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Steve Raptor

TIP: Assign one material type to a single container.

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Steve Raptor    210

So I started noticing some weird and really annoying behavior after launch.

After my base grows in size and the amount of gathered materials increases, dupes start to be very inefficient with supplying and picking up resources.

For example I had building projects that took very long time because dupes would go and deliver materials in very small amounts instead in one go.

I had a 23 strength dupe that carried materials in 100-200 kg amounts and sometimes I saw dupes carrying even milligrams...

Long story short, this is due to dupes logic when taking stuff from containers.

If you have 1 container with 20t of granite and 1 container with 19.9t of random stuff and 0.01t of granite then the dupe will pick that 0.01t granite and carry it all the way to the construction zone, they won't go and and pick the proper amount from the 20t granite container.

I decided to look at this behavior closely, and I created a build order for a granite temp-shift plate and I assigned the building order to a single dupe (I disabled building for everyone else) and this is what I observed:

1) Dupe goes to mixed container that had a large amount of random resources and less then 800kg of granite, he picked ~100kg and run to deliver, he doesn't go to a container with 20t of granite.

2) Meanwhile, another dupe picked some granite from another container and filled up the one that was just used by the builder.

3) Builder comes back to the same container (Which was re-filled with another ~100kg of granite), picks another 100kg of granite and runs to deliver.

4) Loop goes on, building projects take forever to complete.

Its an annoying micro-management but by setting containers for individual resources (e.g. container for granite only) solved this problem and dupes perform supply/delivery/tidying task at maximum efficiency.

Its strange because I don't recall this issue happening pre-launch.

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mathmanican    2,346
2 hours ago, Steve Raptor said:

Its an annoying micro-management

Did you also test this against the "store all stuff in one tile with a chute or automated dispenser" solution? The mass deleted above 100kg 100t rule does not apply to most things stored this way (lumber is one big exception). 

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Steve Raptor    210
30 minutes ago, mathmanican said:

Did you also test this against the "store all stuff in one tile with a chute or automated dispenser" solution? The mass deleted above 100kg rule does not apply to most things stored this way (lumber is one big exception). 

I did not.

Can you elaborate? If you dump everything into one tile, won't the duplicants try endless to re-fill the dispenser and create an endless loop?

 

EDIT: do you assign it to sweep only to avoid the loop?

 

EDIT2: I see, thanks...Its time for me to move to "quantum storage" solution...

Does storing everything into one tile affects FPS/performance?

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Majestix    250
1 hour ago, mathmanican said:

Did you also test this against the "store all stuff in one tile with a chute or automated dispenser" solution? The mass deleted above 100kg rule does not apply to most things stored this way (lumber is one big exception). 

Can you elaborate on the last sentence? I have been dumping all my lumber onto one tile to be picked up by a sweeper that serves 4 ethanol distilleries. Should I not be doing that? Am I somehow deleting lumber that way? When I hover over with the mouse, it tells me that there is almost 100t there, which sounds about right.

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mathmanican    2,346
3 minutes ago, Majestix said:

100t there

I misspoke.  It is 100t, not 100kg (edited and fixed). Once your lumber reaches 100t, any excess lumber added will be deleted. It occurs in a few other places as well.  Do a search for "lumber 100t deleted" and you should find some threads on the topic.  You're probably better storing your lumber in several compactors, if you know you'll go above 100t. 

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Majestix    250
2 minutes ago, mathmanican said:

I misspoke.  It is 100t, not 100kg (edited and fixed). Once your lumber reaches 100t, any excess lumber added will be deleted. It occurs in a few other places as well.  Do a search for "lumber 100t deleted" and you should find some threads on the topic.  You're probably better storing your lumber in several compactors, if you know you'll go above 100t. 

Holy ****. Thanks! I am pretty sure that I have already lost a few dozen t this way. That actually explains things. I was wondering at one point whether all my geysers had been dormant at once and the ethanol -> power chain had kicked in big time, or why else I had suddenly burned through so much lumber so quickly. I even hired a few pips to plant a few more trees, but probably all it was was that I had just given a large sweep order.

