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aresd

Water Sieve is bug?

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aresd    96

The Water Sieve SUDDENLY, it is not clear for what reason, it starts to give out water much hotter. For example, incoming dirty water is 22 degrees, sand is 22 degrees, leaving clean water is 45 degrees. What is problem? Bug?

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aresd    96
4 minutes ago, suxkar said:

A save file would be helpful!

after restart everything becomes normal. This does not help, unfortunately. This problem occurs right during the game.

the Metal Refinery each time gives out water with a radically changed temperature during the smelting of the same ore. Contaminated water of -10 degrees is fed to the entrance. At the outlet, the water can be 20 degrees, and at some point, the water can become 45 degrees.

I noticed this when all my berries stopped growing. All the time the water was +15 and suddenly the water became +45. Iron smelting

 

2020-01-05_20-04-47.png

2020-01-05_20-05-35.png

it's just an incredible change in temperature. This has never happened before.

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Ixenzo    62

Check if the sieve has much hotter sand/regolith in its internal storage and it uses that over the cold one first. Reloading would probably reset the priorities and "fix" it for some time.

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aresd    96
Posted (edited)

The same problem with a water purifier. I start the game, in a water purifier, sand is 22 degrees, water is 22 degrees, at the outlet 22 degrees of pure water. You start doing your own business, some other tasks, at some point I pay attention to the water purifier and the water comes out of it is already excessively hot. At this moment I save the game, go to the main menu and go back in and clear water of normal temperature comes out again. I thought it was just a rare bug, but it began to manifest itself too often.

12 minutes ago, Ixenzo said:

Check if the sieve has much hotter sand/regolith in its internal storage and it uses that over the cold one first. Reloading would probably reset the priorities and "fix" it for some time.

I have not even come to the surface, I'm in the next biomes. I just don’t have such temperatures

after reboot after iron smelting2020-01-05_20-16-45.thumb.png.77e45d444c3ae153663d0c4055ad7ba6.png

It is heppen AGAIN. OMG. I just do not want play more....Every time I return to this game, I am met by a billion new bugs.

2020-01-05_20-27-30.png

2020-01-05_20-28-50.png

2020-01-05_20-29-33.png

Juat after reboot game. Nothing change

2020-01-05_20-32-41.png

2020-01-05_20-34-52.png

Klei, just do something with this ****. Unable to play

Космическая Тюрьма.sav

Edited by aresd

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KittenIsAGeek    1,443

There are two ways I can reproduce the problem you're having:  

  1. The filtration medium (sand) is very hot.
  2. Or the sieve itself is very hot.

I loaded your file and your sieve is running hot.  It is at 42C.  This is what is affecting your output temperature the most.   I cooled your sieve down with cold water from your pod and here's the result:

Spoiler

image.thumb.png.c0bf61ff82eead69c09dcce5f74c2391.png

image.thumb.png.944ff1049129a67833311e153ba0d4ad.png

 

@aresd

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aresd    96
4 minutes ago, KittenIsAGeek said:

There are two ways I can reproduce the problem you're having:  

  1. The filtration medium (sand) is very hot.
  2. Or the sieve itself is very hot.

I loaded your file and your sieve is running hot.  It is at 42C.  This is what is affecting your output temperature the most.   I cooled your sieve down with cold water from your pod and here's the result:

  Hide contents

image.thumb.png.c0bf61ff82eead69c09dcce5f74c2391.png

image.thumb.png.944ff1049129a67833311e153ba0d4ad.png

 

@aresd

I showed you a screenshot. The sand is cold, dirty water is cold, and hot water comes out of the purifier. I perfectly understand how the mechanics of temperature changes work and how it depends on the filter material. I read the patch. Look here.

2020-01-05_20-27-30.png

2020-01-05_20-28-50.png

2020-01-05_20-29-33.png

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aresd    96
Just now, KittenIsAGeek said:

@aresd

Your Sieve Was 42 C.  I cooled it down.  Now your output is correct.

You probably do not understand the Russian language. In the last screenshot, we see the following:

Sand 24.4 degrees
Dirty water 22.1 degrees
Pure water 38.4 degrees at the exit.

This is treated only by restarting the game.

P.S

Yes, of course, but in this case, why, after a restart, does the water temperature return to normal? All these screenshots were taken almost at the same time. The temperature of the building remained the same.

2020-01-05_21-12-42.png

2020-01-05_21-13-19.png

2020-01-05_21-13-46.png

how does this work at all? I do not understand. At some point, I see the average temperature, but at some point it stops working

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Ixenzo    62
34 minutes ago, aresd said:

You probably do not understand the Russian language

Сам дистиллятор горячий, и он нагревает воду. @KittenIsAGeek охладил его водой на полу, и теперь вода на выходе из дистиллятора холоднее.

