Wheezeworts, how do they work now?

[Bluefoxfire]

People are seriously forgetting that Worts are to heat as ATs are to CO2. It's not really to delete it, it's to keep it from building up.

[TLW]

2 hours ago, Bluefoxfire said:

People are seriously forgetting that Worts are to heat as ATs are to CO2.

useless once you get to steam :: useless once you get to door compressors or space

 

...yeah, that sounds about right.

[Mojo Filter]

On 9/20/2019 at 11:42 AM, Chthonicone said:

Don't worry about the couple of whiners in here. It's their opinion, even if it's objectively wrong.

Harsh.

On 9/20/2019 at 11:42 AM, Chthonicone said:

The plain fact is that Wheezeworts remove up to 1800 DTUs for 1g of phosphorite, which is easy to get if you have any dreckos on the map.

The Thermo Nullifier removes 8,000 DTUs for 1g of hydrogen, and is only 4.4 times faster for something that you can't move around and place where you need it.

AETN immobility seems like a strange argument. Their placement is only an issue if it ends up in a strange corner of the map. I am using two AETN's in my current base. One of them pipes cooled hydrogen in a closed loop around my entire base, cooling it for 10g/s of hydrogen that I have an excess of anyway.

If you are looking for spot cooling, why not use an Ice-E Fan? Sure, it consumes dupe labor and requires frozen material as input, but you get the water back (at a nice cool temperature) for additional use.

[Xaekai]

The fact is, late game the AETNs should not be immobile. They just aren't that special. You should be able to get something like an "Gravitas engineering manual" from space which lets deconstruct the AETNs and get the iron and a "Nullifer core" so you can rebuild the unit elsewhere. It wouldn't let you build new ones, (unless you could also find more AETN cores from distant destinations on the starmap, which would be neat) but you could reposition the ones you got. It's just a machine, why shouldn't you be able to move it?

As for wheezeworts, the only way I've been able to make them useful is brute force. I have like another 20 wort seeds I just don't even bother with. They just sit there in storage.

[lunazone]

I don't understand how they're useless, it's nearly impossible to run out of phosphorite and dupes deliver four days of resources to them at a time, the delivery takes 20 seconds at most, and if you're using an auto sweeper that's such a little power drain for once every few cycles. I think they're great as passive coolers. Nothing industrial though of course.

They're great when paired with farm crops such as bristle berries, implying you aren't pumping 110-degree F water into them.

 

[Chthonicone]

7 hours ago, Mojo Filter said:

Harsh.

AETN immobility seems like a strange argument. Their placement is only an issue if it ends up in a strange corner of the map. I am using two AETN's in my current base. One of them pipes cooled hydrogen in a closed loop around my entire base, cooling it for 10g/s of hydrogen that I have an excess of anyway.

If you are looking for spot cooling, why not use an Ice-E Fan? Sure, it consumes dupe labor and requires frozen material as input, but you get the water back (at a nice cool temperature) for additional use.

Might be harsh, but there are at least 4 people who have come into this thread with "LOL, just trash them" with no reasoning given other than that they think wheezeworts suck now. I might be more inclined to listen to their argument if they ever actually gave one.

Honestly, they're just spamming a thread without giving any useful input.

[SVV]

3 hours ago, Chthonicone said:

Might be harsh, but there are at least 4 people who have come into this thread with "LOL, just trash them" with no reasoning given other than that they think wheezeworts suck now.

Reason is simple: you just don't need cooling before you get aquatuner and steam turbine. I am playing "all achievements" colonies. First 100 cycles are just hunting and ranching, no need and no time to cool your base. After that you have large part of map discovered, getting plastic is trivial. Even if somehow it will not be trivial, then I will use my second favourite method of cooling: deconstruct/construct buildings so their temperature is reset to 45C. But such case has not happened yet.

[xialeth]

I also use wheezeworts to cool my drecko ranch (keep the mealwood at a growable temp). I think they're super nice if you're not able to just easily set up a steam turbine, which I'm still struggling with -- I can get to mid-game reliably, but am not that proficient at just building the more complicated mid-game builds on the spot, so the wheezewort means I don't have to worry about rushing to a steam turbine set-up and can just progress at my own pace, which I much appreciate. 

