Saturnus

Getting to the mid-game in 100 cycles or less

Recommended Posts

Samson.ONI    15

I think a lot of players define what stage of the game they are in based on what materials they have access to. Diamond, lead, steel, crude oil, petroleum and plastic being mid-game materials. The way you define it makes a lot more sense however. Your base looks well thought out, and props for having implemented so many permanent, sustainable solutions in only 100 cycles.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Steve8    14

I guess living in exo suits is a solution to dealing the CO2 :)

I get distracted by having lots of big plans and making tons of changes. And I'm not one to dig out the whole map, but I do spread a lot and could never be that super compact. Earlier I noticed that my dupes most of their time traveling. So I installed transport dupes. With plastic thanks to glossy dreckos I got very early on. That made getting heavy industry up less pressing, though I've wanted to do it for ages.

I do have a metal refinery up and running though. Just for some small patches of steel here and there. I simply pump up polluted water from a pool and dump it right back in. No fancy cooling needed for that. Not a long term solution obviously

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fleetfeet    18
26 minutes ago, thewreckedangle said:

hm.

out of interest, what is the reason for "rushing" it like this? 

The game is largely about efficiency and optimization. This is a logical, useful, and entertaining continuation of that, no?

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
KittenIsAGeek    1,191
1 hour ago, Saturnus said:

There is one exception though. I always have a dupe with operate, and either supply or construction among the starting dupes. This dupe rushes mecha-engineer so he will be a bit slower to get suit wearing but it pays of compared to waiting to make rail systems/sweepers.

I've found this is critical.  Lately during world-gen I've made sure one of my starting dupes likes supply, operate, and either construction or research.  It really gets annoying when you start to build rail systems and find that your operator can't construct, or that you don't have a dupe trained through mechanical engineering yet.

 

Also, sweet guide.  I tend to take things slower, but there's nothing in your guide that I don't address on my way to the mid-game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
beowulf2010    527
44 minutes ago, KittenIsAGeek said:

I've found this is critical.  Lately during world-gen I've made sure one of my starting dupes likes supply, operate, and either construction or research.  It really gets annoying when you start to build rail systems and find that your operator can't construct, or that you don't have a dupe trained through mechanical engineering yet.

I couldn't agree more. Having a Dupe with supply and operate interests is invaluable to getting conveyors up in a timely fashion. 

@Saturnus, thanks for the write up. Gonna study this tonight and see what other ideas/systems I can pillage fro:Dm you. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Saturnus    3,320
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Steve8 said:

I guess living in exo suits is a solution to dealing the CO2 :)

It's not for that though. It's a solution that allows you to save an enormous amount of dupe time they'd otherwise waste on running back to an area to catch their breath dropping whatever they're carrying in the process. It also allows you to completely ignore any heat or cold.

That's the basis of the solution of having the dupes in atmosuits straight out of bed. However, that in turn allows you to make your base completely different since you can just make a double bell system with CO2 at the bottom where the farm is and oxygen at the top where the dupes sleep. That means that no other gases entering your base has any effect what-so-ever as CO2 automatically excludes all other gases since it's the heaviest gas, and oxygen which is only needed in the bed rooms is the second lightest gas. I've not come to the point where it's needed yet but later hydrogen will also be automatically deleted by the oxygen vents should it stray into the base.

Edited by Saturnus
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
zOldBulldog    15

Very slick and very compact.  I would love to see you expand on the details for the various pieces.

Some things that look better than anything I've seen before and that I would love to fully understand are:

- The method you use for infinite material storage (and the thinking behind it)

- The method you use for infinite liquid storage.

- An in-depth explanation of your overall method for cooling the base.  I see clues here and there but I am not sure I fully understand it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Rebrait    39

The light are making the research fast?

I see a topic about that and i think isn´t

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Saturnus    3,320
23 minutes ago, Rebrait said:

The light are making the research fast?

I see a topic about that and i think isn´t

Outside possible inaccuracy with a stopwatch I measure 5% increase in research speed.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BLACKBERREST3    232
Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Rebrait said:

The light are making the research fast?

I see a topic about that and i think isn´t

10 hours ago, Rebrait said:

Outside possible inaccuracy with a stopwatch I measure 5% increase in research speed.

He's talking about this topic. If it is a 5% increase in speed, then how is he getting the same amount of power consumed?

 

Edited by BLACKBERREST3
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Saturnus    3,320
13 minutes ago, BLACKBERREST3 said:

He's talking about this topic.

