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Warly's food memory and penalty should apply to all characters


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9 hours ago, Jessie223 said:

punching seven butterflies gives 65.625
- picking and cooking five berries gives 62.5
- picking and cooking five cacti gives 62.5
- picking five carrots gives 62.5
- harvesting two juicy berry bushes gives 75
- harvesting a full bee box gives 56.25
- killing one beefalo gives 100
- killing one beefalo and making meaty stew (with fillers) gives 300
- making bacon and eggs (2 eggs 1 monster 0.5 meat) gives 75
- making honey ham (1 meat
1 monster 1 honey 1 filler) gives 75

All these consume more time for finding ingredients and has its limited resources and it regrow too slowly, meanwhile making meatballs consume >2 mins if we considered that your icebox is full of ice that never spoil and there is spider nest nearby not to mention you can make a LOT of them in seconds.

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16 minutes ago, Alexias said:

All these consume more time for finding ingredients and has its limited resources and it regrow too slowly, meanwhile making meatballs consume >2 mins if we considered that your icebox is full of ice that never spoil and there is spider nest nearby not to mention you can make a LOT of them in seconds.

Everything has their pros and cons. Making meatballs you still have to lose time going back to a crockpot early game, ice isn't readily available in caves and you risky someone eating the 200+ ices you put in an icebox that you got on a public server.

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23 minutes ago, Alexias said:

All these consume more time for finding ingredients and has its limited resources and it regrow too slowly, meanwhile making meatballs consume >2 mins if we considered that your icebox is full of ice that never spoil and there is spider nest nearby not to mention you can make a LOT of them in seconds.

You.. you just ASSUMED my gender fridge as being full of ice?! Bold of you to do that!

*Looks in fridge; is empty, not even 1 morsel; sad life is sad; and stomach's grumbling loudly*

Spoiler

Also call me Icegonador, to mix some well-deserved ice in that assumed gender meatball! :lol:

 

28 minutes ago, Tapirus said:

No, to be honest.

 

Also no, and tbh... am not really honest. I have a slight propensity for pathological lying :( (jk)

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1 hour ago, Alexias said:

All these consume more time for finding ingredients

no they don't, read the list again

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meanwhile making meatballs consume >2 mins if we considered that your icebox is full of ice that never spoil

"let's assume you just magically have everything :DDDDD"

Quote

you can make a LOT of them in seconds.

why would you make lots of them, they last a really short time for a crock pot recipe, i'm not sure why you would stockpile meatballs

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it doesn't matter if we nerf meatballs or any other food items because their is always going to be a "meta" food item.

Nerf meatballs? Meaty Stew

Nerf Meaty Stew? Bacon and eggs

Nerf BaE? Honey Ham 

etc.

 

and if every character got the same downside as Warly, Mushrooms would be near useless, Wurt would be a lot more sucky, Webber's MM eater perk would be useless, etc. 

I understand that the current hunger system in this game is lacking once you know your "go to" meals, but adding Warly's downside to all the characters would not balance well nor help the newer players that are still struggling with food.

I know I already mention it, but I feel that giving each character their own list of foods they like and dislike would be a better alternative in both balancing characters and to break the meatball/honey ham/meaty stew/whatever meta.

Like, nerf Wolfgang by making him dislike pierogi and trail mix to make it harder for him to heal, but give him a small dmg buff if he eats spicy chili. This would make Wolfgang less of a tank since he can't heal as easy, but it gives Wolfgang a reason to make a niche dish. 

Sure, not the best example I can come up with, but you get the idea. 

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1 hour ago, Jessie223 said:

Making meatballs you still have to lose time going back to a crockpot early game, ice isn't readily available in caves and you risky someone eating the 200+ ices you put in an icebox that you got on a public server.

Or you can make 4-7 meatballs at once and use insulated pack/bundling wrap to save it.

1 hour ago, Sweaper said:

you risky someone eating the 200+ ices you put in an icebox that you got on a public server

Teamwork problem here.

1 hour ago, x0VERSUS1y said:

You.. you just ASSUMED my gender fridge as being full of ice?! Bold of you to do that!

I mean ice is one of the most essential items just like logs, it’s not possible to not see someone not having logs in his base.

