Mathgeekburch

Heat multiplication devices; is there a specific community name for them?

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So I was looking at a video on a self powering natural gas heater designed that took large use of heat multiplication of crude oil going directly to sour gas (through method of the 1kg liquid pipe exploit), where the latter has a higher SHC, and I thought about using it for multiplying high temperature heat production.

Now I presume something like this is already in the community at a large scale (I am out of the loop so I really don't know), so is there a specific name for it?  Like Heat Multiplier; Heat Amplifier?

I saw @mathmanican  call one of his creations a Heat Energy Duplication Device which used a freezing melting mechanic to double heat energy(using lead).
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Is that the popular term to call these devices?  What popular designs are out there currently?


Anyways, I am interested in heat multiplication devices that work above the 1100c range.  Specifically ones above the 3000c range.

Looking at combinations of liquids and gases I think I saw 3 candidates for heat multiplication through SHC.

Most obvious is running liquid crude oil at 1kg through a tungsten liquid pipe, that goes up a long shaft and at the very top I have a metal refinery outputting 3000c+ coolant that heats up the sour gas medium at the top to the same scorching temperature.  The sour gas transmits the heat to the liquid crude oil so it gets above 3000c before exiting the liquid vent at the top.  The super hot sour gas fills up the shaft transmitting most of the heat to the crude oil with some to spare.

And then I find some way to use the spare heat energy to melt some natural ore tiles. Or slowly heat abyssalite close to its melting point; this cannot actually melt it though since this uses tungsten pipes (which melt at the same temp).  In theory normal pipes made of insulation could be used to get hotter, but I don't know how long the thing would need to be to conduct enough heat, also it would likely require the gas to be super dense (I think pipes are buildings, so they should be heated faster by higher thermal mass mediums).

An alternative liquid I saw was liquid salt.  I need to double check but it seems that the SHC of the liquid is 0.7; while the gas is 0.88.  That is a huge increase, plus if the gas condenses, you can put it back in the pipes; instead of needing to constantly produce new crude oil. It also has a far higher conductivity. Uses the same method as described with the crude oil.


I also noticed molten glass and rock gas.  Molten glass has a SHC of a small 0.2; but when you boil it you get rock gas with a moderate SHC of 1.  So a gigantic increase even over salt.  Although it does consume the glass, so you need constant production.  If you decide to just melt sand without a forge; the efficiency drops because of the sand's SHC of 0.83; but you only have to heat it up to 1712.85c before you can shove it into the pipes; so you don't have quite as bad of a heat conversion as you'd expect.  Alternatively you could use a glass forge, although it does delete 75% of your sand (then again you should have a lot of that with a simple ethanol pokeshell farm) and most annoyingly it needs dupe labor.  Then again you don't need to worry about a liquid pump so that is a plus.

I also saw that liquid steel and gas steel have a SHC difference; although no liquid pipe can survive that.  There might be some way to use it, but it is above my head.

I believe Mathmanician's Heat Energy Duplication Device might be able to be redesigned to use tungsten; although I don't know how it compares to these other methods.

Yeah I know I can get tungsten from melting insulation pipes and have an easier time; and that this build idea already uses a lot of tungsten (technically I only need tungsten at the top where the hottest parts are); but I want to heat up those natural abyssalite tiles close to their melting point dammit.

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8 hours ago, mathmanican said:

In case you were unaware, the metal cannon used on thermium doors yields massive amounts of tungsten.

Although isn't that strait up material duplication?  That always feels cheaty in a resource based game; more so than almost any other exploit.  Especially when on a valuable material like tungsten.

Regardless my goal of melting natural abyssalite still stands.  And preheating it to a few degrees of melting point is a big part of my plan to reach that goal.

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mathmanican    2,312
2 hours ago, Mathgeekburch said:

Regardless my goal of melting natural abyssalite still stands.

Steel can get hot enough to melt wolframite mech doors, using the metal cannon.  The liquid that falls out will be very close to solidifying. Cool it to exactly to a solid (about 3C below transition temp).  Amass a horde of the stuff (100t). Then use the split piles bug do duplicate this as many times as you want, amassing a gigantic heat source stuff that is just under 3C of tungstens melting point. :)  Yes, very exploity, but all of the stuff we've been talking about is. 

