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Terra M Welch

My concerns on a Wendy rework. As a Wendy main.

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Terra M Welch    2,581

So there's been 3 reworks so far(I don't count Warly, he's a new character to me, not a rework) and so far it seems two were just minor additions and tweaks(Winona with her catapults and hunger mechanic, Willow got fire immunity, some cold weakness and heat resistance and a better bernie) and one feels like a complete "curveball" overhaul.(Woodie, I know he was buffed recently so he's actually good now but still...)

A significant amount of the forum is saying Wendy is next, and I am concerned that Klei will throw another curveball.
Personally in my opinion all Wendy needs is a smarter(and commandable) Abigail, I feel that Wendy is good enough as is apart from Abigail being a problem on occasion. To me, this would be a change more akin to Winona and WIllow, just a minor tweak. I wouldn't mind other minor tweaks but I wouldn't want anything akin to Woodie's straight up overhaul.

But I'm worried that's what will happen with Wendy. I'd love to only see some minor QoL changes to her, but I'm worried Klei will throw the curveball again, and the way Wendy will be played will be completely changed.

Personally I would still like for Wendy to play the same as she currently does, only adding a few QoL additions to make her a bit of a better team player. Please Klei, no big overhaul curveballs, just some QoL tweaks.

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Ohan    279

hm almost everything about wendy is just abigail kinda no? i dont see how they would want to/could majorly overhaul that to something completely different. 

personally i wouldnt be opposed to more perks related to her affinity with the dead/ghosts/occult in addition to better controls for Abigail.

maybe a special telltale heart or meat effigy or a ritual she can preform to restore touch stones

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Ezaroth    1,034

inb4 Abigail's ghost looking like a banshee instead of the standard bed sheet ghost.

I don't see Winona's Catapults and BERNIE! as 'minor' tweaks though. They're new assets that makes those characters very strong.

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Viktor234    2,728
35 minutes ago, Terra M Welch said:

A significant amount of the forum is saying Wendy is next

Wes is more in need of an update than Wendy: Wendy and Wes share the same penalties but Wes got even more penalties, and playing as Wes won't make only your life harder, it will also make the life of your teammates harder. The significant amount wants to see a Wendy update because Wendy is, compared to Wes, a popular character. I see about one Wendy per Klei Official Server but not a single Wes in any Klei Official Server.

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Terra M Welch    2,581
47 minutes ago, Ohan said:

personally i wouldnt be opposed to more perks related to her affinity with the dead/ghosts/occult in addition to better controls for Abigail.

maybe a special telltale heart or meat effigy or a ritual she can preform to restore touch stones

This is what I mean by things I dont want, this I feel would change her too much... She's a mourning little girl, not an occultist.

Really it should focus on Abigail, not Wendy, Wendy is fine as is, it's just Abigail who is basically a nuisence on occasion.

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Pop Guy    3,518
1 hour ago, Terra M Welch said:

[...]

From the previous rework we can see that Klei does not intend to remove the most significant advantages of the characters. Winona, apart from a slight loss of hunger (thanks to the protests from the forum) remained with the bonus that he had before, scotch tape and faster crafting, with the addition of spotlights and catapults. Willow (again, thanks to the forum users) only got benefits from rework, keeping the lighter and the ability to cook with it. Now Woodie, the only thing he lost was the recovery of sanity by planting pine cones. It was a nice and useful thing, but I always felt it was a minor advantage of the character.
Therefore, we can hypothesize that Abigail will remain substantially as it is, with the addition of two possibilities: 1) a new form for Abigail, perhaps obtainable through some ritual. As Bernie becomes BERNIE! when Willow goes mad, I find it plausible that Wendy can choose whether to summon Abigail in different forms as needed.
Or 2) beyond Abigail, a new power tied to life and death, always the central theme of Wendy (like as being a Canadian stereotype is the theme of Woodie, or being an engineer is the theme of Winona, or being a pyromaniac is the theme of Willow ... no, this not)
In exchange for the new skills, I think Wendy will also lose one of its minor advantages, like the loss of 25% less sanity. Personally, I don't think it's serious.
In any case, it is now clear that Klei will not simply limit himself to improving Abigail's artificial intelligence or increasing its statistics. Indeed, it is likely that the basic Abigail remains unchanged.
Let's see, I'm ready to be amazed.

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Cosheeta    280

I'd say less is more, these reworks are damn complex. Not in the sense that they're hard to grasp, just that they feel cluttered and not exactly implemented in any elegant manner. I think that the new gameplay don't blend in well with other characters in the sense that you can't translate the experience learned between characters well, it's like learning a whole new meta or self-contained minigame each time. Disjointed experience.

On top of that, I also believe they are kind of rocking the pillars of thematic consistency these character's stand upon. I get the feeling the worry here is based on a thematic disturbance.

I know I've beaten this horse in just about every topic only today but, I stand by my statement, dev team seems to misunderstand where their own game came from. Shallow interpretations.

Fan-fic esque.

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sinisterrkid    527

Yeah, not all characters need a big rework, Wendy and Wickerbottom to me are the ones that could benefit from very minor tweaks. I'd love to have a craftable, expensive, Abigail armor, so that she can be just a bit more useful against bosses. And that's all. Maybe a new drawback to counter-act that perk.

