Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Please be aware that the content of this thread may be outdated and no longer applicable.

Canis

Woodie is still "Meh": An Initial Evaluation

Recommended Posts

Canis    10,055

So, after spending a solid 30 minutes trying out the new mechanics and transformations, I'm a bit let down, to be fair. 

 

Werebeaver:

The beaver now does it's job well. Since it does it's job so fast, you can easily amass a hundred logs with one or two idols, granted you're in a dense forest. 

Also, the Werebeaver's weremeter drains slower if the beaver attacks things, which is an unintended feature, Im guessing.

Problem: None

Potential Solution: n/a, the Beaver is the only transformation that I'm 100% happy with.

 

Weregoose:

The most disappointing mechanic. The only thing it can do is run. No flying, no swimming. Just run at around the same speed as Overcharged WX (150% speed) with a walking cane (apparently the goose runs at 140% speed, I myself haven't tested this.) I'd say, the best way to move this out of mediocrity is to give it the ability to swim. That way, it can be used in all stages of the game.

Problem: Mediocre transformation

Potential Solution: Give it the ability to swim, to expand it's usefulness so it has more uses, and so it doesn't become obsolete in mid-late game.

 

Weremoose:

While yes, having damage around the same place as the Hambat is cool and all, he's slow, which means that he is going to either soak up damage, or waste weremeter kiting. Also, using the idol for this is counter-intuitive if you want to tank, because the idol itself takes away 30 health upon use. In addition, since you can go from 100 weremeter to 0 in a span of 30 seconds even while constantly attacking, meaning that, if you're fighting a boss, you have to use SEVERAL IDOLS, which are 30 health a pop, mind you. 

Problem: Idol use is counter-intuitive as it drains HP. Tanking is seemingly the intended use, however the Weremoose only has (what it seems to be) 80% protection. The transformation duration is too short to efficiently utilize.

Potential Solution: Raise the Damage Resistance to 90%. Increase the Transformation duration for the Weremoose so it can be utilized in more combat situations, such as bosses.

 

The Idols:

The idols have a penalty of 30 HP and 20 sanity. If you want to continually use idols over and over (for example: the Moose idol in a boss fight), you're going to quickly kill yourself. This wouldn't be so much of a problem if the transformations weren't so short in duration. 

Another problem that they have is that they are dirt cheap. Seriously, you could mass-produce them before day 5. If we look at the idols with the intended use of "Risk/Reward items" then that's completely out of wack.

Problem: The idols seem to have a lackluster risk/reward balance. In addition, they are EXTREMELY cheap.

Potential Solution: Increase the duration for wereforms if activated by an idol, and/or lower the HP penalty (15?), In addition, add 1 Living Log to each Idol's crafting recipe, which goes well with Woodie's increased chance of treeguards. (It also motivates him to go chopping)

 

As much as it pains me to say this, as a Woodie main, I'm more or less disappointed with Woodie. His lackluster abilities, while good in some situations, are extremely niche and will 100% be overshadowed after mid-game, which isn't something a character perk should be. Overall, we're experiencing some bad deja-vu.

 

Edit: this post on the DS/T discord just about sums up this entire situation.
image.png.31e5ad59fb4818f1c234b542ad93899a.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
FreyaMaluk    5,033

goose needs to fly... or swim... locomotion needs to make sense

moose needs hp regeneration or means to passively gain some

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pop Guy    3,526
4 minutes ago, Canis said:

[...]

As much as it pains me to say this, as a Woodie main, I'm more or less disappointed with Woodie. His lackluster abilities, while good in some situations, are extremely niche and will 100% be overshadowed after mid-game, which isn't something a character perk should be. Overall, we're experiencing some bad deja-vu.

Resigned Canis.

Not everyone is destined for great things in this world. Woodie was obviously not among them.


Fortunately I'm main Wendy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
FreyaMaluk    5,033
Just now, Pop Guy said:

Resigned Canis.

Not everyone is destined for great things in this world. Woodie was obviously not among them.


