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LucidFugue

Dealing with too much gas

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LucidFugue    12

I keep running into these annoying circumstances in my bases where I'm generating more oxygen than my dupes are inhaling, the vents go overpressure, the pipes back up, and eventually either clog up or start pushing through a shutoff somewhere if I haven't used a perfect filter design. Often when I'm filtering out a specific gas, like oxygen or hydrogen, the excess has to go "somewhere" and that excess can also eventually either hit an overpressure vent, fill up storage tanks, etc. 

I'll happily build large storage areas for useful gases like hydrogen or nat gas, but PO2, CO2 and Chlorine just wind up getting in the way once I've got enough pressure for the rooms I want filled with them. Short of building an exhaust vent to space what do people do to manage when they have too much of a certain gas?

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Risu    496

PO2 shouldn't be in your base anyways, CO2 can be destroyed in many ways, and Cl can go straight to space. Overpressure vents in a base full of O2 is a good thing. While your electrolyzers are backed up they aren't draining any power or creating excess heat.
 

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Nebbie    298

Oxygen you can stuff in atmo suits and telescopes. Polluted oxygen you should always clean up (one gas per tile causes issues having both). Carbon dioxide you can skim away. Chlorine is a nuisance, but also often disappears from buggy behavior with offgassing replacing it.

Ultimately, you've got to stop producing oxygen or send it to space. The former may involve sending excess water to space.

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cblack    53
Posted (edited)

Use your PO2 to convert sand/regolith to clay, which is extremely useful as it can be turned into ceramic (as long as you have the coal, but usually clay is the limiting factor).

Excess chlorine can be vented to space, but if you don't have any vents providing it, I'd keep some spare around as it's a pain to have to bring it back from space.

CO2 is really useful as it can help you convert H2O to the polluted variant, which is usually far more useful than pure H2O thanks to its increased liquid temperature range and ease of converting it back to H2O.  Polluting enough H2O early game is of the challenges you can face in this game, depending on initial availability (which depends on the biomes you have).

Oh, and last but not least, if you want to store large amounts of a gas, you have a few options.

"Legit" ways:

  • Make a large room, fill it with gas reservoirs, a couple gas pumps, and a high pressure gas vent.  Store the gas in the tanks and the room after you've pumped it down to a vacuum.
  • Condense it to a liquid, and keep it in liquid form.  Heat it back up with whatever mechanism you want when you need it as a gas again.

"Cheese" ways to infinitely or very highly compress:

  • Puddle vent trick
  • Open/close airlocks to infinitely compress it
  • Liquid vent phase change exploit
  • Probably a lot more that I'm forgetting or not aware of.
Edited by cblack
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QuQuasar    680

I have a similar issue, though not with oxygen. Oxygen pipes being backed up is a good thing, it means we have plentiful oxygen.

 

But due to my pathological refusal to either vent potentially useful resources or build an infinite storage system, my Co2 pit just keeps getting deeper and deeper until I get slicksters or build a Co2 freezing chamber. Plus I tend to forget about algae terrarium outposts until the entire area is 10 kg per tile and filled with slimelung. The popped eardrums are reeaaal.

 

I did vent chlorine this time around, though. Screw chlorine.

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LucidFugue    12

I'm just about to get slicksters, though I was not planning on ranching in this game. I'll make an exception for those cute little rays though since they're so useful. 

For PO2 I usually get myself a room of deoderisers but I haven't set that up yet. I'm definitely overproducing Oxygen so I'll cut that back for the time being. Maybe re-locate my electrolysers into a more compact and efficient setup. I got lazy with the build and am paying for it as is standard for ONI. 

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Where you're using Gas Shutoffs for filtering, it can be handy to check that both outputs are empty and if not, put another gas shut-off on the input line to stop filtering until the output lines are clear, if that makes sense.  That, or just use a Gas Filter for simplicity even though it does use more power.

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avc15    406
Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, LucidFugue said:

I keep running into these annoying circumstances in my bases where I'm generating more oxygen than my dupes are inhaling, the vents go overpressure, the pipes back up, and eventually either clog up or start pushing through a shutoff somewhere if I haven't used a perfect filter design.

Design your vents to be backed up.

image.thumb.png.c74d29cc61b362baa09726ee6ac2cc98.png

When I see this, it means I'm generating enough oxygen and spending less energy pumping it (I use an open air oxygen system, pumps and vents just even out pressure in the base)

9 hours ago, LucidFugue said:

 the excess has to go "somewhere" and that excess can also eventually either hit an overpressure vent, fill up storage tanks, etc. 

This is the real problem, when you can't dump the gases you're filtering *out* everything stops working.

