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Slane4020

Big Prob How do i cool this down?

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Slane4020    0

Looks like I did not solve a problem sooner now im pretty much stuck. I have to cool this 500F petro down somehow and i can figure a way to do it? I tried running radiant pipe with polluted water and the pipes crashed and made a bunch of dirt lol! WHAT DO I DO?! This thing was to cool down SPOM for a temp time until i built or figure something else out for a coolant pool or system etc? Now with this thing kinda just there and when i mess with this thing it hurts my dupes haha wew.

Any Suggestions would be really helpful thanks!

 

 

problem.jpg

ohno.jpg

bigprob.jpg

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Lancar    85

Well. Since it's petrol in the tank you could cool it down with the same thing. more petrol (at a lower temp).
Alternatively, and this is a bit of a re-design, you could build a vacuum chamber next to it, slap a Steam Turbine setup on that and then breach the wall between to turn the heat into power.

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Melodist    10

-Information To Consider-

Thermo Aquatuner doesn't delete heat, only transfer it to its occupied tiles.

Thus we are only able to lower temperature as much as we can delete heat via other methods. (Otherwise, inevitable destruction will occur, #logic #science)

In addition, to generate the electrical power 1200w/s for the Thermo Aquatuner, unless you're utilizing Steam Turbine or Solar Panel, you're generating additional heat to your colony via generating 1200 w/s.

Thus, you have a negative yield of heat energy. (Which will inevitably cause mayhem, #whoops #growthmindset)

-Suggestions-

As another user mentioned, this seems to be the most intuitive solution for a closed system.

2 minutes ago, Lancar said:

... a bit of a re-design, you could build a vacuum chamber next to it, slap a Steam Turbine setup on that and then breach the wall between to turn the heat into power.

In addition, main heat deletion chamber/area. There are many types, will list some in order of difficulty to start.

1. Anti Entropy Thermo-Nullifier, which gives -80 kDTU/s (heat value) at resource cost of 10g/s Hydrogen. You're cooling down Petroleum in ThermoAqua, which transfer 246.4 kDTU/s from the Petroleum onto the ThermoAqua for comparison.

2. Wheezewort in Hydrogen: Example would be a 2x height by 15x length, 9x of those floor tiles being planted natural Wheezewort via Pip Critter Planting.

3. Steam Turbine Setup, volcano taming, all that good stuff, google those terms for blueprints.

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Corpserule    3

So, a thing that may have been overlooked, but i realised in my run. is.

If something gets that hot, you might want to just void it to space. (insulated pipes to minimise damage)

Cheapest method, but you lose the petroleum

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BLACKBERREST3    233
Posted (edited)

If you really want to save it. If you have access to the pipe inputs, run 1kg through them with the liquid valve. This should prevent them from bursting while you siphon the heat to another cooling source or heat deleter.

Usually future planning prevents this issue. Live and learn.

Edited by BLACKBERREST3

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tzionut    252
Posted (edited)

The easiest way is to pump and convert the petroleum into plastic....The more difficult is some temp shift plate and a steam turbine above. Put some water over the petroleum and cool the petroleum till 150 degree then cool it whit another aquatuner or pump it for rocket fuel, or petrol generator, or plastic... you decide. 

For the future search on the forum. There area lots and lots of steam turbines whit aquatuners setups. Even in ONIversty post i see lots of them (and lots off bugs and exploits). You decide what you use. 

Post edit: don't bother whit wheeze worth or AETN (anti entropy thermo nulifier). The heat deleted is not enough for even one aquatuner. 

Edited by tzionut
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nakomaru    1,416
20 minutes ago, tzionut said:

The easiest way is to pump and convert the petroleum into plastic....

I think you mean 500 degree naphtha, which will only be harder to cool down.

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tzionut    252
Quote

I think you mean 500 degree naphtha, which will only be harder to cool down.

Not if you go whit radiant pipe through ice biome... and cool it....

Mea colpa. I tend to forget about the temperature changes.

 
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Slane4020    0

Thanks for all the tips and tricks! I basically put metal tiles on the top and enclosed the thing putting a turbine on top. Vacumed then dropped some water and bam. Had lots of free power and now its below the threshold temp. Its 157F now here is the thing. How do i even cool that further down? I saw how you guys were saying use lower amount in the pipes with a valve so they would not burst and cool it down? This should work right? This was a design i used for a SPOM but the automation broke down. It used to be polluted water in there and i put that and it used to be a gold thermo and i made it steel lol. I gotta figure a way out to make a cooling pool with a turbine on it or something. Found many other builds for a SPOM but i might of used a outdated one?

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Steve8    14
Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Slane4020 said:

Vacumed then dropped some water and bam. 