Fortunately I'm main Wendy.

he is gonna get tuned soon... we just need to give compelling data and evidence for a change..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Canis    10,055
2 minutes ago, Pop Guy said:

Resigned Canis.

Not everyone is destined for great things in this world. Woodie was obviously not among them.


Fortunately I'm main Wendy.

No. Absolutely not.

I am among the small group of people that have been waiting for this day with baited breath for years, so I have every single right to say that he's bad, and to urge Klei to make him a good character.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pop Guy    3,526
Just now, FreyaMaluk said:

he is gonna get tuned soon... we just need to give compelling data and evidence for a change..

Hi Freya! I'm happy to see you back!
However I fear that Klei will not intend to change Woodie... in order for obtained Willow's fire immunity we had to "set fire" to the forum for weeks :'D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Canis    10,055
Just now, Pop Guy said:

Hi Freya! I'm happy to see you back!
However I fear that Klei will not intend to change Woodie... in order for obtained Willow's fire immunity we had to "set fire" to the forum for weeks :'D

That's exactly what I'm going to do, god dammit. I refuse to settle for a "meh" character after waiting a long time to see otherwise.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pop Guy    3,526
1 minute ago, Canis said:

No. Absolutely not.

I am among the small group of people that have been waiting for this day with baited breath for years, so I have every single right to say that he's bad, and to urge Klei to make him a good character.

Then let's start to prepare the protest: if we want Klei to change his mind we will have to flood the forum of discussions on Woodie, polls and memes. Ready to fight, soldier? :'D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SouthTom    296
11 minutes ago, Canis said:

Weregoose:

 

The most disappointing, in my opinion. The only thing it can do is run. No flying, no swimming. Just run at around the same speed as Overcharged WX with a walking cane (im eyeballing it.) I'd say, the best way to move this out of mediocrity is to give it the ability to swim. That way, it can be used in all stages of the game.

Problem: Mediocre transformation

Potential Solution: Give it the ability to swim, to expand it's usefulness so it has more uses, and so it doesn't become obsolete in mid-late game.

It also needs to last way longer. 60 sec of extra speed is really not worth 30 hp and all your hunger.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
YouKnowWho    7,643
10 minutes ago, FreyaMaluk said:

moose needs hp regeneration or means to passively gain some

This is actually a pretty fantastic idea. I mean, Wilba has it, why can’t woodie?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sivdun    210

Transformations are too short in my opinion. Swimming for goose would be neat I like that idea. But I don't understand why Klei came up with limited time and sanity drain drawback at the same time, it doesn't make sense to punish player in two ways on top of losing health and sanity at the start. If Wilba will be ever added she will overshadow Woodie really hard.

What I want to add is increase timer to each transformation if player is doing what they suppose to do with said transformation.

M00se: You fight? You get extra transformation points everytime you deal dmg to enemies and it slows down the drain or even stops it for a few seconds. If you want to turn back just stay away from fighting and let the drain reach max and turn you back.

Goose: You run around? You gain transformation points every sec you run around and it slows down the drain or even stops it for a few seconds. If you want to turn back just stay in place for a while and let the drain reach max and turn you back.

Beaver: You chop trees, dig? You gain transformation points every tree you chop down, rock you mine, grass you dig etc. and it slows down the drain or even stops it for a few seconds. If you want to turn back just stop working and let the drain reach max and turn you back.

Sanity drain already prevents you from being in transformation forever so I think this is a good idea.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
FreyaMaluk    5,033
9 minutes ago, Canis said:

That's exactly what I'm going to do, god dammit. I refuse to settle for a "meh" character after waiting a long time to see otherwise.

right there with you brother.... meh doesn't cut it tbh

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SouthTom    296
2 minutes ago, YouKnowWho said:

This is actually a pretty fantastic idea. I mean, Wilba has it, why can’t woodie?