You can trick your low pressure vents into continuing to work by putting them either at an interface or outside the layer of your higher pressure gas. Example, here I've got very high O2 pressure so my vent for waste gas has to be set below the O2, in the sour gas which has lower pressure. Well there's also the fact that multiple gases are interfacing down there, so I'm kind of using the same mechanism that an infinite gas storage does, even unintentionally:

image.thumb.png.11dbe0cd5ca31fc87378d8fda7ce5851.png

I suggest deodorizing all PO2 that gets near your main base, also, using something to actively consume CO2 (slicksters, skimmers), same with chlorine (salt vines are easy but there's at least one other option)

... you're not alone, though: the entire top third of my asteroid has become a storage space for extra Hydrogen gas that I just couldn't put into storage fast enough. This problem will correct itself when I ramp up my power use, though.

Mathmanican's suggestion is quite easy to implement. Infinite gas storages are easy to set up. If you're like me and you don't like doing things that seem exploitive, you can also just pump unwanted gases out into space. The vent will never back up. You don't even need exosuits to get this done. Example, my sour gas disposal:

image.png.1b980edf6e040da092a802414f609dce.png

 

Edited by avc15
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bobucles    328

Spacing nasty gases is a great way to avoid spending 100's of cycles trying to manage them. CO2 and Sour Gas are particularly useful gases to feed into the great beyond. Some machines simply make too much CO2 to manage, and Sour Gas takes a very involved custom machine to use. If you can't spare the effort, space it. Spend the time on more important things.

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MorsDux    163

most of the time the solution is just to shut production off. Atmo sensor for electrolizers is perfect. I also pressurize my base to 3-4kg with high pressure vent and gas shutoff. This gives a larger buffer and i can get decent pressures in a large base without setting up vents every 20 blocks. 

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10 hours ago, LucidFugue said:

I'm generating more oxygen than my dupes are inhaling, the vents go overpressure, the pipes back up, and eventually either clog up or start pushing through a shutoff somewhere if I haven't used a perfect filter design.

well I guess you already know the solution which is to build a filter for your electrolyzer if that is what you use for producing O2, here is some spaghetti

20190816175122_1.thumb.jpg.b7908bbcd0ec0c7faa45a584f726654f.jpg

20190816175142_1.thumb.jpg.96cdd80b56455ade65656b0a3731bf81.jpg

2 valves are mechanical filters primed with hydrogen, I use bridge to force O2 overflow from the output back to the input to stop the pump and therefore stop the electrolyzer from producing.

also you can use co2 airlocks for your base exits so you initial base wont be contaminated with another gas except o2.

that is all I can explain, sorry english is not my first language.

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mathmanican    2,290
5 hours ago, avc15 said:

If you're like me and you don't like doing things that seem exploitive

Hmm..........

5 hours ago, avc15 said:

You can trick your low pressure vents into continuing to work by putting them either at an interface or outside the layer of your higher pressure gas.

......

Well I guess we can try to not exploit the mechanics. Or we can realize that ONI is not like our world on purpose and embrace it.

There will always be purists. @LucidFugue Just decide where you stand and enjoy the game. You can stay 100% pure and tell others what "cheese" is, or you can embrace ONI physics and employ it to do your bidding. Anything in between, or even more extreme, is fine.

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avc15    406
Just now, mathmanican said:

Hmm..........

......

Well I guess we can try to not exploit the mechanics. Or we can realize that ONI is not like our world on purpose and embrace it.

It's all about personal aesthetics :)

And yes, I hand wave this away by justifying to myself that it'd work even if there wasn't a gas interface right there.

And then I make it a goal to build something else (like the vent to space pictured above) at the soonest opportunity.

But you DO have a point. This is exactly why I eventually embraced the heat deletion aspect of the sieve, because, we had three choices. (1) use the mechanics the game presented to us (2) go to unreasonable lengths to contrive a situation in which the game mechanics had a totally neutral impact (ie always feeding in exactly 40C pwater) or (3) the mechanics worked against you in a huge way.

 

Please do realize that I also try to never project a judgmental tone about whether one thing vs another is an exploit. I just build the systems that I find interesting. I might point out the exploit sometimes, but it's up to each individual what systems you want to build.

 

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mathmanican    2,290
4 minutes ago, avc15 said:

It's all about personal aesthetics :)

Bingo.

It is tremendously hard to keep track of everyone's personal opinion on what is, or is not, an exploit. So my current motto is, "if you can build it, abuse it." I hope the engineers in the crowd will be happy with this.

Now if something seems completely out of place, then I go on a rampage and become a doomsday prophet (and then add a funeral picture when it dies).

