Wheezeworts, how do they work now?

[TaeganRiles]

Hi,
I took a break from the game around the time QoL Mk.2 released.  I'm back and notice there have been a lot of changes.  One is the nerf to Wheezeworts no longer being plantable in flower pots though the in-game Database entry has not been updated to reflect this change. 

What else has changed about them?  Do Wort Seeds still self plant or do I need to wrangle a Pip somewhere I want to have a "naturally" planted Wheezewort?  Can they even be "naturally" replanted or are we stuck using farm tiles once a Wheezewort has been uprooted?

[avc15]

Plant in a farm plot instead of a flower pot. They need to be fertilized once per day, so now they use up your limited phosphorite and dupe errands.

Or, you can use pips to plant them in natural tiles but only at best once every other square. If you wild plant them, they don't need to be fertilized but they only breathe 30% as much air.

All in all wheezeworts are no longer useful for industrial scale cooling, but might still be useful as an aid in your base.

[alexkuzmov]

13 minutes ago, avc15 said:

Plant in a farm plot instead of a flower pot. They need to be fertilized once per day, so now they use up your limited phosphorite and dupe errands.

Or, you can use pips to plant them in natural tiles but only at best once every other square. If you wild plant them, they don't need to be fertilized but they only breathe 30% as much air.

All in all wheezeworts are no longer useful for industrial scale cooling, but might still be useful as an aid in your base.

Phosphorite is limited only if you dont have dreckos and balm lilies. Otherwise its a free resource.
I gave this a check in debug, works like a charm:

[Loscil2]

By not using them, move on.

[Chthonicone]

9 minutes ago, Loscil2 said:

By not using them, move on.

That's silly. They have a place, just not the same place people used previously. Don't overuse them is all.

[Xuhybrid]

1 hour ago, Chthonicone said:

That's silly. They have a place, just not the same place people used previously. Don't overuse them is all.

Nah not worth it.

[Chthonicone]

3 minutes ago, Xuhybrid said:

Nah not worth it.

If you consider 1800 DTU per g phosphorite cooled to not be worth it (in hydrogen)

By comparison an Anti-Entropy Thermo Nullifier is 8000 DTU per g hydrogen

I've had maps where I had so much phosphorite its silly. Saying it's always not worth it is very short sighted.

[Mojo Filter]

42 minutes ago, Chthonicone said:

If you consider 1800 DTU per g phosphorite cooled to not be worth it (in hydrogen)

By comparison an Anti-Entropy Thermo Nullifier is 8000 DTU per g hydrogen

I've had maps where I had so much phosphorite its silly. Saying it's always not worth it is very short sighted.

Sure, by the numbers, they don't seem terrible, but you're not accounting for dupe labor. And yes, you can automate the phosphorite deliver, but then you're spending power.

If you want to convince people that wheezeworts are still a viable option, show us a practical build. Why would we turn to this over any other method of cooling?

[bobucles]

Wheezeworts spawn at a fixed temperature, and a single seed blooms into 400kg of heat absorbing genetic ooze.

Plant them in a hot room, wait for the plant to match the local temperature, uproot and replant. 

They an also delete some heat too, if you're into that kind of stuff.

[Steve8]

They are still well worth it for smaller cooling needs. You just can't use them to cool everything anymore, which is good. I use them to keep a water sieve and compost cool. Or to counteract the heat from dreckos and an incubators, which can otherwise threaten the mealwood the dreckos eat. They also work on hot maps so you can grow food.

There is also plenty of phosphorite around. 4kg per cycle isn't much and with dreckos it's a non-issue.

[Moondrake]

Wheezeworts used to be a lot of fun but Klei has made them all but useless. Setting up an automated feeding system for wheezeworts in a closed build is silly when compared to using an aqua-tuner. Wild wheeseworts are now so utterly ineffectual that they can't even keep an Ice Biome cold and are barely worth the effort of having a Pip plant them.

Klei has very recently changed several fun things and replaced them with... nothing. Recently implemented restrictions on planetary resources are so draconian that you can't farm planets anymore. Now the only reason to build a rocket is to acquire some Isoresin, fullerene, and niobium. Since these can usually be gotten with a steam engine, I'm not sure why anybody would even bother to build rockets with petroleum and hydrogen engines anymore.

