I think AI in DST need a remwork

[Philip.]

The AI that is now in play is sufficient, but very primitive and very easy to play. I think if some mobs in DST get AI refresh, the game will be harder to play, but not in that boring style. It might not be a big change, but at least something would be useful. Certainly, it would be useful if mobs recognized obstacles and avoided them or something like that. I know it's hard to do but it's just my idea for some future updates.

 

picture from Klei frorums: Year of the Gobbler

80% Google translation

[Maxposting]

remwork

 

[Canis]

Time to be a sellout!

https://discord.gg/UF7FKpn

Here's a link to the "Uncompromising Mode" mod collab project, where our goal is to make the game harder but more rewarding. Think of it as an expert mode. I suggest posting your idea(s) here in more detail and it could most likely make it into the mod.

[Ezaroth]

Depends on what 'remwork' means.

[Well-met]

they just need a way to detect they're stuck. Such as being in a movable state without actually closing in any distance.

[Philip.]

4 hours ago, Ezaroth said:

Depends on what 'remwork' means.

remwork=refresh

6 hours ago, Canis said:

Time to be a sellout!

https://discord.gg/UF7FKpn

Here's a link to the "Uncompromising Mode" mod collab project, where our goal is to make the game harder but more rewarding. Think of it as an expert mode. I suggest posting your idea(s) here in more detail and it could most likely make it into the mod.

The mod is very interesting but I don't use mods that add something to the world or change it. But thanks.I would like to write my idea in more detail but since English is not my native tongue and I help with google translator, it would be very hard for me to formulate it so that it makes sense. In future maybe

3 hours ago, Well-met said:

they just need a way to detect they're stuck. Such as being in a movable state without actually closing in any distance.

Yes, one of the options. I was also thinking about this possibility. However, I think that many people would not like this option, because most farms are a stone cage, where there is fro example some favorite food, where the crowd doesn't really know if it's going or not moving.

7 hours ago, __IvoCZE__ said:

remwork

 

Now I change remwork to refresh

[fimmatek]

42 minutes ago, Fi7iP said:

Yes, one of the options. I was also thinking about this possibility. However, I think that many people would not like this option, because most farms are a stone cage, where there is fro example some favorite food, where the crowd doesn't really know if it's going or not moving.

I don't really understand, if there were an AI change that would prevent us abusing mobs' stupid behaviour (I guess you're suggesting that, aren't you?), wouldn't most people complain about it anyways?

45 minutes ago, Fi7iP said:

Now I change remwork to refresh

The reason why others nitpick about it is that you misspelled "rework" (no need for an "m").

Spoiler

On the other hand, AI in DST does need a lot of ramwork...  

 

[Philip.]

20 minutes ago, fimmatek said:

I don't really understand, if there were an AI change that would prevent us abusing mobs' stupid behaviour (I guess you're suggesting that, aren't you?), wouldn't most people complain about it anyways?

The reason why others nitpick about it is that you misspelled "rework" (no need for an "m").

  Reveal hidden contents

On the other hand, AI in DST does need a lot of ramwork...  

 

I think people could complain that they can no longer get so easy food and that it can be just boringly tedious to get food. This would make the food a long-term problem and people couldn't just go on a trip or underground and build a mega base. But I think that in DST can survive comfortably without farms and tons of meat in the fridge that usually rot.

I agree that AI in DST needs reworking

[Well-met]

Of course people would cry their easy exploits are being taken away. Just look at the Fuelweaver's recent bone edge fix.

That doesn't matter the slightest. Ignore the wailing and bathe in better gameplay.

[Lammarr]

8 minutes ago, Fi7iP said:

I think people could complain that they can no longer get so easy food and that it can be just boringly tedious to get food. This would make the food a long-term problem and people couldn't just go on a trip or underground and build a mega base. But I think that in DST can survive comfortably without farms and tons of meat in the fridge that usually rot.

I agree that AI in DST needs reworking

You can still make a mega-base underground if you use the reanimated skeleton to kill shadow splumonkeys for food tho....

Also if a A.I refresh really happened and bunnymen/pig wars were ''fixed'',Bee boxes,Stone fruit bushes and the boring berry bushes would probably be the best source of food.

I don't understand why someone would like food to be a real problem,i'm pretty sure it never was from the start and gathering food is pretty boring imo.(well at least in this game with the ruins and raid bosses and stuff,you know)

[Philip.]

I don't want food to be a bigger problem I just said that if it were as Well-mett said about the idea of AI improvement, it would make food a bigger problem and people would complain.

[Lammarr]

Oooh i misunderstood then,sorry about that and yeah the A.I exploits with walls are pretty dumb.

I prefer high risk,high reward or something like that.

[Alienm]

Good idea, I was never a big fan of exploits,

it removes the challenge from a game, and challenge is a big part of what makes games fun.

 

And besides, if someone prefers to have more of whichever resource they wanted to exploit - they can just spawn more of it through the world generation settings.

[Philip.]