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peachkillu    17

I wounded if it matters where the container is are they grabbing from the closest container or are they specifically going for the container with the least amount in it 

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nakomaru    1,431

When a dupe selects a supply errand to fulfill, they will grab the material closest to them (at the time of selecting the errand), and several other nearby piles if applicable. In other words they don't care about how close the material is to its destination, or its mass.

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peachkillu    17
1 hour ago, nakomaru said:

When a dupe selects a supply errand to fulfill, they will grab the material closest to them (at the time of selecting the errand), and several other nearby piles if applicable. In other words they don't care about how close the material is to its destination, or its mass.

So if you were to set up a storage room you could have a bunch of compactors with random crap and then a few compactors at a higher priority and only one material each as long as they were the closest to the entrance 

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MorsDux    163

Once way of getting rid of this problem is having a storage system like this:

image.thumb.png.59a7060f5200dc6e601589cb9c6c8319.png

 

Which is really just the multiples of the modules that are 4 tiles high and any tiles long:

image.thumb.png.2512e4fee199236fd3b96f61a3ec68ae.png

I store any material that takes up more than a few compactors like this. I think this might be helping with my FPS as there are multiple thousand tons of materials that is now inaccessible to dupes, each material type only has 2 compactors that is accessible, the rest is locked away. 

Priorities:

image.thumb.png.257bf7eb4efba3f3ff1562ed72919407.png

 

Shipping:

image.thumb.png.651a16ba6175bca2cb61801223b800c1.png

 

This isnt revolutionary or even efficient, I just like this over what I do with the regolith (that I plan to use later but for the time I want it inaccessible to my dupes):

image.thumb.png.0ec8a2989deb9f64898e207dfee03dd7.png

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thorstein92    12
7 minutes ago, MorsDux said:

Once way of getting rid of thsi problem is having a storage system like this

Did you ever try to send your CV for Amazon COO?

Nice realistic autostorage :)

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Steve Raptor    210

Have to say that I'm pretty sad to hear that the quantum storage has a performance hit though.

Looking at my already struggling performance-wise 1000+ cycle base..I don't know if it can handle it...

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MorsDux    163
25 minutes ago, Steve Raptor said:

Have to say that I'm pretty sad to hear that the quantum storage has a performance hit though.

Looking at my already struggling performance-wise 1000+ cycle base..I don't know if it can handle it...

Try to quantum store in a way dupes cannot access it - less performance problem

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avc15    416
3 hours ago, Steve Raptor said:

Have to say that I'm pretty sad to hear that the quantum storage has a performance hit though.

I think you misunderstood - the infinite pile is a performance improvement as there are fewer calcs to do. A lot fewer.

How much of an improvement? Well it's kind of a drop in the bucket, but those drops add up.

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BLACKBERREST3    235
5 hours ago, MorsDux said:

This isnt revolutionary or even efficient, I just like this over what I do with the regolith (that I plan to use later but for the time I want it inaccessible to my dupes)

I did the same thing, but with locked pneumatic doors.

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Xuhybrid    259

Recently i've started storing everything in one tile and having a sweep only automatic dispenser. That would solve your issue, no?

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Steve Raptor    210
1 hour ago, Xuhybrid said:

Recently i've started storing everything in one tile and having a sweep only automatic dispenser. That would solve your issue, no?

Yeah but i assigning sweeping commands everytime will probably drive me insane at some point.

I rather have dupes picking stuff up by themselves when they have no other errands.

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mathmanican    2,346
16 minutes ago, Steve Raptor said:

I rather have dupes picking stuff up by themselves when they have no other errands.

Hence the bigger capacity mod (a must have to eliminate this annoyance....). @nakomaru's suggestion is precisely what I do, just install that mod, and forget all the annoyances that come with sweeping. 

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Xuhybrid    259
6 hours ago, Steve Raptor said:

Yeah but i assigning sweeping commands everytime will probably drive me insane at some point.

I rather have dupes picking stuff up by themselves when they have no other errands.

I get you. I was there too at first. However what drove me insane more was carving out huge storage areas all the time. Such a waste of good real estate lol.

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MorsDux    163
5 hours ago, BLACKBERREST3 said:

I pretty much only clean the area where I care about decor. The rest can just go all over the place until I need it, like real life :D

it is efficient as lots of stuff will be closer to build sites as with a centralized storage location would be, and also takes no delivery tasks to leave stuff as is. The problem is end game performance.

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