I've loved playing ONI for a long time now but I'm distressed at many of the recent changes. ONI veterans are used to seeing Klei change things without any apparent understanding of how it affects the game, but many of the recent changes have been the worst. Simply put, the game is not as enjoyable as it used to be and the amount of time I spend playing ONI has dropped precipitously as a result. I don't even know if it is possible to make Klei understand how they are driving away the very players who have been their staunchest supporters for so long, which makes me sad.

[LookingForBaal]

9 hours ago, TaeganRiles said:

Hi,
I took a break from the game around the time QoL Mk.2 released.  I'm back and notice there have been a lot of changes.  One is the nerf to Wheezeworts no longer being plantable in flower pots though the in-game Database entry has not been updated to reflect this change. 

What else has changed about them?  Do Wort Seeds still self plant or do I need to wrangle a Pip somewhere I want to have a "naturally" planted Wheezewort?  Can they even be "naturally" replanted or are we stuck using farm tiles once a Wheezewort has been uprooted?

 

I say keep using them, just bear in mind you will need phosphorite.  A lot of forum posts freaked me out and made me think there was no way I would able to cool things anymore because "Wheezeworts are worthless" etc.. they are not.  I kept my base cool for many cycles with them, eventually adding sweepers for the Phosphorite.

 

I've since moved to AETN for most of the cooling.  I do not play with debug mode or any mods, cheats, etc.

[Yunru]

1 hour ago, Moondrake said:

Setting up an automated feeding system for wheezeworts in a closed build is silly when compared to using an aqua-tuner.

Setting up an aqua-tuner to delete heat is sillier still, since it, y'know, doesn't.

[Derringer]

2 hours ago, Yunru said:

4 hours ago, Moondrake said:

Setting up an automated feeding system for wheezeworts in a closed build is silly when compared to using an aqua-tuner.

Setting up an aqua-tuner to delete heat is sillier still, since it, y'know, doesn't.

One requires delivery of phosphorite, the other requires electricity and a place to dump the removed heat. Either one can be set up to run without dupe access, if that's what a 'closed build' means.

[Moondrake]

3 hours ago, Yunru said:

Setting up an aqua-tuner to delete heat is sillier still, since it, y'know, doesn't.

Of course it doesn't, but you missed the entire point. Building a delivery and feeding system for wheeseworts is nearly as complex as building an aqua-tuner system with a steam turbine to delete the heat. If you have to build a system to cool stuff then you might as well build one that is useful for cooling LOTS of stuff. An aqua-tuner/turbine setup is also arguably easier because you don't need dupes with the Mechatronics Engineering skill to build it.

[Chthonicone]

7 minutes ago, Moondrake said:

Did you purposely miss the entire point? Building a delivery and feeding system for wheeseworts is just as complex as building an aqua-tuner system with a steam turbine to delete the heat. If you have to build a complex system to cool stuff then you might as well build one that is useful for cooling LOTS of stuff. An aqua-tuner/turbine setup is also arguably easier because you don't need dupes with the Mechatronics Engineering skill to build it.

I see, so it is ridiculous to play the game for you. I'm sorry about that, but I find setting up systems to be fun and core to my enjoyment of the game.

Such a setup isn't even that complex, and not as power consuming as you make it out to be as 20 kg are delivered at a time at least, and that's 5 days worth, for a brief moment of 120 W. That's what? maybe 120 DTUs of energy?

[avc15]

A conveyor system operating at full capacity of 20 kg per second uses up 360 Watts. 120 for the loader, 240 for two sweepers operating continuously. The same is true of any fully utilized conveyor rail, no matter how many loaders and sweepers are connected to it.

 

If you could say quadruple the number of delivery tasks, i e only delivering 4 kg per day to each worth, that figure would go up to 900 Watts for a fully utilized rail that delivered 20 kg per second.

 

Except, a room with 60 domesticated Worts would only use 240 kg per day of phosphorite, or 0.4 kg per second which is just 4% of the rail's full capacity. In other words, for a room of 60 Worts, no matter how many sweepers and loaders you configured it with, it will average 36 watts of power use.

(Tl;Dr conveyors for domestic wheezeworts cost just over 0.5 watts per wheezewort, no matter how many loaders & sweepers on your system - as long as the loaders receive 20 kg per loading task)

[Chthonicone]

6 minutes ago, avc15 said:

A conveyor system operating at full capacity of 20 kg per second uses up 360 Watts. 120 for the loader, 240 for two sweepers operating continuously. The same is true of any fully utilized conveyor rail, no matter how many loaders and sweepers are connected to it.