4 minutes ago, AlienMagi said:

Good idea, I was never a big fan of exploits,

it removes the challenge from a game, and challenge is a big part of what makes games fun.

 

And besides, if someone prefers to have more food in their world they can just generate more vegetables in the world creation settings.

This is exactly what I wanted to say, it will give me that games with primitive AI lose the challenge. The farms should be eliminated, to make the game bit more challenging, but I certainly don't want food to be a major problem.

[MondayNight]

Only reason for walls atm, beside the aesthetic aspect, is in baiting and to separate bunnymen hazards from meat-carrying players and/or pigmen from monster characters. Take that away and all you have are glorified "useless" decorations - need I remind you about all those "useless items" threads again?! Also it doesn't solves much anyway in "making game hard from food-collecting pov", just pick berries after sunset and make pig/bunny farms in caves, with houses walled tightly individually to keep them mobs permanently outside, separated for easy mushing. Current AI is also a jab/tongue-in-cheek for that "oh poor dumb animals, hehe", building on the DS dark humor.

[Szczuku]

I believe it is important for Klei to acknowledge the issue with mobs AI and fances/gates.

For example let's talk about the latest patch to the game. It added a new helm- Cookie Cutter Helm. Pretty cool but what's the point of it since you can amass pig skin before the 1st winter. Changing the way Pigman's Ai works with fences and what not could make farming pig skin tougher and therefore players would maybe start to use other armor pieces.

[Russian_Philin]

2 hours ago, Szczuku said:

Changing the way Pigman's Ai works with fences and what not could make farming pig skin tougher and therefore players would maybe start to use other armor pieces.

But this is not a fact

[MondayNight]

I for one always camp at deep Ruins and ofc have my rustic pig village that I farm with Monster Meat from Labyrinth "spoders" and regular ones mushed via Bunnymen. Both cases don't require baiting as some fireflies get pigs outside even in total darkness during day (not to mention I have a Scaled Furnace plus firepit close, also a special area for long-running Stars). And I use mostly Football Helmets (aside from some boss-battles' Thule gear). Thus I assure you that ain't hard at all, no impairing, no nothing for advanced players. Your proposed "change AI of mobs to invalidate baiting" will only affect those 2-3 chests-of-Pig Skins some players fancy for whatever hoarding reason, and some freshly medium players now going into said farms. All-in-all pretty much nothing in the line of "make game great and hard again" (that frankly was never like so, except when you first got into DS and didn't knew stuff - the way you can dispose of bosses is laughably easy in relation to the buffed up DST variants, also those stackable armors, heh).

Oh the nostalgia and "remembering only good things of past days" ..and filtering out the bad

PS: also advanced players usually don't even require much armor to begin with..

[Scrimbles]

I hate how treeguards immediately forget their target after getting hit by something.

Lead a Treeguard thats chasing you to a pig, and congratulations you've got free bacon and and a neutral treeguard.

[MondayNight]

DS always offered you the option to flee. Or use other mobs to do your biding. It's useful, fun, makes you proud of yourself and whatnot for "outsmarting the poor dumb lesser souls", offers alternatives etc. Imagine if only available strategy would be kite (and/or face-tank "like a noob B0$$"), how poor the game would feel in lack of all those other interactions between mobs.

Then picture this as well: you are the mighty mad ent pissed by that fleshbag cutting your kin down. You rise up intending to "plant" hard 2 feet under that fleshbag, and start slowly closing the gap between marvelous your and your only goal in life. Then BOOM: out of nowhere a pig punches you. Another damn fleshbag, one with guts this time! And another punch, them porkybags pop like caps after generous rains, aren't they?! What do you do in the face of this gutsy affront? Chase first Courage-the-cowardly-bag, and their flamboyant nerve running yellow infront of them or deal with this new direct menace?

Also don't forget: if Treeguards go dead-serious into intending to first pummel the life out of you, a group of pigs will make short work of them in no time. And if you want said ents to first mush pigs, then you (keep secondary aggro), there's always mentioned running option - this applying to newbies and noobs I suppose, no medium-to-experienced self-respecting player will view treeguards as anything else beside 6 freshly flunked Living Longs, a Godsend - and le Monster Meat (to give raw to Wes ofc).

 

PS: why people don't see the hilarity of plantlad-gets-smacked-forgets-purpose-haha - is a damn walkin' tree, lol, is suppose to be "dumb as bricks", that's the gag right there; what's happening with humor these days?!

[me real life]

16 hours ago, Fi7iP said:

picture from Klei frorums: Year of the Gobbler

It feels silly to use this as an example image for AI needing a rework, though. This is, in my opinion, a really neat use of the gobbler AI which is only useful in one event that comes around once every 12 years. The gobblers are attracted to the gobbler shrine, so they always walk to the left. Whenever you put a berry down, though, they prioritize it, and will go eat it, drop a lucky pouch and then walk back towards the shrine. That's really cool, but it's only useful during the Year of the Gobbler event, so It's silly to use this as an image for this thread.

[Philip.]