Then again, what Klei did with Warly and Woodie was super unexpected and fun, so if they announce a big rework I'd be excited too.

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Terra M Welch    2,581
12 minutes ago, sinisterrkid said:

Yeah, not all characters need a big rework, Wendy and Wickerbottom to me are the ones that could benefit from very minor tweaks. I'd love to have a craftable, expensive, Abigail armor, so that she can be just a bit more useful against bosses. And that's all. Maybe a new drawback to counter-act that perk.

Then again, what Klei did with Warly and Woodie was super unexpected and fun, so if they announce a big rework I'd be excited too.

If it completely changes how Wendy is played though, I feel that would ruin Wendy completely for me.

As I said earlier, I feel her rework should be mainly Abigail focused. Wendy herself is fine.

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sinisterrkid    527
1 hour ago, Ohan said:

personally i wouldnt be opposed to more perks related to her affinity with the dead/ghosts/occult in addition to better controls for Abigail.

maybe a special telltale heart or meat effigy or a ritual she can preform to restore touch stones

I've heard some suggestions of leaving the Necromancy to Wilson and I got pretty excited about that. Especially as far as meat effigy goes, it's definitely a Wilson thing. The "standard scientist" identity was already taken by Wagstaff in single DS and also by Wickerbottom a little bit. Wilson is more of the mad scientist, Dr. Frankenstein kinda guy.

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ShadowDuelist    4,523

Agree with most opinions, Im sure they will make abigail more viable and quite possible stronger. 

At the very least you'll be able to use Wendy and Abigail the same, but possibly with better damage and commandable abigail.

Most likely though, as @Pop Guy suggested, they will add ways to buff abigail even further should you choose to, but not in a way that playing her will feel like a different character. The devs are being very careful at that. They take the fundamentals of what we have, and make it better.

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fimmatek    3,459

As a Wendy main with a 4k+ world with her I fully agree that she only needs some minor tweaks, but her gameplay is really good already. 

Abigail indeed could use a better AI, if she would quit combat faster when Wendy is far that would help a lot. Personally I'd rather make her more clever, but not (necessarily) more controllable. She is a character with own personality, emotions (and stupid mistakes :D ) just like the others, not just a minion who does tasks mindlessly, at least from a lore perspective. 

I honestly don't know how I feel about a whole overhaul. I really like her as she is right now, so I'm a bit afraid of a new Wendy... but who knows, maybe the devs can come up with some tweaks and additions that don't change her playstyle too much.

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Zeklo    17,541

Eh. This sorta thing was kinda covered in another thread. Can small number tweaks/general changes make certain characters more viable? In some cases.

But Klei seems to be trying to make characters fresh & flashy, and I support that. I used to play Wendy a lot but Willow's rework made her similar to the summoner playstyle that I liked. It's true Abigail is more of an AoE thing but even then they're a bit lackluster now.

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Mattyington    636
4 hours ago, Terra M Welch said:

Wendy herself is fine.

I mean, to be completely fair, Wendy's only perks that are not tied to Abigail are losing less sanity and not hitting hard, IIRC. I think adding something new to her wouldn't be so bad, although I certainly don't want her to be able to make a necronomicon and summons brown coats to fight for her or something.

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Well-met    1,388

every single rework so far has had massive changes and new entities/prefabs. I fear Wendy won't be an exception.

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Terra M Welch    2,581
16 minutes ago, Well-met said:

every single rework so far has had massive changes and new entities/prefabs. I fear Wendy won't be an exception.

But at least Winona and Willow do not play TOO differently, it's more they have little additional advantages, and their drawbacks hardly change much.

Woodie on the other hand I feel was a complete change in terms of play style.

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Canis    9,991

Im just gonna tell you right now.

Clench your buttcheeks and accept change, or you will be disappointed.

I'm super bummed that the Werebeaver isn't unique anymore, but Im starting to (slowly) warm up to it.

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fimmatek    3,459
11 minutes ago, Canis said:

I'm super bummed that the Werebeaver isn't unique anymore, but Im starting to (slowly) warm up to it.

What do you mean by "the Werebeaver isn't unique"? That it's not the only were-form Woodie can transform into?

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First off, I do not think I have over 8 minutes of Wendy gameplay in, but I have played with many friends who are Wendys (like almost 40% of my gameplay time, she seems to be a somewhat popular main). I kinda agree that she doesn't need too much to make her good (I've seen what abi does to shadow splumonkeys). I do feel like her gameplay is kinda... Dull? Maybe? It's like she has one job (crowd control) and she does it well. This isn't necessarily a problem. In fact just from an outsiders perspective, she is pretty close to balanced (prerework sense). If klei were to rework her, I don't think they would get rid of abagail's viability, but rather add to Wendy's toolbox of tricks. Woodie was probably just an odd exception because compared to other characters he honestly had too much to manage (beaverness meter and high sanity drain beaver). Wendy doesn't have too much to manage aside from the state of Abagail. So, this leads me to believe Wendy's rework will be more similar to Willow's than Woodie's.

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