Donko

How is everyone enjoying Wurt? (If you have her)

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To me, her playstyle is unique and fun. She is kind of challenging because she redefines everything you are used to do in the game - pigs, tentacles, swamp biomes, food and your camp's structures/formation with the merms. She is really one of a kind and weave her was the best decision I made.

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sinisterrkid    527
3 hours ago, Steve Raptor said:

2x Lure plants +1 flingo solves all your hound problems for the entire game.

There is no need for tooth traps.

 

Regarding Wurt,

I find her underwhelming, her selling feature, Merms, feel lackluster, incomplete and not standing out compared to other NPCs available in the game for hire. Without functioning Merms, she has nothing that is really going for her.

Her diet Simplicity makes the game less interesting, once you set up your farms and get your durian/pumpkin growing, you don't need anything else, food is grown automatically at your base.

The Lure Plant is what I used to do for a while, but not being able to use it in winter + me not being the best at never taking damage from it made me go back to tooth traps.

Regarding Wurt, even though I could never use bunnies or pigs the way I can use merms, I agree that merm guards are still lackluster and incomplete. For two reasons:

  1. Because they don't auto aggro hounds or giants. At least when you have a king your guards should do that.
  2. And also because they are able to just get lost in the world. When you make one follow you, walk a long distance from their house, and have their loyalty timer run out, they just stand there. They don't come back to their origin and if you can't find them again to guide them all the way back you're gonna come home to an abandoned flort-ification.
Edited by sinisterrkid
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AlternateMew    265
10 hours ago, kiwikenobi said:

Wurt doesn't mind the eggs when they're cooked into a vegetarian dish. Maybe she's just one of those kids that doesn't like certain foods if they still look like themselves, but doesn't mind if they're mixed into something they like.

Kind of like Wigfrid being able to eat vegetables as long as they've been cooked into a dead puppies dish in the crock pot.

I'm guessing that's more of a gameplay thing than a character trait. Probably easier to let Wurt and Wig eat egg and veg indirectly than ruin the recipes for everyone else because of them.

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kiwikenobi    766

...Dead puppies? I never said that. :wilsondisapproving:

Anyway, why couldn't it be both? Makes both the game and the characters more interesting while still making sense.

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Steve Raptor    210
16 hours ago, ShadowDuelist said:

Doesn't that apply to everyone else too? Except Wigfrid of course.

I do agree that without merms she has not that much going for her. But hey, Webber without spiders has nothing going either, and spiders are comparatively much worse in terms of what they can do.

Nope, you can't live on farms and fruits alone with everyone else, they don't provide enough hunger. All other characters hunt for meat for proper meals.

 

Webber and Wurt are designed on the same principle, that is, having a special interaction with an NPC.

But Webber spiders are far more useful compared to merms to what they give you.

For webber, spiders give him proper hound protection, mounds of silk, glands and monster meat all of which are very useful. Its also very easy to farm them with spider civil wars.

They can't fight AOE bosses, but they can fight everything else just fine. Its far easier to recruit and manage an army of spiders and it takes a lot less resources to do so. Its also far easier to build spiders dens than merm houses and you don't need to feed a "spider king" every 4 days.

Its so easy to set up mass spider dens next to Bee queen and Moose goose nests compared to merm houses.

Finally, the biggest fun with spiders is when you explore caves and ruins. the spiders in the ruins are absolutely amazing, spitters, clingers and tank spiders are great for fighting and far more powerful than the normal versions. 

Wurt can't farm her merms efficiently and the only items she get from them are fish and frog legs, both are useless to her and aren't as useful as spider drops

The only edge merms have over spiders is that they can gather resources.

Edited by Steve Raptor
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I don't like to say the obvious or contradict everyone... but every character in the game, except Wigfrid, can have a vegetarian style of gameplay. Dragonpie is amazing by itself - Wurt being vegetarian only buffs the benefits from vegetarian dishes. I know that meatballs are amazing during winter or early in the game and dragon fruits are really hard to find... but once found, anyone can live without meat, just farming. Mandrake Soup, Butter Muffin and Flower Salad are also great for everyone. Stonefruits and Cactus Flesh can still be manageable during Winter and provide good sustain, also you can dry Kelp Fronds to gain even Sanity alongside Hunger. Consider that food stored in the fridge during winter stay fresh during almost all the season - so preparing dragonpies and other similar dishes in the first days, will grant you some safety in terms of food for all the cold white period. And all of this applies to everyone!

