Canis

Woodie is still "Meh": An Initial Evaluation

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Zeklo    17,381
6 minutes ago, FreyaMaluk said:

also gnaing while mining a boulder needs to get updated... it takes 18 gnaws for a boulder vs 6 hits from pickaxe... that's a bit nonsensical

I mean. Beavers bite wood, not rock. Seems plenty sensical to me. 

5 minutes ago, Pruinae said:

What I dislike about the Woodie rework is that, even though he is great at doing a bunch of things now, there are characters that are better at doing those specific things and they end up doing those things for cheaper if they are doing the specified task for longer. 

Sure, but Woodie is 3 in 1. He can't be the best when he has such a range of things he can do—this makes him (in theory) a good singleplayer pick, but less great for multiplayer where you can have one of each anyway.

Not to mention that Wolfgang (the combat focus), Maxwell (the harvest focus), and the other "meta" picks for certain tasks are gonna get reworked so comparing them in the state they are doesn't make so much sense.

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SouthTom    286
10 minutes ago, Pruinae said:


Werebeaver - Isn't it still worse than Maxwell? May even be more expensive since Woodie will have to recharge his stats from time to time. You could argue that Treeguards will slow Maxwell down,
 

While you're kiting the Treeguard in a forest your puppets continue to chop down trees around, so you're not even slowed down that much.

Edited by SouthTom
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maciu67    359
9 minutes ago, Mario384 said:

Wew.  After playing around with it, all I can say is:

This is bad.

I can't believe the werebeaver is worse than was before rework!

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Pruinae    1,275
8 minutes ago, Zeklo said:

Sure, but Woodie is 3 in 1. He can't be the best when he has such a range of things he can do—this makes him (in theory) a good singleplayer pick, but less great for multiplayer where you can have one of each anyway.

After you have acess to the Celestial Portal there's kind of no reason to play Woodie at all. And I could argue Wickerbottom is a better pick before getting acess to the portal (But that is a whole other can of worms).

8 minutes ago, Zeklo said:

Not to mention that Wolfgang (the combat focus), Maxwell (the harvest focus), and the other "meta" picks for certain tasks are gonna get reworked so comparing them in the state they are doesn't make so much sense.

If they rework those characters for the worse, what's the point?
But yes, I can see Maxwell and WX being reworked to focus on different tasks.

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Zeklo    17,381
19 minutes ago, Pruinae said:

After you have acess to the Celestial Portal there's kind of no reason to play Woodie at all. And I could argue Wickerbottom is a better pick before getting acess to the portal (But that is a whole other can of worms).

The Celestial Portal is gross and I hope they never try to balance around it.
If people wanna use it to meta-game—try-hard the game then they can do that.

Edited by Zeklo
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Zeklo    17,381
31 minutes ago, ShadowDuelist said:

I think each transformation requires its own duration depending on their usefulness, and the way you stay in the shape should be more rewarding:

This is actually more or less how it already works.

Beaver - 15 seconds, chopping decreases drain time. 45-75 seconds.

Moose - 15 seconds, combat decreases drain time. 45-90 seconds.

Goose - 12 seconds, moving decreases drain time. 60 seconds.

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iaregravy    3

First post, but I do have 450 hours in game. My opinion is that the devs shouldn't be afraid to make characters a bit more overpowered in general. As it currently stands there a strong difference in the S tier characters, and I for one would have the most fun if they just brought all the characters (except wes) up to the power level of wolf, wx, etc. 

In regards to Woodie specifically, each form needs to be stronger than the equipment slots he's losing. A Woodie with a dark sword and a football helmet is stronger than the moose, and that's not good. Give him buffs in his form duration, move speed, AND damage in my opinion. The fact that he can not access healing foods in his transformation is already more than enough to counter if he had something like dark sword damage. Goose needs to at the very least be faster than Woodie with a magi and a cane. 

TL:DR I would prefer if his forms were just immensely powerful, it's not a competitive game so being overpowered is fine. The goal should be that people are playing characters based on flavor, but they're all incredibly strong

Edited by iaregravy
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Canis    9,038
1 minute ago, Zeklo said:

This is actually more or less how it already works.

Beaver - 15 seconds, chopping decreases drain time. 45-75 seconds.

Moose - 15 seconds, combat decreases drain time. 45-90 seconds.

Goose - 12 seconds, moving decreases drain time. 60 seconds.