I don't see how this question is relevant to this thread.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
storm6436    60

Nice.  Hope that map keeps working out for you.  I generally take a lot longer to get there, usually about cycle 175ish, but most of that is due to the fact that I basically decide up front where my industrial stuff is going to end up going, and spent the first 50 cycles digging out and insulting the base proper before moving on to strip mining the hell out of what is going to be my industrial area.  From a timeline snapshot perspective, it doesn't look like I accomplish much for the first... 80-100 cycles other than the mentioned insulation... and then suddenly *poof* inside 20 cycles I have every facility except the permanent bulk cooler and oil.  mostly because at that point I've set up my temporary cooler and I'm using it to make sure I don't boil myself to death spamming ceramics. :p

 Oh, it might not be terribly efficient, but early game I usually do the CO2/Cl pits and H2 ceiling collection, but since one or both usually covers where I want to go, I end up with temporary reservoirs so I don't waste the "Scamper for air" time you mentioned.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Saturnus    3,320
Posted (edited)

Let me say that this is by no means a "speed run" I can do everything achieved here even faster if I didn't care about set ups and base layouts going forwards. I would also have dug around the giant pool of polluted water blocking access downward instead of spending many cycles on pumping it up.

The reason I rush to the mid-game, and the reason things are set up the way they are is because I have a clear vision of what I want my base to look like, and the rush is because the sooner you get these things sorted the sooner you can start making use of the whole map. There's no point for me in building up slowly because in the beginning you have very limited resources available so I think it's better to have the fundamentals of a base permanently set up as soon as possible, and then build from there when you have more resources available, and your dupes are far more potent.

That out of the way. Here's some of the parts in the build that may be unusual to some. The aquatuner/steam turbine water cooler and the water sieve are so basic I think most will know how they work and is set up.

Farm, base and oxygen cooler

Cooler100.thumb.png.ca06f4e1138bb38cd4fc1fdff2eafe0e.png

It's pretty simple. The bottom is filled with water that act as a thermal buffer and heat exchange medium for the radiant pipes.
Water comes from the right (in regular pipes in insulation tiles) and goes through the water cooler.
Then cold water comes in from the left through radiant pipes, goes around and is tapped by the farms and lavatories.
That means that all cold water used by the base (but not the electrolyzers which doesn't use cooled water) goes through the cooling tank.
Since the cooling tank is in direct contact with the hydroponic tiles and regular pipes are behind all plants it's basically impossible barring a major mistake on my side to get the farm too hot. And frankly, that's what really matters.
The oxygen comes in from both left and right though radiant pipes in the cooling tank, and at the end the oxygen is exactly the same temperature as the water within 0.2C. That oxygen goes to the docking stations and the vent at the top keeping the bedroom nice and chilly (about 21C-24C).
The lavatory water which is fairly cold is used to cool the power plant at the top of the base before being sent to the pincha pepper farm.

Natural gas geyser set up

image.thumb.png.d5b8bf78d40a08b8a97bae62ea14a7e5.png 

I find this a pretty standard set up but someone on discord asked my to post it. It's pretty basic. Just two steel pumps. A bit of automation so only one pump can be on at the same time. And with a vent in a bit of oil to make an infinite storage on the left side.
When pressure rises in the right chamber natural gas will be pumped into the infinite storage on the left.
The reason for the puddle of oil covering the whole floor is that it is extremely easy to set up and can withstand the natural gas temperature. Just dump some oil on the floor. If more than 2kg over the vent then mop a bit until it's under 2kg. When you have plastic and can make high pressure vents it's even easier because then you just have to hit under 20kg oil covering the vent. You'd have to be really forgetful to mess it up.

Oxygen Module

SPOM100.thumb.png.a32259d704b9472645721f4c0e6efeb0.png

I've detailed this set up before but what is unusual about this particular version is that when set up like this you can use manually fed algae diffusers instead of electrolyzers since all element sensors are set to oxygen, well technically all set to NOT oxygen with the NOT gate. The top 2 element sensor are for the filters, and the bottom one is for the blockage sensor to shut off the pumps when the pipe is filled to avoid messing up the filtering.
With algae diffusers what is NOT oxygen is just vented out. With electrolyzers what is NOT oxygen is deleted with hydrogen generators (or you can store the hydrogen if you like). When going from algae diffusers to electrolyzer you just make sure you make it's a vacuum inside before hooking up the water input line.

Temporary Petroleum/Plastic set up

image.thumb.png.00b5cd32907865342ee238302dd9d74c.png

Also a pretty simple build. As it should as it's only temporary. Crude oil is pumped from the oil biome. What is not used by the oil refinery is just used to cool the set up and dumped back out. Sure this will heat up the crude oil but very very slowly so you don't have to worry about it for hundreds of cycles unless your oil biome crude oil is near 100C already. I just dig to the top of the oil biome first. Just deep enough to get a decent pool of crude oil and access to some fossil, diamond, and lead as well. The crude oil at the top of the biome is usually well below 100C.
There's a consumption based start/stop on the oil refinery so dupes don't have to work at it for seconds at a time refilling a single 10kg portion of pipe. The buffer here is just pipes but that's still a 200kg buffer or the polymer press running for 240 seconds which is fine.
The polymer press shut off is temp is higher then 99C to avoid the water inside turning to steam. And the 2 mesh tiles is there to make it possible to mop up water should it get above 50kg or so.
The hydro sensor was for a mini-pump to drain it automatically but then I remembered minipumps have 75C overheat temp so it wouldn't work. Regardless, the two mesh tiles to mop on is fine.
EDIT: thinking about it I'll probably replace the mesh tiles with a pneumatic door controlled by the hydro sensor with a 200s buffer gate. And put a mop command over the door that will only be accessible once the hydro sensor triggers and close the door.  

Edited by Saturnus
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hakon    18
On 1-10-2019 at 9:20 PM, Saturnus said:

- Stable water supply

Thanks for sharing this great colony!  I was just wondering where your normal water comes from, I can only see the sieve. Does that sieve keep up with your consumption?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Saturnus    3,320
2 minutes ago, Hakon said:

Thanks for sharing this great colony!  I was just wondering where your normal water comes from, I can only see the sieve. Does that sieve keep up with your consumption?

Right now it's still on starting water for the base part. The sieve currently only feed the electrlolyzers. But yes, one sieve is enough and just the pools of polluted water I can see around or have already gathered will be enough for the next 100 cycles at least. There's a salt water geyser on the right side, and the next thing I would do playing this map is to check what all the geysers Easter eggs I've uncovered are.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Rebrait    39
19 hours ago, Saturnus said:

I don't see how this question is relevant to this thread.

I was not talking 100% about the topic but wondering if you had the answer to whether the bonus is being applied or not

But, to make a more efficiency and optimization game, the research sequence is important!

if the light isn´t giving the bonus maybe you can change the reserch sequence and make a even better gameplay

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BLACKBERREST3    232
Just now, Rebrait said:

maybe you can change the reserch sequence and make a even better gameplay

This is one of those things that are unique to everyone's playthrough especially if you're going for a perfect run.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Rebrait    39
1 minute ago, BLACKBERREST3 said:

This is one of those things that are unique to everyone's playthrough especially if you're going for a perfect run.

if the research is giving a 15% bonus from the light is a really smart move to research light first
if it isn´t you are only loosing dupe time from the research and the power generation

(the bonus matter to the hamster wheel???)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BLACKBERREST3    232
Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Rebrait said:

if the research is giving a 15% bonus from the light is a really smart move to research light first
if it isn´t you are only loosing dupe time from the research and the power generation

(the bonus matter to the hamster wheel???)

Doesn't work on hamster wheel

19 hours ago, Saturnus said:

I don't see how this question is relevant to this thread.

saturnus doesn't want us talking about it in this thread for some reason so just talk about it from the topics in the lit workplace section on this thread instead.

 

Last thing I'll say about it is that we need a list for it badly, but no one has had the time to test it lately. We only know about a few of them so far.

Edited by BLACKBERREST3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
EnderCN    62
Posted (edited)
On 10/1/2019 at 3:41 PM, thewreckedangle said:

hm.

out of interest, what is the reason for "rushing" it like this? 

Because long games get boring and make people want to quit playing.  That is why there are so many players who will admit they have played thousands of hours and still never made it to space.  It is really hard to stick with a base past like cycle 200 for most players so the more you can get done in that time the better.  Also for me at least if I take a break for a few days because Im busy I won't go back to an advanced base and continue.  Most games are like this for me, take a break from a game of civ and I might as well be done with that game, I won't want to continue later.

Edited by EnderCN
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sigma Cypher    64
Quote

And should some one like to see it, I can keep playing the same map, and see how many cycles it takes to be space-ready.

Raises hand.  Yes!! I should very much like to see it.  Thanks very much for this.  It could be the most concise guide I've seen for ONI.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now