 

So, I don't think that Wurt being a vegetarian is unique per se, but the fact that being a vegetarian does improve the vegetarian dishes for her is really her thing. The merm village is a little underwhelming, yes, and takes a lot of time to build, with the tapestry requiring so much - but the swamp style of living, speed increased and the know-how of tentacles, she can live without tooth traps + a lot of loot from the warring species and this is big. So, she is good for solo and for group play, in my opinion - just needs more thinking and preparation, cuz as I said before she redefines the way you think and interact with The Constant.

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ShadowDuelist    4,556
1 hour ago, Steve Raptor said:

But Webber spiders are far more useful compared to merms to what they give you.

I agree that they give more useful items, but overall spiders are cheaper and have far less uses. You can defeat bee queen with just 20 merms, and the spiders (in the current state) can't fight any boss, whether they have AOE or not. Also as soon as the spiderhats start flowing anyone can be a decent webber, just for making the spiders kill eachother. Webber has no specific use by the end of the first year (unless you really love Webber as a character)

1 hour ago, Steve Raptor said:

Its so easy to set up mass spider dens next to Bee queen and Moose goose nests compared to merm houses.

True, but were you able to kill her with spiders? They de-aggro all the time and not even with 40 T3 nests I was able to make it, including spiderhats and ice staves to constantly re-aggro them was also not enough to bring her down. If you could somehow, please let me know how (serious question not rhetorical, I tried several times I wanna learn).

Webber is still due for a rework so he's still behind in that sense anyway, he's going to get better for sure.

1 hour ago, Steve Raptor said:

Wurt can't farm her merms efficiently and the only items she get from them are fish and frog legs, both are useless to her and aren't as useful as spider drops

You can farm them, actually, I have 20 merm houses, I usually befriend one with a seed, and command it to attack a friend. They all start killing eachother until one or 2 weakened ones remain (which I kill myself). As long as it's not winter, they respawn half a day later and you can repeat. The frog legs have little uses for her, mostly limited to eggs to use as filler or to left to rot for gunpowder. But the fish can be given to the king, so you keep getting spots. I can easily get 3-4 spots a day that way. It let's you keep placing more merms, or merms outposts to help you everywhere on the map.
 

15 hours ago, sinisterrkid said:

Regarding Wurt, even though I could never use bunnies or pigs the way I can use merms, I agree that merm guards are still lackluster and incomplete. For two reasons:

  1. Because they don't auto aggro hounds or giants. At least when you have a king your guards should do that.
  2. And also because they are able to just get lost in the world. When you make one follow you, walk a long distance from their house, and have their loyalty timer run out, they just stand there. They don't come back to their origin and if you can't find them again to guide them all the way back you're gonna come home to an abandoned flort-ification.

This sums it up pretty well, there's always room for improvement and these 2 things would be the first things I'd check.

Edited by ShadowDuelist
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AlternateMew    265
10 hours ago, kiwikenobi said:

...Dead puppies? I never said that. :wilsondisapproving:

Anyway, why couldn't it be both? Makes both the game and the characters more interesting while still making sense.

Whoops! I've got a filter on my browser that changes meat to dead puppies. I'm so used to it that I didn't catch the slip-up. Ignore that.

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Steve Raptor    210
4 hours ago, ShadowDuelist said:

I agree that they give more useful items, but overall spiders are cheaper and have far less uses. You can defeat bee queen with just 20 merms, and the spiders (in the current state) can't fight any boss, whether they have AOE or not. Also as soon as the spiderhats start flowing anyone can be a decent webber, just for making the spiders kill eachother. Webber has no specific use by the end of the first year (unless you really love Webber as a character)

True, but were you able to kill her with spiders? They de-aggro all the time and not even with 40 T3 nests I was able to make it, including spiderhats and ice staves to constantly re-aggro them was also not enough to bring her down. If you could somehow, please let me know how (serious question not rhetorical, I tried several times I wanna learn).

Webber is still due for a rework so he's still behind in that sense anyway, he's going to get better for sure.

You can farm them, actually, I have 20 merm houses, I usually befriend one with a seed, and command it to attack a friend. They all start killing eachother until one or 2 weakened ones remain (which I kill myself). As long as it's not winter, they respawn half a day later and you can repeat. The frog legs have little uses for her, mostly limited to eggs to use as filler or to left to rot for gunpowder. But the fish can be given to the king, so you keep getting spots. I can easily get 3-4 spots a day that way. It let's you keep placing more merms, or merms outposts to help you everywhere on the map.
 

This sums it up pretty well, there's always room for improvement and these 2 things would be the first things I'd check.

Yeah I was able to kill her with spiders and some patience.

