maradyne Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 ...only really seen veggies mentioned here so far so imma bring this up; you can also recruit Merms with Fish. IE, you can feed Merms dead Merms, like you can feed Bunnymen to Bunnymen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canis Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 2 hours ago, maradyne said: ...only really seen veggies mentioned here so far so imma bring this up; you can also recruit Merms with Fish. IE, you can feed Merms dead Merms, like you can feed Bunnymen to Bunnymen. And pigs to pigs. Whats with Klei and lowkey encouraging cannibalism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lammarr Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 8 minutes ago, Canis said: And pigs to pigs. Whats with Klei and lowkey encouraging cannibalism? Merms don't eat the fish you give them tho. They just keep it as a pet like Wurt does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Ringmaster Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 8 hours ago, mistrbushido said: 1. They do not panic, so they will finish the bee queen fight faster since they will continue attacking. Only the guards have this trait now, just so everyone knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowDuelist Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 I've noticed most streamers also tested Wurt for like a day or two and thats it, back to wolfgang/wortox. Did she go that bad? Honestly, I still feel she's pretty good and despite the bunnies being cheaper, in the long run the merms are worth the investment IMO, given all the things they can do, and being always available. For those that feel she is not okay, how would you improve her? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MondayNight Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 14 minutes ago, ShadowDuelist said: I've noticed most streamers also tested Wurt for like a day or two and thats it, back to wolfgang/wortox. Did she go that bad? Honestly, I still feel she's pretty good and despite the bunnies being cheaper, in the long run the merms are worth the investment IMO, given all the things they can do, and being always available. For those that feel she is not okay, how would you improve her? Indeed the Wurt "population" in random servers has gone down to [0;1] in general. Is not necessary the fact she's underwhelming or the like, but a niche character, same as Warly or Wormwood, with a particular play-style. Some people on these forums say mentioned "particular play-style" would be exactly what the game needs to be more ....engaging, yet bulk of player-base tells a different story. And I for one point at Status Quo complacency - and it's natural to occur: almost all original characters have more-or-less the same play-style that people got used to over the years and have specialized in it. Re-adaptation is an obstacle in itself for most people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop Guy Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 To protect the merms, go to the front line to fight against the boss or freeze him tactically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumking7 Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 Does anyone know how long fish will befriend guard merms for, I have so much of it from merm farming with wurt and don't really need anymore tentacle spots, seeds or kelp fronds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maradyne Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 22 minutes ago, Pumkingthegreat said: Does anyone know how long fish will befriend guard merms for, I have so much of it from merm farming with wurt and don't really need anymore tentacle spots, seeds or kelp fronds. It's based on the items hunger value. They use different tags for the tuning, but as far as I can tell, regular Guards are the same as pre-king Merms as far as loyalty goes. But yea. There are multipliers, but hunger value is what gives the base value. I don't see anything special regarding loyalty for Fish. Meaning that giving them Fish should be the same as giving them a low-tier crop. But in my play, that seems to be plenty of time. Â Haven't tested extensively in game; I usually just pile fish on them due to the amount I have anyway lol. Tentacle setups are great for fish farming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Raptor Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 5 hours ago, ShadowDuelist said: I've noticed most streamers also tested Wurt for like a day or two and thats it, back to wolfgang/wortox. Did she go that bad? Honestly, I still feel she's pretty good and despite the bunnies being cheaper, in the long run the merms are worth the investment IMO, given all the things they can do, and being always available. For those that feel she is not okay, how would you improve her? If you take away Merms, what are you left with? nothing pretty much. Her vegetarian trait is actually very powerful and makes the game boring when playing with her. Once you set up some farms and got durian/pumpkin seeds and maybe put a berry busy farm, your all set for infinity. Your food is passively grown in your base. There is no more incentive to hunt Koelfants, or tracks. Hunt monster meats/spiders and generally partake in game activities. It removes a good chunk of the game play. Now, you can't go and have fun with her Merm army and go stomp some beargers/clopsies so all you do with your massive village is chop some more wood and rocks.... At day ~70 I was finding myself most of the time sitting at my camp with no goals other than chop infinite amount of wood to create more merm houses for "role playing" reasons. Her game play simply becomes boring past the 20-30 days mark. If I can sum up my activities during that session: 60% Wood cutting, 35% Farming, 5% other stuff.  