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KittenIsAGeek    1,443
Just now, aresd said:

Sand 24.4 degrees
Dirty water 22.1 degrees
Pure water 38.4 degrees at the exit.

Water Sieve itself: 42 degrees.  THAT is your problem.

I can't speak for the restart itself changing things. That hasn't happened to me with the save you linked.  However, shortly after I started the play, the PW from your refinery stopped flowing to the sieve.  This allowed the sieve time to cool down.

Spoiler

image.png.e29fb0c51d52ea38b6598597dd8e4d27.png

The first few packets out of the sieve are at the temperature you expect.

Spoiler

image.png.94c128580b5b3271f9248e1c6e0af579.png

 

 

OK, now I'm confused. LOL.  I loaded your original file again.  When it first loaded, the output was 38C.  I let the sieve cool down on its own, and when it restarted the output was back at 22C.  When running continuously, the sieve temperature increased to 46C, but the water output temperature remained 22.2C.  

I let the system run for a dozen cycles without changing anything and could not reproduce the problem you're having.   The hottest the sieve reached was just shy of 47C.  The hottest the output water reached was 22.4C.  In fact, with the super cold sand, the output water temperature was lower than the input.  

image.png.36748b21e07ad2cf77e5765633502479.png

You can see here that your sieve temperature is 35.7 C, the sand is -12.3 C, the PW coming in is 22.1 C, and the water going out is 20.8 C.

 

Although, at cycle 514, there was a set of water coming from the smelter that was substantially warmer:

image.png.2c280eba25e8ff85781d31b262814325.png

 

So I went back and reloaded your original save file and checked.  There's a little gap between the hot water and the cold:

image.png.475a4aee9433ace4fe21d64672950c7b.png

My suspicion is that you had some hotter water from the smelter, perhaps from a steel run instead of iron.  You saved the game and paused it JUST as the last of the hot water was processed, but before the cold water started coming out.

image.png.d9cb1af674bfdcea7b726f314fd8ef9d.png

Soooo....

TL;DR:

Sometimes you have much hotter water coming out of your smelter.  It results in much hotter water going out of your sieve.

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aresd    96
1 hour ago, KittenIsAGeek said:

Water Sieve itself: 42 degrees.  THAT is your problem.

I can't speak for the restart itself changing things. That hasn't happened to me with the save you linked.  However, shortly after I started the play, the PW from your refinery stopped flowing to the sieve.  This allowed the sieve time to cool down.

  Hide contents

image.png.e29fb0c51d52ea38b6598597dd8e4d27.png

The first few packets out of the sieve are at the temperature you expect.

  Reveal hidden contents

image.png.94c128580b5b3271f9248e1c6e0af579.png

 

 

OK, now I'm confused. LOL.  I loaded your original file again.  When it first loaded, the output was 38C.  I let the sieve cool down on its own, and when it restarted the output was back at 22C.  When running continuously, the sieve temperature increased to 46C, but the water output temperature remained 22.2C.  

I let the system run for a dozen cycles without changing anything and could not reproduce the problem you're having.   The hottest the sieve reached was just shy of 47C.  The hottest the output water reached was 22.4C.  In fact, with the super cold sand, the output water temperature was lower than the input.  

image.png.36748b21e07ad2cf77e5765633502479.png

You can see here that your sieve temperature is 35.7 C, the sand is -12.3 C, the PW coming in is 22.1 C, and the water going out is 20.8 C.

 

Although, at cycle 514, there was a set of water coming from the smelter that was substantially warmer:

image.png.2c280eba25e8ff85781d31b262814325.png

 

So I went back and reloaded your original save file and checked.  There's a little gap between the hot water and the cold:

image.png.475a4aee9433ace4fe21d64672950c7b.png

My suspicion is that you had some hotter water from the smelter, perhaps from a steel run instead of iron.  You saved the game and paused it JUST as the last of the hot water was processed, but before the cold water started coming out.

image.png.d9cb1af674bfdcea7b726f314fd8ef9d.png

Soooo....

TL;DR:

Sometimes you have much hotter water coming out of your smelter.  It results in much hotter water going out of your sieve.

 

I heard (on the forums) that the manufacture of a different metal leads to lower / higher heating of the coolant. But there is no information about this in the documentation of the game , but I only smelted iron. Why such incredible jumps in temperature under equal conditions? The heat capacity of water is huge.

Where did you get the sand -12 degrees? This was not on my map

 

P.S Many thanks to the developers of this game, who can not even issue basic documentation about their game. I hate you all. Because of your mistakes and inaccuracies, your game causes more hatred than pleasure.