Also:

Spoiler

 

Tentacle spots aren't that lucrative compared to spider drops, their only use to build more houses... and you also need 5 planks for merm guard houses as well.

 

Edited by Steve Raptor
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Zeklo    17,561
6 hours ago, Steve Raptor said:

Webber and Wurt are designed on the same principle, that is, having a special interaction with an NPC.

But Webber spiders are far more useful compared to merms to what they give you.

For webber, spiders give him proper hound protection, mounds of silk, glands and monster meat all of which are very useful. Its also very easy to farm them with spider civil wars.

...

Wurt can't farm her merms efficiently and the only items she get from them are fish and frog legs, both are useless to her and aren't as useful as spider drops

I absolutely disagree.

All I had to do was set up my merm houses by some spider dens/tentacles. It brings in plenty of silk, glands, and [once I put enough houses down] meat—fish, frog legs, and monster meat. The meat is the "trickiest" to acquire with this method because the merms have to win, otherwise the spiders will eat the drops. So you need enough merms to compete with the spiders—which wasn't even that many.

I'm not even sure what your deal with hound protection is. As soon as a hound bites a merm it's over.

The most I could see you argue is that Webber can start farming the stuff sooner, but that hardly matters once you start doing it better.

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Steve Raptor    210

 

7 minutes ago, Zeklo said:

I absolutely disagree.

All I had to do was set up my merm houses by some spider dens/tentacles. It brings in plenty of silk, glands, and [once I put enough houses down] meat—fish, frog legs, and monster meat. The meat is the "trickiest" to acquire with this method because the merms have to win, otherwise the spiders will eat the drops. So you need enough merms to compete with the spiders—which wasn't even that many.

I'm not even sure what your deal with hound protection is. As soon as a hound bites a merm it's over.

The most I could see you argue is that Webber can start farming the stuff sooner, but that hardly matters once you start doing it better.

Merm don't auto aggro on hounds, the first thing they will bite is you.

So you need to dance around merms in hopes that a hound will bite one.

Webber needs 1 piece of monster meat to farm tones of spider drops and there is no "Tricky" part involved.

You also need lots of resources (wood..) to set up spider farm with merms, I don't see a point to do this when you can go to the nearest cave, deconstruct some vegan houses and make a classic bunny-spider farm.

Edited by Steve Raptor

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Zeklo    17,561
2 minutes ago, Steve Raptor said:

Merm don't auto aggro on hounds, the first thing they will bite is you.

So you need to dance around merms in hopes that a hound will bite one.

Same thing with the age old beginner trick of using beefalo to defend against hounds.

3 minutes ago, Steve Raptor said:

Farming spiders can be done with in the classic way, with bunnies, which are easier to set up than merms.

Define easier.

You don't even need guard merms for the initial setups, and normal merm houses are dirt cheap.

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Steve Raptor    210
5 minutes ago, Zeklo said:

Same thing with the age old beginner trick of using beefalo to defend against hounds.

Define easier.

You don't even need guard merms for the initial setups, and normal merm houses are dirt cheap.

Except I don't need to invest in anything, and definitely not in a specific character to use beefs for hound defense.

You invest so much into a merm army and they can't even defend you against hound waves.

 

1) Unplug the nearest sinkhole

2) Find a nearby bunny village

3) Deconstruct all their houses.

4) Build ~6 bunny houses next to 1 spider nest.

5) Get your drops in day time.

 

Edited by Steve Raptor

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Zeklo    17,561
5 minutes ago, Steve Raptor said:

Except I don't need to invest in anything, and definitely not in a specific character to use beefs for hound defense.

You invest so much into my merm army and they can't defend me against hound waves.

I don't know what to tell you my dude. If you see beefs as a method for hound defense then there should be no issue seeing merms as one.
They both only aggro on the hounds once the hounds bite on of their own. There's no difference there.

Yeah you have to invest in one sure, but they respawn in no time at all. Where-as beefs can get wiped out.

It seems more like you don't like Wurt's playstyle or are so 'veteran' at the game that you find them inferior. In either case that means Wurt isn't for you. I've been enjoying Wurt a bunch—and doing a lot better than I usual do. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Not much more I can really tell ya. 

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Steve Raptor    210
30 minutes ago, Zeklo said:

I don't know what to tell you my dude. If you see beefs as a method for hound defense then there should be no issue seeing merms as one.
They both only aggro on the hounds once the hounds bite on of their own. There's no difference there.

Yeah you have to invest in one sure, but they respawn in no time at all. Where-as beefs can get wiped out.

It seems more like you don't like Wurt's playstyle or are so 'veteran' at the game that you find them inferior. In either case that means Wurt isn't for you. I've been enjoying Wurt a bunch—and doing a lot better than I usual do. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Not much more I can really tell ya. 

I was very hyped for Wurt's release, and there is nothing to do with me being veteran or anything like that.

My bottom line is that her Merms don't stand out at all and are inferior in some cases to other NPCs in the game. They don't provide her with something unique of her own, their faults have been listed in this thread and many others already.

This is why I'm disappointed with her, because her merms are lackluster, everything they can do, something else in the game can also do that and in some cases better (bunnies).

The only good thing about merms are resource gathering and thats it. It feels to me that the reward for investing into a merm village and feeding the merm king isn't worth the effort for what you get at the end.

If you like playing her, then by all means, I'm not here to dictate what you should play and what is "fun" for you.

This is my point of view, I have nothing else to add.

Edited by Steve Raptor
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Sweaper    158
42 minutes ago, Steve Raptor said:

You also need lots of resources (wood..) to set up spider farm with merms, I don't see a point to do this when you can go to the nearest cave, deconstruct some vegan houses and make a classic bunny-spider farm.

Get the wood from bunny to make merm, get more wood with merm, make bunny. Profit

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ShadowDuelist    4,556
51 minutes ago, Zeklo said:

I've been enjoying Wurt a bunch—and doing a lot better than I usual do. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Same here, I'm not sure if I'd make Wurt my main choice of character since I do like playing in pubs as well, but Wurt lets me do all the cool stuff I always hoped to do with Maxwell's shadows, and always felt sort of meh. She's a solid choice I'd go to play with friends, solo, or in long term endless servers for sure.

 

1 hour ago, Steve Raptor said:

Yeah I was able to kill her with spiders and some patience.

Also:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Thats pretty neat, means I gotta practice Webber more. The video has some funky things that show he was using not only cosmetic mods, like that he was able to command the spiders at a distance without a ranged weapon, or that he was able to summon spiders hitting nests and not get any kind of retaliation for it. But they are tiny stuff anyway and I'm sure they can be avoided. Still very informative, I'm gonna try again.

Personally I don't find the flortifications expensive at all, the merms give me at least 30 or 40 boards every time we go chopping and all I do is pick up stuff and make boards. Making them kill eachother gives me all the fish I need for the spots, and the only thing I have to grind for, ironically, is the rope for the spears, which is not that hard in the end anyway. My world is slowly building up into having defense and workers everywhere.

Edited by ShadowDuelist
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Shosuko    668

Well spiders are one of the easiest NPC to set up and they are fun to use, but they can't harvest wood / stone and they eat food drops.  When Webber first came out in DS I played him a lot because he had that minions play style.  I think its a fair comparison to wurt who is obviously about that minion life.

Merms have some problems.  Their drops are kinda meh, its more difficult to farm them since they have more hp, have a kiting ai, and lose focus.  Have to build them on swamp means even more set up.  Fishes aren't super plentiful.

On the plus side - they can harvest wood and stone, don't care about day / night cycle, and have a bit more health so they are more likely to live through 1-2 tree guards and still finish their harvesting job.

I don't use them for fighting much since I've already become accustom to soloing everything, as such I don't mind their combat ai being a bit buggy, nor do I feel any need to rush Merm King.

I agree with @ShadowDuelist that Wurt kinda overlaps Maxwell's play style of being the home-body.  Builds a big base and never needs to leave, minions to do her bidding.  I like her, but I'll probably revert to playing Willow or Wes after I've had my fun with her.

Edited by Shosuko
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AlternateMew    265
On 11/12/2019 at 1:04 PM, minespatch said:

Why...?

Only answer I can give without making a lot of people feel personally attacked is that it's an in-joke among vegans.

On topic, now that I have reliable internet access back, I'm surprisingly enjoying her. Same as real life, I thought it'd be really hard to not have staples like meatballs in Winter, but it's actually very easy. I think I'll keep playing her for a while.

Some fun highlights I've had:

  • I had to afk for a minute and came back with a drumstick in my inventory. I was told that they needed inventory space and knew I wouldn't eat their food. Got a chuckle.
  • I have trouble fighting Rooks, so I was leading the one I play with to fight it. There was a shortcut through caves. Past bunnymen. I completely forgot that they were likely carrying meat. They died.
  • Also bunnymen: I went to gather puffs from their houses and suddenly they hated me. When I figured out why, I was running away yelling that "he's my pet, why do you hate my pet you meanies?!" I had to leave fishy behind...
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