So I'd say: they have a definite niche, even though for more experienced players they might not matter so much

[Bluefoxfire]

To all the people who think for cooling that ATs and Steam gens are all the matter and everything else is a noob trap, how about you wonder what happens if Klei does a surprise ninja update and makes it go the way of the  Fertilizer Syth exploit and the like; what will you say and do then?

Klei won't do it because they don't care anymore is not a valid answer because that makes you sound like you're using the "it's not cheating if everyone does it" excuse.

[SVV]

1 hour ago, Bluefoxfire said:

how about you wonder what happens if Klei does a surprise ninja update and makes it go the way of the  Fertilizer Syth exploit and the like; what will you say and do then?

My list of cooling methods from best to worst:
1. Steam turbines.
2. Reconstructing buildings.(I always do this in space before endgame solutions)
3. Abusing Heat capacity.
4. Matter deletion.(Should be second, but I like hoarding not deleting)
5. Ice makers.
6. Wheezeworts.
If Klei removes methods from 1 to 4 then I will say "there is nothing to do here with such variety of cooling methods" and will drop this game. I had a lot of fun till now, but there is nothing that can be removed to make game more interesting for me.

[Steve Raptor]

i Don't agree with the massive over-hate worts are getting.

I still find them useful for small cooling designs like SPOM, farms, light machinery rooms and stuff that generally doesn't require large amount of cooling.

[Glassyfo]

I use them in my drecko ranches to keep mealwood from overheating.

[Bobasour]

Okay I'm a bit confused reading this post. I've never used wheezworts or AETNs to cool anything down. I've always used an aquatuner + steam turbine + huge cooling loops setup for everything. PH2O early game, and switch to super coolant late game. Is that actually not a popular option here?

[Chthonicone]

33 minutes ago, Bobasour said:

Okay I'm a bit confused reading this post. I've never used wheezworts or AETNs to cool anything down. I've always used an aquatuner + steam turbine + huge cooling loops setup for everything. PH2O early game, and switch to super coolant late game. Is that actually not a popular option here?

Depends on who  you ask, and I bet what asteroids you start on. Start on Arboria and you won't have that water to cool with.

[nakomaru]

1 hour ago, Bobasour said:

Okay I'm a bit confused reading this post. I've never used wheezworts or AETNs to cool anything down. I've always used an aquatuner + steam turbine + huge cooling loops setup for everything. PH2O early game, and switch to super coolant late game. Is that actually not a popular option here?

This is basically ideal.

[Chthonicone]

15 minutes ago, nakomaru said:

This is basically ideal.

Aquatuners are never energy positive. At best with super coolant you can regain ~1.1 kW from the 1.2 kW you use. If you use water you're actually only getting back about 0.55 kW of it.

It's only ideal if you ignore the power it takes to run the system, and the fuel that takes. Sure some sources of fuel can last a long time, and vents are indefinite, but that's power you could have used for something more productive.

I'm not saying that aquatuners are completely useless either, but worshipping them is a misguided venture.

[Steve8]

On 21.9.2019 at 6:00 PM, FantasticMoose said:

I use a couple of wheezes to keep temperature down in my drecko farms.
 

Yep. Dreckos are very hot and eventually cause issues for the mealwood. A single wheezewort at the top where the hydrogen is works nicely. With some temp shift plates it also keeps an incubator cool. Otherwise you'd need to place it outside the farm.

Other places I use them are between a water sieve and a compost. And maybe next to the rock crusher. They are nice to keep these small hotspots from getting out of hand.

When people just go "use the aquatuner" they are always thinking of huge industrial setups and simply ignore everything else.