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KittenIsAGeek    1,443
Just now, aresd said:

I heard (on the forums) that the manufacture of a different metal leads to lower / higher heating of the coolant. But there is no information about this in the documentation of the game , but I only smelted iron. Why such incredible jumps in temperature under equal conditions? The heat capacity of water is huge.

There is a thread somewhere that someone broke it all down.  There's also a chart here:

https://oxygennotincluded.gamepedia.com/Metal_Refinery

Your refinery is set to automatically smelt iron and steel.  Steel generates a lot more heat.

 

3 minutes ago, aresd said:

Where did you get the sand -12 degrees? This was not on my map

I have no idea. Like I said in my post, I just let the game run and I watched things.

4 minutes ago, aresd said:

P.S Many thanks to the developers of this game, who can not even issue basic documentation about their game. I hate you all. Because of your mistakes and inaccuracies, your game causes more hatred than pleasure.

There is basic documentation.

image.png.e23083d055a010ef3578a0bdabc9a51e.png

Its the little book icon.  However, it is only basic information.  It answers most questions that I have about the game.

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aresd    96
Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, KittenIsAGeek said:

There is a thread somewhere that someone broke it all down.  There's also a chart here:

https://oxygennotincluded.gamepedia.com/Metal_Refinery

Your refinery is set to automatically smelt iron and steel.  Steel generates a lot more heat.

 

I have no idea. Like I said in my post, I just let the game run and I watched things.

There is basic documentation.

image.png.e23083d055a010ef3578a0bdabc9a51e.png

Its the little book icon.  However, it is only basic information.  It answers most questions that I have about the game.

There is not much information, for example, if you recall the latter, about the amount of food consumed and the amount of resources allocated to animals. This documentation is useless. For the most part, it looks like the lore, but not the documentation for the game.

but there is no information in the description of the building. There is only the 16 kdte/s and the fact that most of the energy goes into the water ... Oh! I think I figured out why a different temperature is obtained when the same material is smelted. It all depends on the speed of smelting. And the speed of smelting depends on the level of mechanics of the duplicate. Therefore, depending on who took on this task, we get different temperatures of the output liquid

Edited by aresd

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aresd    96
8 hours ago, KittenIsAGeek said:

There is a thread somewhere that someone broke it all down.  There's also a chart here:

https://oxygennotincluded.gamepedia.com/Metal_Refinery

Your refinery is set to automatically smelt iron and steel.  Steel generates a lot more heat.

I am not good at English. And the Russian version of such a guide is poor. There is not much there, but much has outdated information. Still, it is not without reason that the main reason I bought the game is the fact that it supports the Russian language. A translation through Google turns any article into crazy nonsense)

I seem to understand Klei’s business model. Create a game in which all game mechanics are published on a special forum / wikipedia. Double profit. Purchased game and high traffic to search for answers.

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bleeter6    204
Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, aresd said:

Double profit.

??? What are you smoking? The business model is English ---> other languages ---> if you want Russian do it yourself.

Edited by bleeter6

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KittenIsAGeek    1,443
Posted (edited)

I only speak English, so I'm not sure what else I can do.  I learned most of the game mechanics by trial and error and I personally haven't used the wiki to actually learn anything.  I've gotten a few ideas from this forum, but mostly I just try things and see if they work.  If they don't, then I play around to figure out what I need to change.  

The table that I linked above?  All the information is already in the game for you to build a table of your own.  All you need to do is find the melting point of the material, calculate the total thermal energy difference between 40C and its melting point, and then take 80% of that value.

Lets take smelting gold, for example.  We can find the melting point and SHC of gold in the database.  Its melting point is 1063.9 C and it has a SHC of 0.129 DTU/g/C.  The smelter works in 100kg chunks, so:

1063.9 - 40 = 1023.9 C.  That's our temperature delta.  So: 0.129 * 100kg * 1023.9 C = 13.2 million DTU.  Admittedly, the 80% factor is hidden, but you could calculate that out on your own just by watching the change in coolant temperature.  Anyway, 13.2 million * 0.8 = 10.6 million DTU.  That is the amount of heat that will be applied to your coolant.

So, lets say your coolant is water at 10C.  By watching the smelter operate, you can measure the amount of coolant it uses per cycle.  This turns out to be 400kg.  We are applying 10.6 million DTU to 400kg of water, which looks like this: 10.6 million / 400kg / 4.179 (SHC of water) = 6.321 C.  The input water will be at 10 C, the output water will be at 16.3 C after smelting 100kg of gold amalgum into gold.

Edited by KittenIsAGeek
clarification

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aresd    96
Just now, bleeter6 said:

??? What are you smoking?

that the authors smoke, that in my memory they are already turning the second game into garbage due to the fact that most of the time the game needs to be spent outside the game in search of information about a game mechanic. It seems to me that they lost a very large audience of players simply because of this.

