Water Sieve is bug?

[Guest]

1 minute ago, KittenIsAGeek said:

You don't need a mod to see the entire map.  Use screenshot mode (ALT-S) and then you can scroll the view out as far as you want.  Here's my current map:

Is it possible to build buildings?

 

4 minutes ago, KittenIsAGeek said:

I have never wanted or needed to build on the borders, even when I've revealed the entire map.  So I didn't realize that was an issue you needed to "fix."  I will have to try to build on the border without mods and see what happens.

I have read a lot of posts where others state that mods are necessary to "fix" game problems, but I play without mods and I don't have problems that need to be fixed.  

It is necessary to proceed in circumstances. At least I need one mod, this is the Russian language mod, because the official in some places even gives conflicting information. For example, a timer. In the timer description in the constructions menu and in the timer description, when you aim at its automation port, directly opposite information is written. And there are a million such annoying things, not to mention the fact that much continues to be in English.

 

7 minutes ago, KittenIsAGeek said:

I apologize if I have come across aggressive.  I am trying to understand.  I use Google Translator frequently to discuss things with others in various countries.  It isn't perfect, but it does a remarkable job.  I hope your next discussion is more enjoyable.  

Even my apologies to the signature have no effect. Google translator very often translates some words very rudely. But I can’t look at the translation options for each word to fix it on a softer one. I got a lot of misunderstandings on this forum simply because of the translator. That is why I try to come here as rarely as possible and when I have exhausted all the resources to find a solution to the problem except this place.

[Ixenzo]

@aresd Если есть желание, в следующий раз можешь черкануть мне в личку. Я либо отвечу самостоятельно, либо буду посредником-переводчиком на форуме. Все лучше, чем непонятки из-за машинного перевода.

[Prince Mandor]

On 1/5/2020 at 8:12 PM, aresd said:

 

Please, don't call for Klei to fix your problems

In your save game you have lots of hot machinery (including Sieve itself). In your base it is surrounded by CO2. CO2 transfer heat very slowly, so this heat mostly stay with them. But there are some blobs of other gases (blob of hydrogen seen on screenshot), and this blobs just moves randomly. If hydrogen come in contact with Drive at 42°C, it transfers this heat to nearby objects, also to water stored inside Drive. Water became hotter. After that this 5 kg of hot water mix in pipe with another packet of water, becaming 10 kg of warm water.

This is just mechanic

[Ixenzo]

1 hour ago, Prince Mandor said:

to water stored inside Drive

Buildings' internal storage is insulated, is it not?

[Prince Mandor]

35 minutes ago, Ixenzo said:

Buildings' internal storage is insulated, is it not?

'No' for most buildings.

Materials in internal storage considered debrices on bottom left-center cell of this building (often this is a cell with power connector)

As all debrices they slowly exchange heat with gas or liquid in this cell and with tile under this cell.

So, you can see one isolated tile under equipment, or mesh tile with vacuum in this exact place, to isolate building content

[KittenIsAGeek]

The answer is both "Yes" and "No."  Internal storage is insulated, but its statistics are taken from the material the building is made of. For example, the "liquid reservoir" building can only be made out of metal ores.  These have a high conductivity, even in "insulating" form.  The "insulating" version of a material reduces it thermal conductivity by a factor of 100.  Igneous goes from a TC of 2.0 to 0.02 when built as insulating tiles.  Ceramic goes from a TC of 0.62 to a TC of 0.0062.  Copper ore goes from a TC of 4.5 to 0.045 while Gold Amalgam has the same TC as Igneous.  

So, the best material for isolating a tank full of water would be gold amalgam -- but it still has a relatively high thermal conductivity when compared to an actually insulating material such as Ceramic of Insulation.  Thus over the course of a dozen cycles, the PW in my Liquid Reservoir has warmed from -9.6 C to -8.8 C because the room the reservoir is sitting in is 55 C.

[Zarquan]

16 minutes ago, KittenIsAGeek said:

The answer is both "Yes" and "No."  Internal storage is insulated, but its statistics are taken from the material the building is made of. For example, the "liquid reservoir" building can only be made out of metal ores.  These have a high conductivity, even in "insulating" form.  The "insulating" version of a material reduces it thermal conductivity by a factor of 100.  Igneous goes from a TC of 2.0 to 0.02 when built as insulating tiles.  Ceramic goes from a TC of 0.62 to a TC of 0.0062.  Copper ore goes from a TC of 4.5 to 0.045 while Gold Amalgam has the same TC as Igneous.  

So, the best material for isolating a tank full of water would be gold amalgam -- but it still has a relatively high thermal conductivity when compared to an actually insulating material such as Ceramic of Insulation.  Thus over the course of a dozen cycles, the PW in my Liquid Reservoir has warmed from -9.6 C to -8.8 C because the room the reservoir is sitting in is 55 C.

The contents of a liquid reservoir are not in contact with the reservoir.  This can be demonstrated by putting a liquid reservoir in a vacuum on top of airflow tiles.

No building is in thermal contact with its contents.  (Pipes not included in this).

