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Woodie is still "Meh": An Initial Evaluation


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6 minutes ago, Bird Up said:

Beaver form is pretty great now that he doesn't need to eat logs, and treeguards spawn more often, no issues there.

Seeing a lot of people mixing this up so worth nothing:

23 hours ago, JoeW said:
  • Woodie has a 50% higher chance to spawn Treeguards and Poison Birchnut Trees.
  • Werebeaver no longer spawns Treeguards and Poison Birchnut Trees

Woodie (no transformations) spawns more treeguards.
Beaver doesn't.

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Might be a stupid idea but what if there were additional tiers to his idols. The one we have now is tier 1, and are cheap but don't last long. But there could be a tier 2,3 idols that are more expensive but last longer/and or have better stats on their respective wereforms, like speed, damage, new abilities/properties. 

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Saying woodie is "still" meh implies he's the same as he was before.  I honestly think he's worse than he was before.  30 health and 3 monster meat for a barely 1 minute transformation is a bad tradeoff unless you really need werebeaver to gnaw something you can't chop.

Moose and Goose have no realistic use cases.  Goose doesn't last long enough for a travel form and Moose is underwhelming at combat.

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4 hours ago, Canis said:

Also, the Werebeaver's weremeter drains slower if the beaver attacks things, which is an unintended feature, Im guessing.

He has to gnaw something to maintain his form: Trees, rocks, deerclops, your base

4 hours ago, Canis said:

which means that he is going to either soak up damage, or waste weremeter kiting.

you have abot 5 secs between attacks before fast draining. Also you have to deal or recieve damage to maintain this form. Also Woodie gains infinite hambat and wooden armor and charge that can just steamroll toad rain. More than enough for a good fight. Also you can play with wortox/heal between trasformations/use jellybeans, which is bugged and doubles heal amount after each transformation making you immortal on 2nd idol

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Alright, I'm sorry that I'm late to the party guys. But, I'll let y'all know what I think aboot this here update.

 

Woodie the Human: The fact that he no longer has a beaverness meter to fill is just golden, like, amazing. I don't have to go gnaw down a whole forest or eat 7 logs every 5 days just to prevent myself from devolving into chaos. I'm actually okay with the pinecone sanity going away. I'm sure it might hurt some people who have become dependent on it. But, there are plenty more ways to get sanity in the game. Also, Woodie gets more treeguards in human form. Actually a buff to me... You see... Treeguards are actually very good pig/bunnymen farm maintainers. They basically run the thing for me. Also enough treeguards can kill of deerclops for you without any hastle. And as a Woodie main I used to have enough of it... (Beaverness meter of death...) So all in all, I would say that human Woodie was actually buffed. I would call him above Wilson tier in human abilties, but I would still place him below Maxwell in chopping power. Unless he is on sweets or something.

 

Woodie the Goose/Moose: I actually really like these ideas on paper. In certain aspects I would say they deliver, but in others I would say they fall short. 

Moose: The idea of Woodie being a fighter is very cool, and in some ways it works out with moose. But, there are just aspects of it that just make it kind of obsolete, ya know? First off the damage done per swing is only 59.5 which is a more than what singleplayer beaver could do (which was only 51 I believe), but not considerably, and considering that singleplayer beaver could heal using logs and moose basically can't heal at all. It just doesn't really work that well. Unlike in human form, moose is forced to tank because any time not hitting is wasted meter time. The movement penalty doesn't really help out either if you are kiting. There is one saving grace of the moose though. His charge attack. This thing is very satisfying to use and is effective on smaller mobs like spiders and bees which require two tramples to kill. AOE like this is only matched by Abagail and boss monsters. But both Abagail and boss monsters can do it much longer than moose. My suggestions specifically for moose would be to increase his damage resistance to 90% and/or increase his damage to 75 ish. 

 

Goose: Scouting as Woodie is actually not a new idea. Beaverscouting was a thing before this update. Goose I feel is supposed to be the new version of beaverscouting. But there is a fundamental problem, you could effectively do it forever as beaver until the elements killed you or you messed up on your kiting with the shadow creatures. Moose gets 75 seconds of fast speeds. While the increased speed is a step in the right direction of scout, the problem is the time limit. I don't think it really should exist. If you are afraid people could abuse this to stay alive until winter, don't be put off, you could do the exact same thing as beaver preupdate, but be able to gnaw objects and attack. Goose can't attack or gnaw, but it lasts almost infinitely shorter because it is... Faster... There's only one thing that would make goose really viable as a scout. And that is to increase the time given or let it regenerate as apposed to stall whenever the goose is running. I really like the idea of a scout, but the timer isn't giving the player time to scout. I know you could technically just spam monster meat or totems to stay in form, but you'll eventually run out of health. And the time spent transforming back and forth will allow the terrorbeaks to catch up to you.

 

Woodie the Beaver: Beaver is.... Actually pretty good, but still not what I would consider to be its best version. He doesn't get treeguards which is AMAZING whenever you DON'T want to get treeguards. His sanity drain is also lessened, so you can gnaw for much longer. I still think Woodie should be the best lumberjack, but if his other two forms get buffed/fixed then I don't think he has to be. I still would do 1 gnaw or no gnaw stumps. And picking up the wood is still an issue. Though there is a problem.....