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Loscil2    80
19 hours ago, cblack said:

Condense it to a liquid, and keep it in liquid form.  Heat it back up with whatever mechanism you want when you need it as a gas again.

Isn't freezing to solid a more compact way to store material? Liquid reservoirs occupy 6 tiles and store 5t while storage containers use only 2 tiles while storing 20t. Also smart storage.

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Loscil2    80
5 minutes ago, mathmanican said:

Let's face it. A large portion of ONI players are hoarders. Come on. Own up to it y'all.

Imagine having to store 100t stacks of solidified oxygen.

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cblack    53

While it's true you can store with infinite density if you freeze it solid, it's pretty impractical for some things, e.g. Hydrogen.  Also it takes more energy to he at it back up to a gas, so it ends up being less efficient.  Still, it might be worth it in some cases, depending on what you consider ethical :D.

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Derringer    27
3 hours ago, Loscil2 said:

Imagine having to store 100t stacks of solidified oxygen.

Too Much Oxygen Included.

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KittenIsAGeek    1,156
Posted (edited)
On 8/15/2019 at 6:16 PM, LucidFugue said:

I keep running into these annoying circumstances in my bases where I'm generating more oxygen than my dupes are inhaling, the vents go overpressure, the pipes back up, and eventually either clog up or start pushing through a shutoff somewhere if I haven't used a perfect filter design. Often when I'm filtering out a specific gas, like oxygen or hydrogen, the excess has to go "somewhere" and that excess can also eventually either hit an overpressure vent, fill up storage tanks, etc. 

I'll happily build large storage areas for useful gases like hydrogen or nat gas, but PO2, CO2 and Chlorine just wind up getting in the way once I've got enough pressure for the rooms I want filled with them. Short of building an exhaust vent to space what do people do to manage when they have too much of a certain gas?

There are many ways to deal with this.  

One solution is to design your oxygen production so that it'll shut down when there is no need for oxygen.

Spoiler

image.thumb.png.ee317ed880ff859eecdf906fd7b8bcd1.png

In the spoiler above, if the oxygen pipes back up, the electrolyzers go over-pressure and stop working.  Hydrogen and oxygen never get anywhere they aren't supposed to be and everybody is happy.

... unless you are powering your base off hydrogen and if your electrolyzers shut down then your base loses power.  In which case, you should build a room to store the extra oxygen:

Spoiler

image.thumb.png.31e1a011f79dfb1ab0bdd751121538a9.png

.. or CO2 or hydrogen or chlorine or whatever.  Now everybody's happy again... except Mae, who thinks using a liquid over a vent to create a one-way valve is an exploit.  Thanks Mae. Now we have to build a LOX machine.  Hmm. I don't readily have a screenshot for one of those.... I'm sure someone above me in this thread has one they can link.

Edited by KittenIsAGeek
hydrogen, oxygen, what's the difference?

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LucidFugue    12

Thanks for all the great replies. I'm personally attempting to avoid infinite gas pressure storage, but I did manage to create a nice early game loop. Carbon scrubber at the bottom of my base is now fed from the bathroom sieve water supply excess. Polluted water output goes to my metal refinery coolant tanks. Coolant that gets heated above 90c goes to feed a few reed fiber plants and then into another sieve to convert to fresh water that goes to the electrolysers. I have to add a bunch of extra polluted water because the bathroom loop doesn't create anywhere near enough, but there's no shortage of pwater in the swamp biomes. 

There is a *slight* issue that if I stop refining metal eventually I run out of fresh water for my oxygen production of course, as I haven't found a single steam or water geyser yet. Once I do I'll divert that as a secondary input. I'm averse to feeding my electrolyser cold water so I have the deoxydisers in place if the air pressure starts to go down in the meantime, and a giant lake of cool water to help keep my farms at ideal temperatures. 

The metal refining and reed fibre lets me build atmo suits which are fed hot O2 from the electrolyser, so now I can explore the map in comfort. I've never done the whole "only atmo suits for exploration outside the base" thing but that's how this run is shaping up. 

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Bluefoxfire    21
Posted (edited)

Don't forget that you can also store excess O2 in gas storages somewhere.(I prefer using 1 to 3 total for this) then setting an atmo sensor and a gas shutoff to have it release O2 when it drops below a certain point. This can sometimes allow you to shut off most of your O2 machine sources to save on power and reduce heat buildup.

You can also use said storages to temp store unwanted gases until you're able to transfer them somewhere more suitable. 

Edited by Bluefoxfire

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Sasza22    2,118

When having oxygen overproduction you could farm some dense pufts and store the oxygen as oxylite.

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