Materials within a building are treated as debris by the game in one of the tiles of the building.  They transfer heat to the air tile they are in and the ground tile they are above.  For example, liquid reservoirs store their liquid on the same tile as the output pipe.

[KittenIsAGeek]

33 minutes ago, Zarquan said:

The contents of a liquid reservoir are not in contact with the reservoir.  This can be demonstrated by putting a liquid reservoir in a vacuum on top of airflow tiles.

The contents of a liquid reservoir are in contact with the environment using the insulated properties of the material the reservoir is built from.  You are correct -- the reservoir building itself does not change temperature due to its contents, and the contents do not change temperature based on the temperature of the reservoir.  BUT the contents DO interact with the environment around the building, using the insulated properties of the material the building was constructed with.

[Zarquan]

47 minutes ago, KittenIsAGeek said:

The contents of a liquid reservoir are in contact with the environment using the insulated properties of the material the reservoir is built from.  You are correct -- the reservoir building itself does not change temperature due to its contents, and the contents do not change temperature based on the temperature of the reservoir.  BUT the contents DO interact with the environment around the building, using the insulated properties of the material the building was constructed with.

Are you sure about that?  That seems like a very strange way for the game to handle this.  I will have to run an experiment when I can. 

A simple partial test would be to make a liquid reservoir on metal tiles in a vacuum and see how the temperature of the floor changes over time. 

Testing for atmosphere is harder, as the building itself becomes a problem.

[psusi]

5 hours ago, Zarquan said:

Are you sure about that?  That seems like a very strange way for the game to handle this.  I will have to run an experiment when I can. 

A simple partial test would be to make a liquid reservoir on metal tiles in a vacuum and see how the temperature of the floor changes over time. 

Testing for atmosphere is harder, as the building itself becomes a problem.

I'm not sure about this part about the "insulated" part of the building, but I do know that material stored in the building is just like debris on the ground... it exchanges heat with the gas/liquid in that one tile where it is considered to be, so if you want to stop it, you have to keep vacuum there and in the tile under it with mesh tile.

[nakomaru]

14 hours ago, KittenIsAGeek said:

The contents of a liquid reservoir are in contact with the environment using the insulated properties of the material the reservoir is built from.

No, contents of all buildings only interact as if they are ordinary debris in front of the building in the root tile.

(Debris can interact thermally with the medium of the tile it occupies, or, if it fails to due to equilibrium or thermal clamping, can interact with the medium of the tile below.)

The exception is in the case of buildings with the "insulated" flag, such as the pitcher pump, rocket tanks, and the ice maker and probably the refrigerator. In which case the contents are thermally isolated from the world. But the material properties of the building won't change any of this.

Proof:

Contents is 1t of hot steel.

[KittenIsAGeek]

I stand corrected.

[QuantumPion]

I recently experienced this bug in my current game. It appeared that the water sieve contained 0.0 kg of pwater at 19 F from a cool slush geyser that it had been previously processing (which was causing the output pipe to break due to freezing). When I Iater fed it warmer pwater from a refinery, the water output was still freezing and breaking the output pipe and was at 19 F even though the input pwater was > 60 F. At this point the sieve said it contained both 0.0 kg of 19 F pwater and 10 kg of 60 F pwater. So it seems like the stuck 0.0 kg of pwater was overriding the output temperature.
 

I fixed the problem by deconstructing and reconstructing the sieve. After which the water was coming out at the same temperature as the input pwater. I know the issue was not due to sand temperature as I had no spare sand and the new sieve was refilled with the same sand from the ground.

[Ixenzo]

I have noticed some building contents shenanigans as of late as well. Like a refinery containing dirt or several instances or coolant at wildly different temperatures at the same time (which was piped from the same exact tempshifted source), or research station containing coal, etc.

[Prince Mandor]

15 hours ago, QuantumPion said:

I recently experienced this bug in my current game. It appeared that the water sieve contained 0.0 kg of pwater at 19 F from a cool slush geyser that it had been previously processing (which was causing the output pipe to break due to freezing). When I Iater fed it warmer pwater from a refinery, the water output was still freezing and breaking the output pipe and was at 19 F even though the input pwater was > 60 F. At this point the sieve said it contained both 0.0 kg of 19 F pwater and 10 kg of 60 F pwater. So it seems like the stuck 0.0 kg of pwater was overriding the output temperature.
 

I fixed the problem by deconstructing and reconstructing the sieve. After which the water was coming out at the same temperature as the input pwater. I know the issue was not due to sand temperature as I had no spare sand and the new sieve was refilled with the same sand from the ground.

Possibly, there was sand from cold biome.

After you deconstruct Sieve this sand drops out and after reconstruction dupes reload Sieve with warm sand from some other place

Another possibility is cold p.water was cleared and became too cold clean water. It was send to output and freeze in pipe. But pipe breaks before all 5 kg leaves system, so technically this water was stuck in green output port of Sieve, waiting for pipe. You fix pipe - output port sends water down it and freeze again. Sometimes it takes multiple fixes for a pipe to let all 5 kg of ice out of it