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bleeter6    204
Just now, aresd said:

that the authors smoke, that in my memory they are already turning the second game into garbage due to the fact that most of the time the game needs to be spent outside the game in search of information about a game mechanic. It seems to me that they lost a very large audience of players simply because of this.

And it seems to ME that you live in a bubble.

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KittenIsAGeek    1,443
1 minute ago, aresd said:

that the authors smoke, that in my memory they are already turning the second game into garbage due to the fact that most of the time the game needs to be spent outside the game in search of information about a game mechanic. It seems to me that they lost a very large audience of players simply because of this.

I haven't played any other Klei games, so I can't verify that they are "already turning the second game into garbage."  ONI is great, IMHO.  I don't spend time outside of the game to search for information about game mechanics.  So I don't really understand where you're coming from.  Sorry.

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aresd    96
3 minutes ago, bleeter6 said:

And it seems to ME that you live in a bubble.

No, I just look at the popularity on twitch as well as the difference in activity on the forum then and now. Don't starve was a short time very popular with many of my friends in Steam. Then, according to their own words, they abandoned it, because the game became unplayable, if you did not install a billion mods. As I understand it, the fate of this game will be the same

5 minutes ago, KittenIsAGeek said:

I haven't played any other Klei games, so I can't verify that they are "already turning the second game into garbage."  ONI is great, IMHO.  I don't spend time outside of the game to search for information about game mechanics.  So I don't really understand where you're coming from.  Sorry.

I use Russian in the game. Judging by your perplexity, I am already beginning to suspect that the Russian version is somehow circumcised. To facilitate translation or lack of knowledge of the language, many things were removed from the game

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bleeter6    204

There is so much wrong with your post that I'm just not gonna bother. To the ignore list you go.

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KittenIsAGeek    1,443

Well, your save file worked just fine on my non-Russian language machine.  I don't use any mods, and when I first ran your save it popped up a dialogue informing me that I did not have any of the many mods you were using.  I have no experience with "Don't Starve," but ONI is definitely very playable without mods.

I suspect that the only difference between Russian and English versions of the game are the translations.  I doubt that Klei has a member of the staff that can do the translations in house, so they're probably relying on a third party or perhaps volunteers from the player base.  IDK. *shrug*

The community appears to be active, with Steam's community hub showing over 5600 players in the game currently.  I see new mods and guides posted almost daily.  I see a lot of activity on this forum.  All of that suggests that this game is doing just fine and isn't dying any time soon.

It is unfortunate that you are having difficulties enjoying the game.  I don't think blaming Klei for your lack of fun is the right way to go about it, though.

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aresd    96
26 minutes ago, KittenIsAGeek said:

Well, your save file worked just fine on my non-Russian language machine.  I don't use any mods, and when I first ran your save it popped up a dialogue informing me that I did not have any of the many mods you were using.  I have no experience with "Don't Starve," but ONI is definitely very playable without mods.

Exactly. These mods are crutches for a game that developers have not taken care of. For example, cameras that increase zoom, in order to evaluate the construction of the base more accurately or to allow it to go beyond the borders, so that you can easily build on the borders

 

28 minutes ago, bleeter6 said:

There is so much wrong with your post that I'm just not gonna bother. To the ignore list you go.

mutual exchange. I would love to delete my account here in principle, if it were possible. I get a lot of displeasure to participate in the English-speaking community, because I don’t know English and every time they perceive me wrongly and aggressively or do not understand my idea due to the fact that I use Google translator.

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KittenIsAGeek    1,443
1 minute ago, aresd said:

Exactly. These mods are crutches for a game that developers have not taken care of. For example, cameras that increase zoom, in order to evaluate the construction of the base more accurately or to allow it to go beyond the borders, so that you can easily build on the borders

You don't need a mod to see the entire map.  Use screenshot mode (ALT-S) and then you can scroll the view out as far as you want.  Here's my current map:

Spoiler

image.thumb.png.dab201ec37070bb7a7b2f04ad6125bc4.png

Yes, I know, I haven't explored much on this one.  Yet.

I have never wanted or needed to build on the borders, even when I've revealed the entire map.  So I didn't realize that was an issue you needed to "fix."  I will have to try to build on the border without mods and see what happens.

I have read a lot of posts where others state that mods are necessary to "fix" game problems, but I play without mods and I don't have problems that need to be fixed.  

 

7 minutes ago, aresd said:

I get a lot of displeasure to participate in the English-speaking community, because I don’t know English and every time they perceive me wrongly and aggressively or do not understand my idea due to the fact that I use Google translator.

I apologize if I have come across aggressive.  I am trying to understand.  I use Google Translator frequently to discuss things with others in various countries.  It isn't perfect, but it does a remarkable job.  I hope your next discussion is more enjoyable.  

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