 

If you could say quadruple the number of delivery tasks, i e only delivering 4 kg per day to each worth, that figure would go up to 900 Watts for a fully utilized rail that delivered 20 kg per second.

 

Except, a room with 60 domesticated Worts would only use 240 kg per day of phosphorite, or 0.4 kg per second which is just 4% of the rail's full capacity. In other words, for a room of 60 Worts, no matter how many sweepers and loaders you configured it with, it will average 36 watts of power use.

(Tl;Dr conveyors for domestic wheezeworts cost just over 0.5 watts per wheezewort, no matter how many loaders & sweepers on your system - as long as the loaders receive 20 kg per loading task)

There you go, assuming it operates at full capacity. If it's not moving anything out of a loader, it uses no power, even if it has stuff to move. A sweeper sitting idle uses no power as well.

You do not need to constantly deliver phosphorite to the wheeze wort. It will only do so every few days.

Edit: Ok, I didn't finish reading the post. You do agree with me. Sorry. I'm a little tired and irritated today, but not at you guys.

[nakomaru]

Use their seeds in the compost to provide 1kg of more useful dirt.

[Xaekai]

1 hour ago, nakomaru said:

Use their seeds in the compost to provide 1kg of more useful dirt.

The absolute state of Wheezeworts.

[Steve8]

This forum is so silly. All is about min/maxing instead of just playing the game and using what is there even if it's not always optimal. Wheezeworts aren't useless just because you can't use them to cool a volcano or geyser anymore

[Gurgel]

23 hours ago, Xuhybrid said:

Nah not worth it.

Agreed. They are a means of last resort now. Far too much effort if you have any other solution. 

[Chthonicone]

On 9/19/2019 at 8:08 AM, TaeganRiles said:

Hi,
I took a break from the game around the time QoL Mk.2 released.  I'm back and notice there have been a lot of changes.  One is the nerf to Wheezeworts no longer being plantable in flower pots though the in-game Database entry has not been updated to reflect this change. 

What else has changed about them?  Do Wort Seeds still self plant or do I need to wrangle a Pip somewhere I want to have a "naturally" planted Wheezewort?  Can they even be "naturally" replanted or are we stuck using farm tiles once a Wheezewort has been uprooted?

Don't worry about the couple of whiners in here. It's their opinion, even if it's objectively wrong. They just don't like any nerf or change that requires them to adapt and would rather compare wheezeworts that are to wheezeworts that were, rather than actually comparing them to things that actually exist.

The plain fact is that Wheezeworts remove up to 1800 DTUs for 1g of phosphorite, which is easy to get if you have any dreckos on the map.

The Thermo Nullifier removes 8,000 DTUs for 1g of hydrogen, and is only 4.4 times faster for something that you can't move around and place where you need it.

Aquatuners reduce temperature by a flat 14C, which is more or less DTUs depending on the liquid, but now you have to worry about the 1200 watt cost of the aquatuner, a possible 240 watt cost of a pump if you are pumping things through once but not keeping it in the pipe, and not overheating the aquatuner or freezing the liquid. They are by far the hardest of the set to set up.

Comparing phosphorite to hydrogen though is like comparing apples and oranges. Instead look at it like this: If you have apples, use the apples, if you have oranges use the oranges. Both are very well balanced. Thermo nullifiers are rare and immobile. Wheezeworts are fairly common and can be placed where you want them. As such Wheezeworts are a good option for spot cooling if you need it.

[DarkMaster13]

All maps have huge deposits of phosphorite in toxic biomes.  You aren't going to be burning through those during the time you'd actually be using an weezeworts.  By that point, you'd have had plenty of time to move onto other cooling methods.  Weezes are for early to mid game cooling or when you need minor cooling in one place.  A method to get less power intensive and more permanent ice maker effect.  They're great for keeping farms cool, countering any heat getting past insulated tile, and on the entrances to hot biomes to cap the heat.  A single weeze only needs a dupe to come by ever three cycles, all plants that need it are fertilized every three cycles.  Even in the late game, weezes are still extremely useful for spot cooling.

So what do you use weezes for?  You use around half a dozen of them to do environmental control around your base and farms.  You do not use them for large scale industrial operations.  You will need to use a more complicated cooling system for that.  Which is better design, since they were just a set and forget system with no input costs or by-products.

[FantasticMoose]

I use a couple of wheezes to keep temperature down in my drecko farms.
The dreckos even make the phosporite themselves.

I could pipe liquid coolant through it instead, but the fire and forget of the wheezes takes about 3 seconds to set up.