Im pretty sure the mechanics leaked into other forms. When I attack as a Werebeaver, the weremeter slows down.

Edited by Canis
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Pruinae    1,275
14 minutes ago, Zeklo said:

The Celestial Portal is gross and I hope they never try to balance around it.
If people wanna use it to meta-game, try-hard the game then they can do that.

It's fine you think that, but it is the way I like to play the game. And, from my point of view, they shouldn't disconsider the portal when making decisions, they can't (shouldn't) just pretend it never happened (I do agree to nerfing it though (even if my dumb "gate-keeping" side made me reset my world since I was abusing the pre-nerfed portal mybrainisweirddude)). 

I think all points of view are valid in the sense that Klei can have more info to decide what their next action should be.

Edited by Pruinae
I didn't think that word was offensive enough to be censured lol
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ShadowDuelist    4,206
6 minutes ago, Zeklo said:

This is actually more or less how it already works.

Beaver - 15 seconds, chopping decreases drain time. 45-75 seconds.

Moose - 15 seconds, combat decreases drain time. 45-90 seconds.

Goose - 12 seconds, moving decreases drain time. 60 seconds.

I've noticed this as well. But I mean, they should be noticeably different in mechanics, as I said previously, goose should probably last the longest by just running. 

And unlike goose, both beaver and moose should have ways to regain their meters if they do what they are meant to, otherwise, default timers should take place. If this becomes true, it will be harder (and more rewarding) to stay as moose, than as beaver, and beaver will be harder to maintain but more rewarding than goose. Goose being the easiest but the less rewarding one.

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Butt Pillow    196
2 minutes ago, Pruinae said:

It's fine you think that, but it is the way I like to play the game. And, from my point of view, they shouldn't disconsider the portal when making decisions, they can't (shouldn't) just pretend it never happened (I do agree to nerfing it though (even if my dumb "gate-keeping" side made me reset my world since I was abusing the pre-nerfed portal mybrainisweirddude)). 

I think all points of view are valid in the sense that Klei can have more info to decide what their next action should be.

I agree the portal should be considered somewhere, but from a baseline of game balance I feel as though it should not be considered in the games balance IMO. It's both far too lategame-ish and breaks the games balance pretty hard. The portal feels like it much more of a experienced players perk rather than something for the game as a whole, which is fine.

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Zeklo    17,381
2 minutes ago, ShadowDuelist said:

I've noticed this as well. But I mean, they should be noticeably different in mechanics, as I said previously, goose should probably last the longest by just running. 

And unlike goose, both beaver and moose should have ways to regain their meters if they do what they are meant to, otherwise, default timers should take place. If this becomes true, it will be harder (and more rewarding) to stay as moose, than as beaver, and beaver will be harder to maintain but more rewarding than goose. Goose being the easiest but the less rewarding one.

Moose's speed also makes it incredibly annoying, because the strong drain kicks in immediately and you can lose a bunch of time if you don't land a hit in like... immediately after transforming.

Oh, and the grace-period between hits is a bit finicky so kiting/charging can end up eating through a lot of time.

Edited by Zeklo
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ShadowDuelist    4,206
Just now, Zeklo said:

Moose's speed also makes it incredibly annoying, because the strong drain kicks in immediately and you can lose a bunch of time if you don't land a hit in like... immediately after transforming.

Agreed, maybe it could have a grace time as soon as you transformed, of at least 2 seconds, before the drain kicks in. The grace before the strong drain kicks in should be balanced according to the transformation as well.

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maciu67    359
15 minutes ago, Well-met said:

Moose has real good potential, Goose is a joke. Just use a cane.

Yes charge attack is something really new. Goose is as useless as it looks.

Edited by maciu67
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Bird Up    723

Moose form will be useful in the early days, but its usefulness falls off pretty quickly. Moose deals about 59 damage (roughly hambat) with 80% dmg reduction (football helmet). Woodie is a character who can get loads of living logs now, so dark swords make sense, and with a football helm it'd be better than Moose form. You don't need to lose 30 hp and starve if you just use darksword/football helm. The offensive form also cannot heal itself or use any inventory items making it less appealing than just using regular Woodie for offense. The Goose form would be nice if it could pick up items, but it can't, so it's solely for transportation which isn't too great. Beaver form is pretty great now that he doesn't need to eat logs, and treeguards spawn more often, no issues there. Overall he's a good character, but I don't like how moose and goose are so niche.

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