[Bluefoxfire]

19 hours ago, SVV said:

My list of cooling methods from best to worst:
1. Steam turbines.
2. Reconstructing buildings.(I always do this in space before endgame solutions)
3. Abusing Heat capacity.
4. Matter deletion.(Should be second, but I like hoarding not deleting)
5. Ice makers.
6. Wheezeworts.
If Klei removes methods from 1 to 4 then I will say "there is nothing to do here with such variety of cooling methods" and will drop this game. I had a lot of fun till now, but there is nothing that can be removed to make game more interesting for me.

I meant more just removing method 1 as at least 2 through 4 requires dupe time and/or some rather complex setups.

[Aelfled]

The hate for steam turbines is rather silly, unless you also want rid of manual generators, coal generators, gas generators, and petrol generators, they all ultimately use mechanical energy to drive a dynamo

[Chthonicone]

40 minutes ago, Aelfled said:

The hate for steam turbines is rather silly, unless you also want rid of manual generators, coal generators, gas generators, and petrol generators, they all ultimately use mechanical energy to drive a dynamo

What are you talking about? I don't think anyone here has hated on steam turbines at all. They are just inefficient for cooling lower temperatures. Unless what you are cooling is above 125C, you need an aquatuner to cool it further, and as I said, unless you are using super coolant with an aquatuner, you're at least 50% inefficient with that method. Basically you're borrowing power from something else just to cool your base, costing you some sort of fuel, even if it is a renewable fuel it's an opportunity cost, just like dupe labor.

[Echo_Hotel]

On 9/20/2019 at 6:09 AM, Steve8 said:

This forum is so silly. All is about min/maxing instead of just playing the game and using what is there even if it's not always optimal. Wheezeworts aren't useless just because you can't use them to cool a volcano or geyser anymore

Min/Maxing is the entire point of the game. The entire idea is to make efficient systems so you can survive and expand, maximizing gains while minimising losses is how you do that, this isn't like Skyrim where removing the enchantment-alchemy feedback loop helped the overall game by removing an effective but boring grind.

[DarkMaster13]

17 minutes ago, Echo_Hotel said:

Min/Maxing is the entire point of the game. The entire idea is to make efficient systems so you can survive and expand, maximizing gains while minimising losses is how you do that, this isn't like Skyrim where removing the enchantment-alchemy feedback loop helped the overall game by removing an effective but boring grind.

It's a single player game.  It's whatever you want it to be.  If you want to play challenge modes where you ignore certain things like heat deletion or certain food crops, that's your choice.  If you want to do a casual playthrough without optimising absolutely everything, that's your choice.  If you do want to min-max the crap out of absolutely everything, that's your choice.

[Glassyfo]

3 hours ago, Echo_Hotel said:

Min/Maxing is the entire point of the game.

No it's not. It's entirely possible to survive in the game without optimizing everything to pieces.

[Lancar]

Ever since Klei made the Steam Turbine actually useful I haven't really touched wheezes, nerfed or not. The only applications I ever saw for them were industrial, because outside of that there really isn't much point in cooling anything. With turbines and ATs taking over that job & doing it so very extremely efficiently, I just never found a use for the wheezes anymore.

It's not that I can't see places where they _could_ be used, because I can, it's just that the ST+AT combo is just so much better at the job where it actually counts.

[Dosephshih]

Um...I am not 100% if my memory still correct, wheezewort would cool the gas by 5C at the rate of 1kg/s. Therefore, if it is immersed in Hydrogen, the cooling load is 12kDTU/s.

However, if it is put in oxygen, the cooling load become 5kDTU/s, since the heat capacity is different.

In the good old days, we can just put it in hydrogen and set up a cooling chamber and then forget it. Now, it would need access for fertilizing every day. It is still useful depends on your build. But just need to ensure you have enough Phosphorus which is not difficult, and a little bit dupes time, which is also not difficult. 

I would still use it if the following conditions are met:

1. Cannot use the e-fan;

2. Phosphorus is not a concern at the moment;

3. heat load is not very high, e.g. ~a few kDTU/s;

4. May not set up turbine for cooling in the future, or cannot wait for that;

 

In conclusion, I can plant them next to the something like Kitchen to absorb the little steady heat.