Saturday, while playing with heat duplication and building a baker setup, I had another odd issue that I'm going to explore.  I had some solid lead sitting in 1kg of 620K crude oil. The tile above the crude oil was 585K steam.  The debri temp was at 595K and DROPPING.  Yes, the debris were sitting in hotter oil, but their temp was dropping. I'm guessing this has to do with a left to right, top to bottom, computation issue.  The game engine temporarily pushed the liquid out of the way (the quantity of liquid was below viscosity and could possibly fall), the the heat computation was performed, and then finally the liquid layers were pushed back up (game realized finally that the liquid should not fall). Not sure if this is what happened exactly, but it was odd enough that it's on my explore list.  If this is true, then we can use hot gasses to heat up debris in a cooler liquid region, while letting the liquid stay cool.  Temp shift plates just far enough away from a thing boundary layer can help maintain a nice thermal boundary when there is a very small amount of liquid on the boundary layer (easy to achieve). 

Why mention this here?  Simple, you need something that can transfer heat rapidly at super high temps. A gaseous metal might be your friend, but you need to make sure the surrounding equipment doesn't melt . So a hot gas above a 4 deep pool of liquid cool enough to freeze tungsten, just barely, might be useful. We'll invent a high throughput abysalite melter yet. :) Not sure if that will happen before or after we get a proper way to deal with the stuff (other than put it through a chute that buries it beyond reach). 

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13 minutes ago, mathmanican said:

Yes, very exploity, but all of the stuff we've been talking about is. 

I like to think exploity things exist on a spectrum.  Somethings are far more exploity than others.  One can have a limit on how far along the spectrum they want to go; so it isn't all or nothing.  Regardless I am looking at all the designs across the spectrum for this; just so someone can decide for themselves how far on the spectrum the want to go.

 

19 minutes ago, mathmanican said:

amassing a gigantic heat source stuff that is just under 3C of tungstens melting point.


So then you'd need to get the heat outside of debris right?  I am not too sure that gas metal would be the best for that.  Liquid steel has a conductivity of 80 and survives 3C under tungsten's melting point.  The best gas is lead, with a conductivity of 3.5; so a pretty large difference.  Then again gases expand to fill the room, so it might be useful.
 

 

31 minutes ago, mathmanican said:

So a hot gas above a 4 deep pool of liquid cool enough to freeze tungsten, just barely, might be useful.


"cool enough to freeze tungsten"; do you mean the gas or the pool of liquid?
 

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Random side question:

Do you happen to know per length, how fast of a heat transfer out of normal liquid pipe made of insulation is when submerged in liquid steel, or emtombed in diamond tiles with 3600c liquid steel flowing through it?     I know it is slow, but how slow is it?  Is it too slow to be useful?

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mathmanican    2,312
1 hour ago, Mathgeekburch said:

do you mean the gas or the pool of liquid?

The gas would be the heat source, and the liquid the cool source, with a super thin layer of liquid between them to throttle the heat transfer. The debris sit in the the thin layer of "cool" liquid (as liquid to liquid heat transfer has a 625 multiplier), but the bug I noticed saturday allows the gas (from one tile away) do the heat transfer.  It was bonkers to watch debris sit in liquid have the temperature difference increase, rather than decrease....

 

1 hour ago, Mathgeekburch said:

So then you'd need to get the heat outside of debris right?

A thick layer of liquid metal (steel) on the debri works wonderfully (provided vacuum above). you could easily multiply the heat from  100t of tungsten into the heat of 10000t of tungsten (with @Blazing Falken's recent find), and then extract that heat to melt more abysallite. 

I'm assuming we want some king of abysallite metler than can process 10kg/s or something, so we can process all our abysallite without having to wait 100000 cycles. I think enough of the details are figured out that we could actually compute our exact needs. 

1 hour ago, Mathgeekburch said:

Do you happen to know per length, how fast of a heat transfer out of normal liquid pipe made of insulation is when submerged in liquid steel, or emtombed in diamond tiles with 3600c liquid steel flowing through it?     I know it is slow, but how slow is it?  Is it too slow to be useful?

I don't, but I'm sure it can be computed.  

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12 minutes ago, mathmanican said:

I'm assuming we want some king of abysallite metler than can process 10kg/s or something,


So we are looking at about 8 giga DTU per cycle to melt the average of 1 tile per day?  Or are we over producing the heat to speed it up?



 

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mathmanican    2,312
Just now, Mathgeekburch said:

Or are we over producing the heat to speed it up?

I always prefer to speed it up.  10kg/s pumps are so slow.  Might as well go to 500kg/s or 1000kg/s, or even faster.  :)  I'm not sure what the numbers are, but I'm pretty sure you can figure them out.  I'm still stuck in my phase change rabbit hole, trying to increase pump speed (both up and down), as well as multiplying the doubling effect to hopefully get 16 times the thermal energy from magma. It would probably be a lot faster to just build 16 storage compactors and move debris, but where's the fun in that when you can instead push stuff around at 1000kg/s and watch huge crazy machines do their stuff. ;) 

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