I recently learned of a better trick to fill the steam chamber: before you put in the water, make a tiny layer with another liquid at the bottom like polluted water, salt water or oil. And then regular water on top. You may need to temporarily remove some tiles on top to clear air pockets, but this will fill all the tiles with liquid and push the air out at the top. When you turn it on, the water based stuff will evaporate and leave back some dirt or salt. The oil will stay and I think may help some with evening out the spread of the heat. Though in high temperature applications like directly putting the heat of the metal refinery into the steam room it will cook the oil into petroleum.

The dirt/salt can look a bit weird, but you need to have a huge hassle with a pump

Quote

used to be a gold thermo 

A gold aquatuner can sort of work in some applications. You need to put in a thermo sensor to shut it off a lot so it doesn't overheat. So it won't run a lot because the overheat treshold isn't very high. It can be enough for a coolant loop though to keep the base cool or cool down some machines that won't put out a crazy amount of heat. A simple cooling loop doesn't need crazy temperature differences to work. But for most applications it won't do it.

Edited by Steve8
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KittenIsAGeek    1,199

Crude/Petrol really has poor characteristics for cooling.  Yes, it has a large active temperature range, but it doesn't have a large heat capacity or conductivity.  It does ok, but you'll find much better success by dumping your heat into water.

Your basic idea can work, it just needs a bit of help.  Here's some things to think about:

  1. Aquatuners move heat, they don't remove it.  You said you put metal tiles on top and put a steam turbine up there.  Excellent.  A steam turbine will convert heat into electric power.  I see you have wheezewarts in your build and they DO remove heat, just not a lot of it.
  2. Some fluids can remove heat by boiling/condensing.  Right now I think the only one that still works in a normal temperature range is Ethanol.  You can search for "the Crying Crab" for details.
  3. A closed-loop with a turbine can remove a LOT of heat.  And I mean A LOT.  Here's a closed-room setup I use to cool a pool of water.  This pool gets filled by a pair of cool steam geysers, so when they're both in an active cycle it can get pretty hot. 
    Spoiler

    image.thumb.png.9a3fd91852ca2be4193ca6f39eea6ef4.png

    The thermo sensor above the aquatuner turns the turbine on at 193c.  There's some logic behind the turbine to give hystresis so it isn't constantly fluctuating.   This was built a bit at a time, so while the tepedizer is no longer used, it hasn't been removed yet.

    image.thumb.png.871b7283a47238e20d697b4828b160c4.png

    This isn't very clean -- it was revised a few times, so there's some extra piping that shouldn't be there.  The important part is the valve in the pool.  Its on (open) until the water in the pipes drops below 14c.  This prevents the aquatuner from breaking pipes.  When the valve is closed, the water circulates through the pool and into a liquid reservoir, allowing bypass to be shorter than the aquatuner loop without causing the water to stop flowing.  

    Finally, the turbine condenses steam into water, which gets fed back into the closed room where it has to be heated up to steam again.  This will remove very large amounts of heat, so even if the aquatuner is running continually, the turbine will still only run intermittently. 

       

  4.  By sticking an aquatuner in a very large pool of water, you can run it for a very long time before you need to be concerned about what to do with the heat.  Especially if this pool is fed by melting ice biomes.  I use this particular technique early in the game when I need to cool something, but I don't have steel or plastics yet.

As for building SPOMs, you mention that you "might have used an outdated one."  The underlying concept of a SPOM is to create oxygen using the hydrogen 'waste' as a power source to create more oxygen.  There are LOTS of these builds out there, and they're more or less the same in function: Oxygen and hydrogen are produced, hydrogen rises, a pressure sensor controls when to pump out the hydrogen.  Some SPOM builds also include cooling the oxygen, and these are points where you might run into issues if you don't understand how cooling works.  Some of the older SPOM builds rely on broken mechanics that have since been fixed.

Looking more closely at your particular setup, it appears that you were using a closed-loop passive pipe running past wheezewarts to remove heat from the aquatuner's chamber. This can work, but there are some problems which you have become familiar with: If the cooling pool gets too hot, the water in your pipes phase changes and breaks the pipe.  An aquatuner can move a lot of heat very quickly, so your thermo sensor and logic need to be set to control the aquatuner such that it doesn't exceed the useful temperature of your coolant.  In this case, we're talking about the coolant in the pipes going past the wheezewarts.  If that thermo sensor controlls the aquatuner, then I would have set the maximum temperature to about 90c.

A final note about wheezewarts: You'll get the absolute best cooling out of them in 2kg of hydrogen.  Steam would technically work better, but its too hot for the wheezewarts, so we have to use hydrogen instead.