 

Woodie with problems: The BIGGEST issue with all of this is the returning to zero hunger upon transforming back. If you are weakened for any reason during a form, you will be instantly killed when you transform back. I don't know why it would even consume the hunger bar in the first place. It's already taken health and a lot of sanity. Why take this too? It's not like he's one hitting a boss or anything. If his forms were ridiculously OP I could understand this, but... They're not. Though we don't need OP forms to have a good Woodie. But his survivability will go way down if this stays (even lower than before). Also the health requirement for the forms is a bit high if you use totems to do it over and over again. This wouldn't be an issue if the forms lasted longer than they do. Which is another thing that I would do around the board.

BUT all things considered; I like this update. I like it's flavor. It just doesn't have enough juicy to make certain aspects... Viable. Even as a joke or for fun. But I don't doubt for a second that something will be done (The forum has exploded already). I would like to just give some constructive feedback to the klei team. Thanks for the update by the way. 

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1 minute ago, SonicDen220 said:

You know a character isn't good if he fails the point of the game and it's not even the player's fault.

 

Don't Starve.

And yet here he ends up starving as soon as any transformation is over.

It's "Don't Starve" as in "don't die of starvation", not "don't ever reach 0 hunger". It can even be beneficial to hang around at 0 hunger for a bit in certain situations, though it's used as a punishment here.

Woodie doesn't starve to death instantly when a transformation ends, he's just put at 0 hunger. Unless you're really indecisive about the food you want to eat, you're only going to lose 1-3 health in the time it takes you to right click a single berry or seed or carrot in your inventory.

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I think the only thing I’d say about this is that it would be better if you could choose which form you can use through your entire DST play through instead of being able to use them all. Maybe all of them would have exclusive benefits if you chose the 1 instead of going with the broad spectrum of them. I’d probably choose moose mode and give all my least favorite mobs a good thrashing to be honest.

maybe if somebody wants to be the goose (not sure why) they get a whole bunch of speed and agility related attacks, can swim or fly across to areas on the map they’ve been to as a result of sticking with just the goose.

 

beaver? Beats me with the beaver, never did really care for the old beaver so I’d say do whatever with it?

The only things I’d like to see come with these forms if they get tweaked.

i like them a lot! The shapeshifter dynamic is hecking awesome sounding and I ain’t turning a cold shoulder to the moose and the goose!

but they do need some good buffs cause I don’t think they’ll last long after all the hype has passed. I have to be honest with myself when it comes to that.

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With the Weremoose's charge attack and a bundling wrap full of moose idols, Woodie has joined the ranks of the relatively few characters who can safely solo a Day 100+ hound wave on his own, far away from friendly mobs or traps (others were Wendy with Abigail, Webber with spider eggs, Wortox by soul hopping out of aggro and then returning to engage hounds 1v1, and Wormwood with a football helmet and bramble husk; might be possible to do it with Maxwell's minions, but it would require some complicated finagling with /dance to manipulate them in high-stress situations)

That's the only thing that I'm stoked about though. Overall this rework seems like a net loss of content because all three of Woodie's were-forms are too situational to see frequent use, including the beaver. It's especially sad since it's clear that Klei put all their heart into this, with so many new animations and mechanics and Hoedown theme variations specific to each form. I hope that he can be re-tuned to Woodie mains' satisfaction.

The Weregoose is a little odd lore-wise, though. Hatred of birds has always been one of Woodie's most consistent character traits. Is the poor man going to have an existential crisis?

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4 minutes ago, Swanky Psammead said:

The Weregoose is a little odd lore-wise, though.

Or is it the answer?

Between turning into a boxing moose, voracious beaver, or just a goose that runs and can't even fight back.
I too would begin to not like birds.

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7 minutes ago, Zeklo said:

Or is it the answer?

Between turning into a boxing moose, voracious beaver, or just a goose that runs and can't even fight back.
I too would begin to not like birds.

I hope when Woodie turns into weregoose he doesn't change his gender.

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On 9/12/2019 at 6:03 PM, Ermac__ said:

Might be a stupid idea but what if there were additional tiers to his idols. The one we have now is tier 1, and are cheap but don't last long. But there could be a tier 2,3 idols that are more expensive but last longer/and or have better stats on their respective wereforms, like speed, damage, new abilities/properties. 

I was thinking something similar which would help his late game scale. Perhaps even just adding 1-2 livinlogs to the recipe for an alternate idol which lasts 100-120s.

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So if you didn't see already, a patch came out which buffed Woodie. Im actually very very pleased as it implemented some of the ideas that I have stated here.

The only real problems that I still have is the fact that they didn't talk about the mechanic of Woodie's hunger meter going to 0 after reverting. Personally, I think it should revert to 5 or something so you can avoid starvation damage.

In addition, im still 100% for living logs being needed to craft idols.

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17 hours ago, Canis said:

So if you didn't see already, a patch came out which buffed Woodie. Im actually very very pleased as it implemented some of the ideas that I have stated here.

The only real problems that I still have is the fact that they didn't talk about the mechanic of Woodie's hunger meter going to 0 after reverting. Personally, I think it should revert to 5 or something so you can avoid starvation damage.

In addition, im still 100% for living logs being needed to craft idols.

They listened to the public or whoever it was about the water walking goose, so there’s a easy plus, the duration of the forms as well...I’d say these buffs are pretty good. Not sure about living logs for idols but-id be up for something to really increase the forms longevity per use if the did use living logs. They ain’t cheap nor easy to farm.

 

id be all for having the forms eat respective foods to keep them working.

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