I'm not game developer, and my imagination is not as rich as theirs, but there a few things that immediately come up to my mind. Note that not all of them should be implemented together, those are merely bullet points.  - Merms are exclusive mob for Wurt, and her gameplay and features revolve around them. This means that Merm (royal guard) should be drastically better than any other NPC in the game. Similar to why Lucy is the best axe in the game for chopping wood since its Woodie's Forte. - Merm royal guards should have their AI changed to bunny AI, where they retreat at low HP or not at all, they are "royal guards", they give their lives for the king and hes servant. - Merm guards should attack hounds/depth worms on sight. - The double damage that some/all bosses deal to NPCs should be reduced/eliminated for Merm guards. - To compensate, merm guards should no longer be able to wear helmets. - Merm guards are fighters, therefore they should not be able to chop wood or mine rocks. - Regular Merms can be used for both resource gathering and combat, but they will still be susceptible to double damage from bosses. - Normal players can't recruit merm royal guards, only Wurt can. - Merms should be neutral towards chester at all times.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Raptor Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 7 hours ago, x0VERSUS1y said: Indeed the Wurt "population" in random servers has gone down to [0;1] in general. Is not necessary the fact she's underwhelming or the like, but a niche character, same as Warly or Wormwood, with a particular play-style. Some people on these forums say mentioned "particular play-style" would be exactly what the game needs to be more ....engaging, yet bulk of player-base tells a different story. And I for one point at Status Quo complacency - and it's natural to occur: almost all original characters have more-or-less the same play-style that people got used to over the years and have specialized in it. Re-adaptation is an obstacle in itself for most people. Warly is nowhere near the definition of "Niche", especially when solo. Hes seasoning and food make him the most versatile character in the game. Wurt doesn't play that much different than other characters. She got access to NPCs and some buildings, that's it for the "big mechanics". If you take that away, she plays like an ordinary character. Her being vegetarian narrows down her options and makes the game simpler than for example Wigfrid when comparing survival needs. Warly is a better example when players need to adapt a different play style than usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
me real life Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 1 hour ago, Steve Raptor said: At day ~70 I was finding myself most of the time sitting at my camp with no goals other than chop infinite amount of wood to create more merm houses for "role playing" reasons. Her game play simply becomes boring past the 20-30 days mark. If I can sum up my activities during that session: 60% Wood cutting, 35% Farming, 5% other stuff. This doesn't really seem like a problem with Wurt, it seems like a problem with how you play the game. Any character can do almost anything, so why is it Wurt's fault that you spent all your time chopping wood and farming? Most characters don't give you specific unique new tasks for playing them, they just give you better ways to do the same tasks as always, and sometimes downsides to work around. Wurt is the same, she isn't going to completely transform your gameplay or anything, and she can still experience the hundreds of hours of content than any other character can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Raptor Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 10 minutes ago, Sunset Skye said: This doesn't really seem like a problem with Wurt, it seems like a problem with how you play the game. Any character can do almost anything, so why is it Wurt's fault that you spent all your time chopping wood and farming? Most characters don't give you specific unique new tasks for playing them, they just give you better ways to do the same tasks as always, and sometimes downsides to work around. Wurt is the same, she isn't going to completely transform your gameplay or anything, and she can still experience the hundreds of hours of content than any other character can. I expected her Merm companions to be more useful than chopping wood and rocks, so for me, her main selling mechanic didn't deliver. True, I could have done the normal game activities like all other characters but since her main features proved lacking I simply decided to go back and play the other characters whose mechanics are more impactful useful and enjoyable. Features like carrying a dead fish in the inventory or making your weapon not slip in the rain doesn't make it more attractive either... Also, if you want to raise a decent merm village, you are going to be wood cutting quiet a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primalflower Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 30 minutes ago, Steve Raptor said: I expected her Merm companions to be more useful than chopping wood and rocks, so for me, her main selling mechanic didn't deliver. also other stuff in my opinion merms are much more useful than other minions, especially character specific ones (like spiders and webber) and as a result wurt is much more compelling of a "minion" character compared to other examples. I often find myself carrying along a merm guard with me which is something i never would have considered worth it for pigmen or spiders. Her king can be something of a drag to keep up with in food, but you can always simply replace him every few days and not feed him at all to keep his buff going. The wood cutting stuff is a 1-time expense for building up your merm kingdom so i don't really care that much. just get