[Discussion] On Wickerbottom reworks

[Mike23Ua]

I hope these make everyone poop book ideas are just jokes... lol I have actually played games where players can force other players to poop. One such game was Ark Survival Evolved- there was an exploit in that game known as “Poop Locking” other players- what this did was force players to stand in one spot continuously pooping themselves obviously this issue was patched but for this reason alone I don’t want anything AT ALL to do with being able to force other players to poop.

it just brings back painful memories I want to go away. I hope they do some seriously cool stuff for Wickerbottom though.. but not poop. Let’s please avoid that.

[00petar00]

8 hours ago, pedregales said:

 

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I only subtracted 25 health from her player-average 150 health, is not like she would be Maxwell frail, besides, healing health is easy, specially with Wicker. Her being able to bypass sanity cost per book-read is what let's her be completely busted, specially because you can stay insane to farm nightmare fuel, which is yet again why Maxwell reading is such a great way to bypass his second biggest downside: dapperness; plus again: recovering sanity is not that hard specially if you play Wicker. A 0.75 damage modifier is not that big of a deal: Wendy is a perfectly good character despite having it because Abigail offers more than enough usefulness on her own; and do you know what offers more usefulness than abigail? Wicker's books.

And you can find plenty of people doing well with Wes. Wes is not that much of a "challenge" despite being the "challenge character". He is just a Wilson with worse stats, so whatever you do with Wilson, you do with Wes; battles will just be riskier and longer. But for Wicker, they wouldn't have to be longer or riskier because she can use on tentacles and sleepytime stories, plus any other new books that she could possibly use for combat after her rework (since I hope she gets more books).

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I mentioned those character rework nerfs because you said no character was nerfed during their rework, which as I proved: is wrong. I never mentioned Woodie (or any of them) were useless after their reworks (I mean, Woodie kind of was until his forms were buffed to last longer). All characters reworked have got nerfs, doesn't matter how useful they are now.

As for Winona's nerf: I forgot to mention she can't speed craft when her hunger is below 50; sure, she also does not lose 5 hunger, but speed craft was Winona's biggest thing before the rework; now it costs hunger and is unactive under a certain hunger threshold. Not the biggest of deals, but it sure would be nice if she could bypass it like Wicker does so she can craft faster, oh, wait, you can't farm nightmare fuel on low hunger? What a shame /s. Not to mention speed crafting is still not as useful as any of Wicker's books.

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So you are telling me that a griefer would go to the extent of picking Wicker -> farming 8 cut reeds for 2 extra papyrus -> Get enough materials for an alchemy engine -> kill enough tentacles to get 2 tentacle spots (25% chance each) -> make the 2 on tentacles books and use them on spawn 10 times? Don't you think that is a little convoluted to be common place? Like, I can get people doing it or trying to do it because creativity and what not; but I don't think this is something griefers would do a lot. And again, there are plenty of ways to grief even with protective mods on: lure seasonal giants to base, eat all food, craft stuff you find into useless junk (say, who needs 4 lightning rods at the exact same place?), etc. And to add more: for the end is nigh you need a red gem, so you would have to also make a shovel, dig graves until you find a red gem, or wait for summer when fire hounds spawn, and kill them; plus you need to build a prestihatitator and a shadow manipulator to make the end is nigh. Griefing with Wicker would not be common place.

You are right, you never mentioned PvP, I misread and jumped the gut there. Sorry about that.

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A player doesn't have to be "actively" playing a character in order to give their overall opinion on them. Just with looking at how other people play the character, and trying the character themselves a couple times is enough to form a decent opinion on the character and what could be tweaked or not.

Also, I do not have a main. I play whichever, whenever; except for Wortox and Wormwood as I can't play them. I enjoy each one of them (except Webber, his gameplay is interesting, but I don't like the character). And I have made my opinion on each of them, pre and post rework.

25 health nerf may not sound big and there's many ways to gain health, problem here is if you haven't ever played Maxwell you won't understand how much staying above a certain amount of health is valuable, sometimes you may get killed easily just because your armor broke at that moment, as Maxwell you may as well always want to be above 60 health which isn't practical as there's quite a lot of food that heal for more and he can't use these foods fully to his advantage if the excess healing goes to waste.

Do note that i am not comparing 125 to 75 health, im just saying that 25 health nerf isn't as weak as you think. I'd be fine if that was all you suggested for her nerfs though.

How is Wendy in any good spot currently? she may actually be the weakest character right now, 0.75% damage modifier is a big thing considering almost everything in the game is kiteable, how hard is this to understand? try killing dragonfly with Wendy and after that use Wolfgang or heck even use any character that has normal damage modifier and you'll see the difference. Everything you fight in DST will take longer because of that modifier and you'll have more chance of getting hit because of it, most players don't know how to kite every creature perfectly.

Wes was made to be a challange character, you shouldn't compare him to other characters and discuss why others should be changed based on him. It has nothing with people doing good or bad, it is obvious that Wes players usually do good because only good players will actually play him, i wouldn't want a new  friend that starts playing DST with me to actually pick Wes and i'd suggest WX to them and feed him gears.

Don't compare Wes to Wilson when one is made as a challange character and the other is a normal character that was made for beginners. Wilson can make meat effigy and his beard is helpful for winter, he has really solid stats as well.

Wes has 0.75% damage modifier and 1.25% hunger modifier, just stop comparing him to other characters.

You mentioned nerfs? its hardly considered nerf as more of a tweak after the release of Winona, people complained about her being too strong, so they nerfed her early game with that hunger penalty for crafting. Which is logical for them to do like they buffed Woodie as countless players including me have discussed about it on forums. Overall Winona has been buffed and you can't deny that by mentioning tweak done after a refresh which can barely be considered a nerf, honestly compared to what you are suggesting to be done to Wickerbottom, 5 hunger per craft doesn't sound bad.

Wickerbottom's books are situational, just because tentacles are strong doesn't mean they replace weapons or any use she has for melee combat, you aren't supposed to use books 24/7 for every situation you encounter with her. The reason she is strong is the number of books and all of their effects combined but why should she be nerfed when she has stayed that way for years plus klei keeps buffing refreshed characters. I want to ask if you played Woodie, if you actually have over 500 hours on DST, you'll probably agree that he is the best starting character currently. If klei is making refreshed characters that strong, i don't see what excuse they'll have for majorly nerfing any character.

 

Griefers have already done that on public klei servers just so no one can grief them or they wanted to play alone on the server. It is rare as not many people will actually put in such effort but you spawning in the mass of tentacles plus if they find any touchstone, there'll probably be more.

Its rare considering how much effort it requires but after you set it up, you basically hold the whole server hostage.

I don't consider it common place as it is rarely seen but that doesn't exclude it and  allowing Wickerbottom to target a certain location with end is nigh would just allow her to use it without any lightning protection for better griefing experience, what other reason would any Wicker player have? Using it once to power up WX or goats is all you use this book anyway and that won't kill you even without lightning protection like eyebrella.