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Steve8    14
Posted (edited)

On a more basic level you just need something like this:

Aquatuner.thumb.jpg.c1588728505fffb7cc568d7925bf80a2.jpg

The coolant has a temperature sensor connected to the aquatuner. The aquatuner can work if the coolant is above 0°C (-3 can work too, but that's pushing things). If it's shut off the coolant instead moves around it through the bridge. That's because the input of the machine is prioritized otherwise.

There are a couple ways to set these up though and I don't quite understand if some are better in certain situations than others. For example the one above runs the cooling loop directly through the aquatuner. There is no intermediate cold chamber.  If you just have one loop that's probably better.

But in my example you can attach several loops to cool down entire rooms or even the whole base (the picture shows two). You could run oxygen lines through the cold chamber in addition to the liquid ones. You can also have the outside exposed to some area you want to cool with diamond or metal tiles.

Also, after some small issues I've encountered I'd probably have two tiles of insulation between the cold and hot chambers. One tiles works, but the aquatuner does heat up the insulation. Especially if there are tempshift plates directly touching it. The latter is something I definitely won't do again. Those are very minor things though and won't prevent it from working.

You don't need metal tiles between the steam chamber the turbine above. In fact the turbine stops working if it overheats (so you can make it out of lead!). You may want to cool it in fact. Just running a cooling loop with a few pips of radiant piping by it is enough.

 

Another thing I've noticed: You have a heavy watt wire to supply your aquatuner. That breaks the insulation and leaks heat through it. You can clearly see that in your picture. Instead supply everything with conductive wire from a transformer

Edited by Steve8
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Slane4020    0

Welp I managed it and got it down to reasonable levels. Now with all that has been said it has me running with many ideas. I think it be best i will just have a steam turbine above the metal tiles as the thermo cools down the needed area. It should keep it within reasonable temps that it wont break im hoping? It survived 500 as long as it stays below that. I had both thermo pipe sensor and thermo sensor. Somehow the automation got wonky i guess? It was supposed to stop using the aquatuner when too hot. The pipe one would cause it to shut off also if it reached the needed temps. I do have a not gate connected to a OR one for a battery. So if its too low the bat it sends a signal that way it knows it has enough juice to run the tuner. I think i messed up that threshold. 

image.thumb.png.ec297d64e2255216d93a8b485051dc3a.png

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Steve8    14
Posted (edited)

The aquatuner doesn't cool down the area. It's the opposite. It takes the heat from the liquid run through it and applies it to itself. That heat then gets dumped into the area around it. That's good. You want the steam chamber to be hot so it can evaporate the water to steam. This happens at 100°. Then you need another 25° for the turbine above to kick in. It sucks up the hot steam and dumps it back cooler as water. So you'd want to insulate the steam chamber. No metal tiles. No heavy watt joint plates. This is standard. What you do with the cooled liquid allows some more creativity.

I don't quite understand why yours stays so "cool". Probably because your cooling loop actually cools the aquatuner. All the heat put up by the tuner gets immediately absorbed by the pipes. Or something like that. But that's not how things are supposed to work.

Edited by Steve8

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Slane4020    0
2 hours ago, Steve8 said:

The aquatuner doesn't cool down the area. It's the opposite. It takes the heat from the liquid run through it and applies it to itself. That heat then gets dumped into the area around it. That's good. You want the steam chamber to be hot so it can evaporate the water to steam. This happens at 100°. Then you need another 25° for the turbine above to kick in. It sucks up the hot steam and dumps it back cooler as water. So you'd want to insulate the steam chamber. No metal tiles. No heavy watt joint plates. This is standard. What you do with the cooled liquid allows some more creativity.

I don't quite understand why yours stays so "cool". Probably because your cooling loop actually cools the aquatuner. All the heat put up by the tuner gets immediately absorbed by the pipes. Or something like that. But that's not how things are supposed to work.

This is after I cleared out the heat that was in the liquid. I ran radian pipes with cool polluted water in there. The tuner was offline during this whole time. What I am trying to do now it use it again to run a cool loop while that area on the screenshot will heat up again. I need to transfer heat somehow or i will get back to the same prob. So i figured have those metal titles on top and the aqua tuner will heat up the liquid and just have a chamber that will vaporize water to steam. I will put a steam turbine on top and hoping that will keep the block/pool with the tuner in a reasonable temp not breaking things and going up and up in temps. If this makes any sense?

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bobucles    337

Steve8 is right. Until something is actually deleting heat, (or multiplying cold) nothing is being cooled by your system. Pumping water in circles will average out the temperature of the entire system. That's great for a few cycles, until the average temperature keeps climbing up until it is too hot for everything.

The aquatuner is supposed to get hot. If the cold water from the output is being used to cool down the aquatuner, nothing happens. You just wasted 1200W.

Shop around for steam aquatuner setups. There's piles of guides and youtube videos that will cover the fundamentals of using an aquatuner.