1 hour ago, Jessie223 said:

no they don't, read the list again

I read it, carrot+berry+cactus need days to regrow

butterfly have its spawn rate

Bee box consume time gathering honeycomb+bees+planting flowers

For beefalo you have to deal with other beefalo not to attack you so you have to lure one of them away that a lot time consuming.

1 hour ago, Jessie223 said:

let's assume you just magically have everything :DDDDD"

I was pointing to how easy to farm meatballs ingredients, ice is the most easiest AND common to farm in large amounts, when the first winter ends most players will probably have <50 ice so it’s safe to assume that ice is always available after the first winter

For meat just kill spider in >1 mins

1 hour ago, Jessie223 said:

why would you make lots of them, they last a really short time for a crock pot recipe, i'm not sure why you would stockpile meatballs

“Short time”

they last for 10 days not to mention that bundling wrap and insulated pack exist.

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7 minutes ago, Ogrecakes said:

I dont understand why people still defend meatballs, the hunger value FAR AND AWAY out scales the ingredients needed to make them.

End of discussion.

Period.

this reasoning never makes any sense, so what if meatballs gives a bit of hunger over its ingredients? the only thing that means is that meatballs is better for hunger than recipes that give less hunger than their ingredients

sure, meatballs made with berries is a 10% increase in hunger while meatballs made with ice is a 58.75% increase in hunger

but if i pick a berry, that's converting 0 hunger to 9.375 hunger, which is literally an ∞% increase in hunger

uh oh! klei please nerf berries?

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Just now, Alexias said:

Or you can make 4-7 meatballs at once and use insulated pack/bundling wrap to save it.

Teamwork problem here.

There is a reason people don't a rush a crock pot when they are still exploring the surface or cave, specially cave/ruins. And that's what you'll be doing early game more often than not.

I'm not wasting my playtime getting ice on a server with 7 or more randoms just to see it disappear. Expecting teamwork to happen on a public server will disappoint you more often than not.

As I said, stopping what you're doing to make meatballs has cons and pros. If I'm low on hunger but have plenty of space in my inventory to get whatever I'm planning to acquire and I'm far from base  I won't stop doing what I'm doing just to cook on a crock pot, I'll just eat whatever I see on my screen.

Insulated pack on a public server, yeah sure. And bundling wrap will only happen if you take an entire season preparing a setup to kill unless you find some decent players or you can solo it.

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35 minutes ago, Alexias said:

Or you can make 4-7 meatballs at once and use insulated pack/bundling wrap to save it.

why would you waste space in those containers for meatballs when there are loads of better perishable items to bundle

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I mean ice is one of the most essential items just like logs

no it isn't

people spend lots of time farming logs because it's used for everything and everything needs lots of it

ice is used for flingomatic (15 ice), moon dial (2 ice), and water balloons (lol), and that's it

(this doesn't mean ice is useless as filler, it's quite the opposite, it's just that you need stupid amounts of it to feed yourself with a mediocre recipe)

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butterfly have its spawn rate

you're not supposed to be farming them, you can just kill one whenever you come across them

it takes just a second to kill a butterfly and you get a full minute of hunger and a good bit of health in return

Quote

For beefalo you have to deal with other beefalo not to attack you so you have to lure one of them away that a lot time consuming.

luring a beefalo away + killing it takes up to a minute at most if you're slow and using a spear

in return for a minute of work, you can feed yourself for 4 days

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I was pointing to how easy to farm meatballs ingredients, ice is the most easiest AND common to farm in large amounts, when the first winter ends most players will probably have <50 ice so it’s safe to assume after that ice is always available.

the ice in the world won't just magically teleport into your inventory

you'd have to explore to find a biome that has them, and spend some pickaxes mining them all

once they run out, you'd have to go around deliberately spawning pengull nests for ice

i choose not to play the game like this, i can think of a million better things i can do in winter instead of just farming ice

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“Short time”

they last for 10 days not to mention that bundling wrap and insulated pack exist.

10 days is short compared to other recipes

again, why would you bundle meatballs lol, it just gives hunger and that's all it does, please learn another recipe for your own sake

 

can someone please tell me why people seem to be so keen on nerfing a pub strat that newbie players do, are we gonna ask klei to nerf pig king bases and farm plots next?

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Meaty stew and Jellybeans are already the best crockpot recipes in the game anyways.

Giving everyone Warly's downside would only make early game annoying as heck and unfun due to the fact that they don't have portable crockpots.

Meatballs is the most overrated recipe in the game btw.

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Set Berry Bushes to less or none

Mini Glaciers to less

Cacti to less or none

Mushrooms to less or none

Butterflies to less or none

Hunts to less or none

 

Enjoy the new level of difficulty. 

 

It's super fun and challenging messing with world settings and they are there exactly to adjust the difficulty of the game after we have hundreds of hours learning it.

You can also make conscious decisions such as not making a pig farm, or bee boxes, or advanced farms.

(Hey, for a while I even made the personal rule that I couldn't open the map until I built a Cartographer's Desk and crafted a Map Scroll. Exploring the Constant and even choosing a base spot without having an overview of the land is a really interesting experience.)

I would still like an official 'difficult mode', sure, but let's all consider the wonderful world of world settings too.

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1 hour ago, Jessie223 said:

this reasoning never makes any sense, so what if meatballs gives a bit of hunger over its ingredients? the only thing that means is that meatballs is better for hunger than recipes that give less hunger than their ingredients

sure, meatballs made with berries is a 10% increase in hunger while meatballs made with ice is a 58.75% increase in hunger

but if i pick a berry, that's converting 0 hunger to 9.375 hunger, which is literally an ∞% increase in hunger

uh oh! klei please nerf berries?

Rattaroullie is a negative for nearly anything you can put into it.

Food should not be a non problem when you abuse a poor scaling values.

If they requires 1 meat, and couldnt use monster meat, the ratio of time, effort, and hunger value would be a lot more fair, but it takes no effort to collect monsted meat and ice, compared to the limited amount of berries and the respawn time, and the manure required to replenish them if dug up.

The values dont line up, theres no insentive to make anything other than meatballs for hunger, which require the least effort.

Why even have other food?

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10 minutes ago, Ogrecakes said:

Rattaroullie is a negative for nearly anything you can put into it.

then don't make it

10 minutes ago, Ogrecakes said:

Food should not be a non problem when you abuse a poor scaling values.

food is a non-problem, crock pot or not

10 minutes ago, Ogrecakes said:

If they requires 1 meat, and couldnt use monster meat, the ratio of time, effort, and hunger value would be a lot more fair, but it takes no effort to collect monsted meat and ice, compared to the limited amount of berries and the respawn time, and the manure required to replenish them if dug up.

yes, but you started with 0 hunger value

when you pick the berry, that 0 hunger turns into 9.375

that's an infinite percent increase, klei! what were they thinking!?

10 minutes ago, Ogrecakes said:

The values dont line up, theres no insentive to make anything other than meatballs for hunger, which require the least effort.

Why even have other food?

if you like playing the game by grinding meatballs, then good for you

other people, like me, prefer doing literally anything else

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11 minutes ago, Ogrecakes said:

Rattaroullie is a negative for nearly anything you can put into it.

Food should not be a non problem when you abuse a poor scaling values.

If they requires 1 meat, and couldnt use monster meat, the ratio of time, effort, and hunger value would be a lot more fair, but it takes no effort to collect monsted meat and ice, compared to the limited amount of berries and the respawn time, and the manure required to replenish them if dug up.

The values dont line up, theres no insentive to make anything other than meatballs for hunger, which require the least effort.

Why even have other food?

You're waaaay overrating meatballs here. Like, sure, they're decent for hunger. But if you try different sources of food you might find out that there is, in fact, better food than meatballs.

The way you (or anything I've seen on this thread) describe the power of meatballs, you talk about having to gather monster meat and having to gather ice and put them together to increase their value. But Don't Starve Together is a very complex game. The difficulty/time required to get a resource does not depend on its hunger value. You have to consider the costs that go into obtaining it, the time required to actually get it, its availability, and lots of stuff. I'll bring up the factors I find most relevant here, but feel free to bring up any factors you might find to be relevant and helpful to your own argument.

Looking at the 1 monster meat 3 ice recipe, I think it's easy to say that it's one of the least efficient ways you could be getting your food. One main factor I think should be considered are the side benefits to this food source. If you kill spiders for monster meat, you're also likely to get silk and spider glands. That's good. You're accomplishing tasks other than getting food, while getting food. But when it comes to 3 ice, I think it's a terrible time and resource investment. You use twigs and flint/gold to make pickaxes, and you spend time going to each group of glaciers (assuming you've already spawned pengulls while doing other stuff) and mining their ice. All just for one resource, ice. And all just to feed yourself. So you spend the majority of your time just getting food, with some silk and glands on the side.

Here's an alternate idea: Meaty stew, with a recipe of 2 meat 1 monster meat 1 filler. You'd kill lots of spiders for monster meat, and get silk and glands in the process. You can then use some of that monster meat to turn a pig into a werepig, assuming you don't want to wait for a full moon. For filler, you've probably already got some carrots from worldgen, since those take very little time to pick if you do pass by them. Only needing 1 per dish means that it'll last you way longer than it would if you use 3 of it for meatballs. This also makes using ice for Meaty Stew more justified, as you're only using 1/3 the amount you'd use for meatballs. So with this process, you get your food and get some silk, glands and pig skin (which tends to be quite valuable, especially early on, for armor and weaponry).

Even these descriptions of the food sources can be considered oversimplifications. I personally believe it's pretty much impossible to argue about efficiency in a game like Don't Starve, mainly due to the degree of variance between different players (killing spiders for example; how do you do it? spear, Hambat, traps, catapults, Webber, Abigail or what?) and the randomness of world generation (spiders might be more available to you if the spider forests have decently packed spiders and are near other important resources). Though I do think that meatballs are being overrated way too much in this thread, as there are other ways you could get your food, in ways that are both faster and more beneficial. Saying they're the only dish you should make is ridiculous, I'd say. Are you really going to deal with that 10-day spoilage time all the time? Bacon & Eggs and Jerky are two of the longest lasting foods you can rely on (with double the spoilage time of meatballs). Jerky has the added benefit of being an all-stats-in-one food, too. Honey Ham, while it doesn't have the 20-day spoilage time, does last longer than meatballs, give more hunger and is made with an easily farmable resource (honey) along with the other ingredients meat-based dishes need, making it a really hunger-efficient alternative, and easily an upgrade to meatballs once you have just a single beebox in a good spot. Its bonus 30 health can also easily clean off any minor battle damage you might've taken recently.

And anyway, even if food in general is broken (which I don't think it is), it's not like it's the only thing DST has. Some may find the game boring if you just had to gather food all the time. You can build, sail, fight, do lots of stuff. And I feel that the best way to go about that is to make it easier in general, with the option to make it harder if so desired (via worldgen settings). It's still a challenge for new players, but more experienced players will find a reasonable amount of time in their hands to accomplish all the other things they'd like to do knowing that food itself isn't a major obstacle in their path anymore.

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13 hours ago, Alexias said:

All these consume more time for finding ingredients and has its limited resources and it regrow too slowly, meanwhile making meatballs consume >2 mins if we considered that your icebox is full of ice that never spoil and there is spider nest nearby not to mention you can make a LOT of them in seconds.

on that logic, what if there s a fridge full of butterflies? Anyway i get your point, but you can't take out the fact that you have to gather ice and meat, as you have to do for everything else. You can't just assume the fridge is full of ice when comparing.

On the topic, as someone stated before, 90% of ppl who play this game don't rush ruins and generally have a hard time surviving. Probably meatballs is a life-saver for most of them. I doubt experienced players use meatballs too much anyway, i don't get the hate, honesty i rarely cook mb. So imo, everyone having the warly food penalty would result in the majority of the playerpool starving to death. Can't imagine that ever going well for klei.

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On 13/11/2019 at 1:28 AM, 1bubbainpa said:

Oh look, this thread again.

Warly’s food memory works because he has a portable crockpot that allows him to make high-quality meals immediately. All other characters in early game rely on a diet of carrots, berries, and meat snacks from mobs they come across. Additionally, warly has a whopping 350 hunger who’s stomach can only be compared to Wolfgang’s.

Once the base gets settled down and farms are going, people are still going to rely on a diet of meatballs and meaty stew because they are still much more efficient than most of the 37.5 hunger foods. 

I agree,but warly’s hunger is only 250

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On 14/11/2019 at 6:52 AM, minespatch said:

I'll stick with my pile of turkey dinners.:wilson_sneaky:

Me too ,but i love bacon and eggs the best

On 14/11/2019 at 6:55 AM, Alexias said:

“Short time”

they last for 10 days not to mention that bundling wrap and insulated pack exist.

Insulated pack SUCKS.Did you forget snow chester?

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