bearger or something if you don't wanna be cutting wood for 40 hours. Features like carrying a dead fish / making your weapon not slip in the rain / not taking any stat loss may not be sellers, but i really enjoy them for more or less the same reason i enjoy quotes. They're neat little details that make wurt just that tiny bit more interesting. Plus, taking swims to make summer just a little bit more bearable is pretty neat of a character-specific feature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowDuelist Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 I've played at least 1000 hours exclusively with Maxwell. During that time, being so squishy taught me to be a lot better at kiting and dodging damage altogether, and I'm thankful for that since that skill translates well to any other character. However after all that time, I got to a point with Maxwell where: Getting killed by any occasional lag spike (I live in Argentina, I can't solve that when playing in international servers) Getting Killed by giving someone directions on the map, Getting a hound waves warnings 3 seconds after I summoned 4 loggers Having shadow workers get killed by flint or destroy my recently planted marble shrubs/trees All of the above eventually became infuriating. I know all the ways around those things, but they still happen want them or not. Also Maxwells most interesting minion, the shadowduelist, is the most useless unit of his and has 100% guaranteed chance to die in any serious fight you take them to, before dealing any significative damage. Spoiler I'm not playing Maxwell again until his rework comes, I got way too tired of his annoying sides. Now Wurt once she gets access to her king and stone fruits, lets me:  Be a lot more forgiving on lag spikes or general silly mistakes, due to her larger HP pool. I play exactly as I played with Maxwell, and I'm rarely dying now. Keep 2-3 merm guards with me 24/7: Stone fruits produce WAY much more avocados than the king and I can eat, so the excess goes to a permanent personal guard (and I even burn some avocados or let them rot, just to tell I really get more of them than I can use). Since the merm guards don't sleep or freak out, they become permanent for just 4-5 avocados every 2 days each. The guys help me gather all resources like Maxwell's minions, except better because I tell them what to do and when to do it, and they don't destroy my base. I also don't have to switch them by tasks. My personal duo of Merm guard helpers fight only what I tell them to with the boomerang, so they don't suicide to tentacles or treeguards. They have a decent HP pool, and during hound waves or depth worm waves, they take away aggro from me so I can kill the wave easily. Merm helpers also protect me against mostly everything except shadows. In team games I hunt like no other with them too, so I bring food for the others. Merms are just helpers, they are not meant to be used to just fight themselves while you stare. Comparatively, Maxwell's Shadowduelists don't work at all, not even if you constantly take aggro, the faintest breeze will get them killed. During Boss fights I just go and pick a lot more merms which gives me a huge DPS, and since they follow me I can build some houses in just one place, and take them anywhere on the shard. If I want to feel powerful I just go and befriend the whole gang to destroy spider queens or clean the ruins in the caves shard. I don't need to build them near the place I'm using them like bunnies, making them slightly more versatile. I can improve the merms with helmets if the need arises, and I'm getting rich enough. I'm actually working on that right now, trying to produce a lot of trinkets and stones before switching to Wig briefly. I'm also working towards having a lot of bee boxes so I can control my sanity better, and make Honey poultices (having just stone fruit as food leaves me without healing food or sanity restoring food) TL; DR: Wurt finally gave me all I ever wanted Maxwell to do well (and he didn't). The game is all about building stuff and killing bosses, and I don't see anything wrong in her since she can do those two things better than most characters, if played right. The only changes I'd give Wurt right now is a better loyalty time/food given ratio, to make it less grindy, and let the merms teleport back to their respective houses after at least a day of not being friends with anyone has gone by. This is because if they lose friendship away of their houses, their AI is too dumb to find the right path back, they get stuck across the world and you have to go looking for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahoood Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 2 hours ago, ShadowDuelist said:  so I can control my sanity better, and or sanity restoring food  Dried kelp. i enjoyed reading your play-style with wurt, keep us updated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowDuelist Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 24 minutes ago, Mahoood said: Dried kelp. i enjoyed reading your play-style with wurt, keep us updated Thats a really good idea actually, I will implement it since i have a bunch of kelp growing near base now ,TY! I'll try to keep posting the interesting stuff I find without making them wall of texts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArubaroBeefalo Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 On 2/11/2019 at 11:29 AM, landromat said: The only good synergy i can think of. Reeds + books + spots + veggies. They're good together + wurt can read books for sanity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landromat Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 6 hours ago, thetricker1 said: + wurt can read books for sanity yes, i mentioned books Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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