16 hours ago, x0VERSUS1y said:

Only reason for walls atm, beside the aesthetic aspect, is in baiting and to separate bunnymen hazards from meat-carrying players and/or pigmen from monster characters. Take that away and all you have are glorified "useless" decorations - need I remind you about all those "useless items" threads again?! Also it doesn't solves much anyway in "making game hard from food-collecting pov", just pick berries after sunset and make pig/bunny farms in caves, with houses walled tightly individually to keep them mobs permanently outside, separated for easy mushing. Current AI is also a jab/tongue-in-cheek for that "oh poor dumb animals, hehe", building on the DS dark humor.

On the one hand it is true,but again I think there should be some intelligent creatures. But not everyone. I want AI refresh not just to be more intelligent but I also want to add some features of mob to make the game look more vivid. For example, some penguins could leave the nest in the winter where they would fish, you could watch them (or hunt too) as they jump out of the water. Furthermore, it would be interesting if jumping creatures such as spider warier could jump fences or jump on the ship.

9 hours ago, Sunset Skye said:

It feels silly to use this as an example image for AI needing a rework, though. This is, in my opinion, a really neat use of the gobbler AI which is only useful in one event that comes around once every 12 years. The gobblers are attracted to the gobbler shrine, so they always walk to the left. Whenever you put a berry down, though, they prioritize it, and will go eat it, drop a lucky pouch and then walk back towards the shrine. That's really cool, but it's only useful during the Year of the Gobbler event, so It's silly to use this as an image for this thread.

The picture is not very important it was just some picture I found. What matters is the text and thought that is in this thread. How do you find a picture that better describes my idea you can send it

10 hours ago, Ogrecakes said:

I hate how treeguards immediately forget their target after getting hit by something.

Lead a Treeguard thats chasing you to a pig, and congratulations you've got free bacon and and a neutral treeguard.

I think it's good because it allows people without the equipment to flee through almost certain death, and it's quite fun.

[Lammarr]

3 hours ago, Fi7iP said:

I think it's good because it allows people without the equipment to flee through almost certain death, and it's quite fun.

You just forgot the fact that you just murdered that sad thing's family.

Also they're pretty slow,at least make them remember you're a hostile like the Pig guards from Hamlet

[Scrimbles]

4 hours ago, Fi7iP said:

I think it's good because it allows people without the equipment to flee through almost certain death, and it's quite fun.

"An uncompromising wilderness survival game"

 

Nothing like easily being able to avoid one of the easiest enemies in the game simply by letting something else attack it first.

[Illumina]

On 10/12/2019 at 6:43 PM, x0VERSUS1y said:

DS always offered you the option to flee. Or use other mobs to do your biding. It's useful, fun, makes you proud of yourself and whatnot for "outsmarting the poor dumb lesser souls", offers alternatives etc. Imagine if only available strategy would be kite (and/or face-tank "like a noob B0$$"), how poor the game would feel in lack of all those other interactions between mobs.

Then picture this as well: you are the mighty mad ent pissed by that fleshbag cutting your kin down. You rise up intending to "plant" hard 2 feet under that fleshbag, and start slowly closing the gap between marvelous your and your only goal in life. Then BOOM: out of nowhere a pig punches you. Another damn fleshbag, one with guts this time! And another punch, them porkybags pop like caps after generous rains, aren't they?! What do you do in the face of this gutsy affront? Chase first Courage-the-cowardly-bag, and their flamboyant nerve running yellow infront of them or deal with this new direct menace?

Also don't forget: if Treeguards go dead-serious into intending to first pummel the life out of you, a group of pigs will make short work of them in no time. And if you want said ents to first mush pigs, then you (keep secondary aggro), there's always mentioned running option - this applying to newbies and noobs I suppose, no medium-to-experienced self-respecting player will view treeguards as anything else beside 6 freshly flunked Living Longs, a Godsend - and le Monster Meat (to give raw to Wes ofc).

 

PS: why people don't see the hilarity of plantlad-gets-smacked-forgets-purpose-haha - is a damn walkin' tree, lol, is suppose to be "dumb as bricks", that's the gag right there; what's happening with humor these days?!

The game is meant to be hard and not the "lmaaaaaaaao dumb dumb animal, this is so easy!" but actually be a "Holy crap, WHY YOU DON'T LET ME ALONE!?, OH CRAP I DIED" because as the title says "uncompromising survival game" not "animals dumb dumb easy food survival game", fleeing is a option, but one that has far LESS reward than fighthing back. Using mobs to do your bidings, is cool, but they ruin the challenge of you fighthing for food in the wild, killing some mobs in your day to day farm is borin' and repetitive, i like more the sensation of "I gotta hunt, but i hope i don't get a Varg or a Ewecus!", because is more satisfactory to feel the challenge, that's why i hate using the primitive AI for exploiting it for food, it ruins the hard feeling of the game, Klei has to improve the AI, so players have to be MORE intelligent in how to hunt their food, this game is supossed to be uncompromising, not a day in the supermarket.