and exploring the environment.

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CameoAppearance    1,551

Boats only start moving from the spot where they've been placed when a player moves them. Or possibly a mob, but I think only the Gnarwail and Malbatross can do that, and you won't run into them inland. Once they start moving, they only stop moving if they're anchored down. It might have been a bug, or if this was a boat bridge to the moon it could have been ocean mobs.

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Dunk Mujunk    1,045
On 1/20/2020 at 1:25 PM, Dunk Mujunk said:

I'm currently in the middle of a test (which has been put on the back burner as we prepare for our first ever attempt at Misery Toad) in which i've placed a 6x6 square of boats far into the ocean. For the first phase, all were anchored, and after finishing in spring and spending summer in the caves, I returned to find them all in place. The following spring I removed the anchor from 2 boats in the middle of the formation, raised the anchor from 2 boats in the middle of the formation, removed the anchor from 1 boat on the perimeter, and raised the anchor of 1 boat on the perimeter (the boats in the middle were surrounded by anchored boats). I was surprised when I returned the following autumn to find all boats still intact and in place.

That was a year or so ago game time, and I haven't been back out since, but it seems a bit weird. On our first map with Hook Line and Inker I built a bridge to the closest salt formations I could find, and every boat was destroyed in place when I came back. I also make throwaway boats in the beginning of every map for exploring, and on our current map at this point i've found I think every throwaway boat I made adrift far from where I landed it.

what a boat does when the player is away still seems a bit unpredictable. I have built the type of boat bridges discussed in this thread on a previous map, 2 boats wide at the most, and even unanchored they did still stay in place. Yet an actual boat dumped on the coast unanchored seems to float away pretty quick.

What boats do when players are away seems to be unpredictable. I've spent quite a bit of time actively studying the topic.

Edited by Dunk Mujunk

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