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Steve8    14
Posted (edited)

You don't want a thermal connection between the steam chamber and the turbine. The turbine has steam intakes that reach through the ceiling. That's what I'm getting at the whole time. It sucks in the steam through those intakes and returns it as water. But its  overheats at 100°C (the temperature it has itself. Not the steam). That's when it shuts down with an error. Unlike other machines it doesn't take damage. As said, sometimes you need to cool down the turbine to prevent that. That way the turbine stays cool, but it can suck in hot steam from below.

Just place a turbine somewhere on a floor and the intakes appear. It's maybe a bit confusing graphics-wise.

Edited by Steve8

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KittenIsAGeek    1,199
8 hours ago, Slane4020 said:

Welp I managed it and got it down to reasonable levels. Now with all that has been said it has me running with many ideas. I think it be best i will just have a steam turbine above the metal tiles as the thermo cools down the needed area. It should keep it within reasonable temps that it wont break im hoping? 

Correct.  A steam turbine will do an excellent job at keeping the tuner cool.  The turbine operates best around 180c to 200c, which is plenty cool enough for your steel aquatuner.

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Slane4020    0
Posted (edited)

Okay i know its a mess.You see on the right is the oxygen system and it works very well. As you can see the tab im not getting warning about lack of oxygen. I had to change the vents because ears were popping from oxygen haha whoops. Anyway the tuner is supposed to cool everything on the right. You can see the metal and temp plates. It works now this is the general idea i was thinking not to run into this problem again. I know the turbine is off by a few but its just example im talking about. I will have something cooling the steam engine also too but those pipes are set and used for other things and kinda straining them as it is already.

image.thumb.png.d0a2c1f54d90055775ed1898a9f0deac.pngimage.thumb.png.ccec0aaa0595cb3703b1d63140a1a8ec.png

Edited by Slane4020

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Steve8    14
Posted (edited)

You'll need to rip out much of that. The gas pipes in the aquatuner chamber. The metal tiles. And the heavy joint plates. As you can see in the picture, your joint plates break the insulation. They have a pretty good thermal conductivity if you check their stats. So they leak a lot of heat to the outside. Leave the heavy watt wire outside and use transformers to conductive wire. Conductive wire carries 2kW

The turbine needs to be directly above the aquatuner chamber. The water in the aquatuner chamber gets turned to steam because it absorbs the heat in the liquid pipe running through it. The turbine sucks in that steam. You can then have various options with that cooling loop. If you want to cool a room you you can use the loop directly and snake a radiant pipe through it. If you want to cool a gas you can cool down another box of polluted water and run radiant gas pipes through it. You can also do both in one design.

Watch this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Aq3kRTxlW0

The SPOM chamber itself can stay kind of hot if you made the machines there out of gold amalgam for the extra overheat threshold. You probably just want to cool the power generators on the left and the oxygen that comes out. The metal tiles are also counter productive. Why do you want to transfer heat to the hydrogen generators?

 

 

Edited by Steve8

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tzionut    252

@Slane4020 under in spoilers you have my 2 building setups whit aquatuners and steam turbines (automatic circuits also):

1 for cooling my farm area and water for the toilets i have 2 aquatuners. The master to cool the farm area. The thermo pipe sensor activate the liquid shut of valve and the aquatuner once the temperature is above 20 degrees. The slave whit 2 liquid shut of valve and a thermo pipe sensor set at below 20 degrees cool the water for toilets and bristle berries.Once water is detected by the element pipe sensor, the aquatuner is shut off. 

Spoiler

image.thumb.png.7b05e193c84eff8c1a32ee8ba82cd55c.png

image.thumb.png.a5537c98b7af6ef29de31e5bbf72fd6b.png

image.thumb.png.ab0bc95b24407c0c19262aa2eade8ce4.png

image.thumb.png.9b4f1e2231edcfc90dd1157a35850c8a.png

image.thumb.png.eb4c282b05e1e27778f170daf68ae1db.png

The second setup is for cooling water in my future fish aquarium and cooling the oxygen for my base. Same setup without the element pipe sensor

Spoiler

image.thumb.png.9cb2ba5cde0395c4d9c36a4848113ed8.png

image.thumb.png.3888aed1c9eb9ecdb4cc213c8a51d751.png

image.thumb.png.27da26123c805964583d3b269e360602.png

image.thumb.png.df09acae1134e2c3b5900dad8e85af65.png

image.thumb.png.e061c8cd6e9ea9c48b203c0aad7aa5d5.png

image.thumb.png.6210d3f4e3b5ad160659a2ca0e288570.png

 

 

 

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Corpserule    3
17 hours ago, Slane4020 said:

Okay i know its a mess

You can see why my first suggestion was to void it to space!

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