Maybe they don't want them to be too similar so that when they port Wilba from Hamlet (crossing my fingers!) she's still "unique".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
FreyaMaluk    5,033
28 minutes ago, SouthTom said:

Maybe they don't want them to be too similar so that when they port Wilba from Hamlet (crossing my fingers!) she's still "unique".

i don't see why they should port her tbh... she is cool and all but she doesn't bring anything particular cool to the table except for the fact that she is what Woodie was supposed to be in the first place 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MilesUpshore    200

the weregoose took me by surprise but all it does so far is running, I suddenly thought of an idea that weregoose should be able to attack enemies (like geese in real life) but it might take away from its initial purpose of being uh...fast

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sunset Skye    6,070
27 minutes ago, Canis said:

So, after spending a solid 30 minutes trying out the new mechanics and transformations,

...
As much as it pains me to say this, as a Woodie main, I'm more or less disappointed with Woodie. His lackluster abilities, while good in some situations, are extremely niche and will 100% be overshadowed after mid-game

...You spent half an hour in a test world and you've already formed your opinion on the entire rework? At least play him for a bit in a real world before making claims that his abilities are overshadowed in the late-game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
minespatch    64,091
3 minutes ago, FreyaMaluk said:

i don't see why they should port her tbh... she is cool and all but she doesn't bring anything perticular cool to the table except for the fat that she is what woodie is supposed to be... 

She's like the unholy love child between Webber and Woodie.:wilson_ecstatic:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Canis    10,055
1 minute ago, Sunset Skye said:

...You spent half an hour in a test world and you've already formed your opinion on the entire rework? At least play him for a bit in a real world before making claims that his abilities are overshadowed in the late-game.

What do you think I've *been* doing?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Zeklo    17,562
34 minutes ago, Canis said:

So, after spending a solid 30 minutes trying out the new mechanics and transformations, I'm a bit let down, to be fair. 

Ok, but like 30 minutes is actually nothing when a full year is like 6.5 hours. 

34 minutes ago, Canis said:

Weregoose:

The most disappointing mechanic. The only thing it can do is run. No flying, no swimming. Just run at around the same speed as Overcharged WX with a walking cane (im eyeballing it.)

Potential Solution: Give it the ability to swim, to expand it's usefulness so it has more uses, and so it doesn't become obsolete in mid-late game.

...What's the issue exactly? If it's a speed that can't be achieved without character specific traits then that's good...? I mean, I'd like to swim too just not sure about this nitpick here.

 

The only real thing I agree on is that the transformation's short duration makes no sense with the self-harm the idols cause.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Crimson Chin    487
Just now, Sunset Skye said:

...You spent half an hour in a test world and you've already formed your opinion on the entire rework? At least play him for a bit in a real world before making claims that his abilities are overshadowed in the late-game.

I mean, some of these issues can be spotted in almost seconds. They are way too short and will obviously become irrelevant quickly. The instant starvation is also a bummer. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Canis    10,055
2 minutes ago, Zeklo said:

Ok, but like 30 minutes is actually nothing when a full year is like 6.5 hours. 

...What's the issue exactly? If it's a speed that can't be achieved without character specific traits then that's good...? I mean, I'd like too swim to just not sure about this nitpick here.

 

The only real thing I agree on is that the transformation's short duration makes no sense with the self-harm the idols cause.

The issue is that the Goose is severely lackluster. Even if it's speed can only be matched by either late-game items or another character, both of the latter can also do *LITERALLY ANY OTHER ACTION*, while the Goose can *ONLY* run. At the very least, make it able to swim, or fly above water.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sunset Skye    6,070
2 minutes ago, Canis said:

What do you think I've *been* doing?

If you've been doing this in a real world, it's arguably worse to form an opinion so quickly, because you aren't even be able to spawn in things and test the transformations in a variety of situations. It means you've only experienced 30 minutes of the very early game or 30 minutes of the late-game. That's not even 10 minutes with each transformation, considering you have to take the time to craft the idols.

2 minutes ago, Crimson Chin said:

I mean, some of these issues can be spotted in almost seconds. They are way too short and will obviously become irrelevant quickly. The instant starvation is also a bummer. 

Instant starvation is a slight annoyance, but it's still just hunger. That's never been hard to come by, especially for a character who can eat any food.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites