Artorias36

Good Steam Turbine / Aquatuner Setup

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Artorias36    9

Hey guys,

 

gotta ask again some help. This time for the steam turbine / aquatuner setup. I never had cooling problems pre launch, but wheeze were nerfed or better saying, they require phosporite and AETN is not present on Verdante maps. I never used the steam cause is really hard to gain positive power output from it but if i want to chill some geyser waters the aquatuner is the way to go and i heard is better to pair it with a steam turbine.

Can anyway post screens of their setup please?

Thanks

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Stabby Joe    22
2 minutes ago, Artorias36 said:

What is the temperature on the 4 thermo liquid sensor?

I currently have mine at 25 degrees. 

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Lifegrow    1,328
Just now, mathmanican said:

Hmmmmmmm. I'm gonna have to shower now. I just lost my +3 morale boost.

It was said tongue in cheek ;) 

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mathmanican    1,896
Just now, Lifegrow said:

It was said tongue in cheek ;)

Of course. It's great to see you back in the forums regularly. I've love reading your stuff since long before I joined the forums. Always listen to Life folks.

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cblack    42
Posted (edited)

Here's my setup.  Note that the plumbing image is slightly older as it was taken before I improved the cooling around the reservoirs, but the topology and the layout of the pipes is the same.

mpeg8k.jpgredcd8.jpg

I'll do my best to explain the piping, so bear with me.  The ATs themselves run a loop that cools the liquid (PW in my case) until it's below the target temperature (I'm using -4C).  Once below that, it kicks it out of the AT loop via the automated valve, and it's then sent one of two places.  For the right AT, it first goes over the turbine to keep the turbine cool enough.  For the left AT, it goes over some tempshift plates to cool the area right below the steam chamber, as that ended up heating up quite a bit.  This can probably be ignored if you have true insulation, but right now I'm stuck with ceramic until I go to space.  If you also lack space-based materials, considering putting a double-thick wall of insulation on the bottom, as I wish I had.  Once each of these have cooled the respective areas of the machine itself, they go out onto the cooling loops (top right for the right AT and the bottom left for the other) where they suck up heat from volcanoes or other things around the base.

Much of the plumbing and dual-reservoir (per AT) design is due to the features I wanted, namely if there is any polluted water above the target temperature, the AT should be operating constantly.  If the PW is below the target temperature, it should be recirculating in the external loop, and over the turbine, until it warms enough that it should be cooled down again.  To accomplish this, I have the returning water sent through a thermo sensor and sorted to the appropriate reservoir (top = hot, i.e. above -4C, bottom = cold).  I also have shutoffs on the hot -> AT cooling loop so that if you want to turn off an AT, it will not leave any PW within pipes inside the steam chamber.  The only downside to this is it can't be turned off immediately, but I made some concessions in order to simplify the piping.

Most of the rest of the complexity comes from other features such as buffering chilled water should your coolant loop break, priority merges/splits, and check valves.  The "bridge" in the game really provides 3 different functions all in one thing: priority-based routing (merge/split), one-way limiting (check valve), and actually bridging.  The reservoirs also do the same, as well as buffering.

I'd show you the automation, but it's not done correctly right now.  I realized I did one thing the wrong way while it was already running, did a quick band-aid fix, and kept it running.  If I shut it down right now, I'm afraid the consequences will be disastrous, so I've no choice but to leave it going til things are more under control and then I can take it out of service to fix it.  However, I will note that all of the sensors you see within the steam chamber are to prevent damage to the ATs from overheating, so don't skimp on them unless you want to run things with some risk.  The thermo sensor can also be used to make sure you run with maximum electrical efficiency, though this may reduce how much heat you can delete depending on how much you're absorbing through your cooling loops.

Oh, and last but not least, the gas pumps are there to provide steam for rockets, or whatever else you might want it for.  Water can be added to the steam chamber via the check valve on the left to replace any lost fueling them.  Also, each AT's cooling loop should never have more than 5t of coolant in it, so only fill one of the two reservoirs for each AT.

Edited by cblack

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ggumdol    2
6 hours ago, Lifegrow said:

have you considered just slapping an aquatuner in one of the many pools of oil you'll often find at the bottom of asteroids. An aquatuner can run for a very, very long time before the oil would start to reach unmanageable temperatures - and whats more, you can cook the oil or put it through refineries and delete the heat it's produced along the way.

I love watching your youtube videos but most of them are slightly overwhelming when it comes to implementing in survival mode. Can you show how to realize these ideas in survival mode in your Youtube channel? In my opinion, you (Lifegrow) and Brothgar are overly focused on fancy or complicated ideas whereas general players want some simple and sustainable examples and to see how they are implemented in survival mode.

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Lifegrow    1,328
12 hours ago, ggumdol said:

I love watching your youtube videos but most of them are slightly overwhelming when it comes to implementing in survival mode. Can you show how to realize these ideas in survival mode in your Youtube channel? 

My Youtube vids normally fall into 2 very separate categories : Proof of concept debug tinkering builds / Mini simple survival builds.

A lot of them are just for showing the concept so that you can go ahead and build your own version of the idea, rather than clone it tile by tile.

Teach a person to fish and you'll be eating fish suppers for life.... P.s. You owe me one fish.

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Artorias36    9
On 14/8/2019 at 10:29 PM, Stabby Joe said:

Here is my build for cooling geyser water. Uses 2kW of power on average. You can just vacuum the valve and liquid shutoff room i realised too 

 

https://youtu.be/AC9_DXCjg5M

I managed to copy it but after 100 cycles one of the pipes broke, not sure how it happened.

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Derringer    18
On 8/14/2019 at 6:13 PM, cblack said:

For the left AT, it goes over some tempshift plates to cool the area right below the steam chamber, as that ended up heating up quite a bit.  This can probably be ignored if you have true insulation, but right now I'm stuck with ceramic until I go to space.

Bridges penetrating insulated tile provide a path for heat to partially bypass the insulation. You've got 3 liquid bridges penetrating the insulated tile forming the floor of the steam chamber from below and one from above, which isn't doing your R-value any favours.

Edited by Derringer

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bobucles    278
43 minutes ago, Derringer said:

Bridges penetrating insulated tile provide a path for heat to partially bypass the insulation.

Indeed. Bridges are a lot like tempshift plates, they interface across all 3 tiles of their shape and do not have a natural insulation bonus. You can see the heat blasting right through the insulated tile and melting the ice.

bridges.jpg

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cblack    42
3 hours ago, Derringer said:

Bridges penetrating insulated tile provide a path for heat to partially bypass the insulation. You've got 3 liquid bridges penetrating the insulated tile forming the floor of the steam chamber from below and one from above, which isn't doing your R-value any favours.

I'm pretty sure bridges are both good and bad.  On the plus side the liquid in the pipe can't interact thermally with anything for one whole tile, as it effectively 'warps' from one end of the bridge to the other.  On the other hand, the bridge itself can transfer heat, like you said.

If you build them out of ceramic or insulation though I don't think it's a huge deal.

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Flydo    150
16 hours ago, bobucles said:

Indeed. Bridges are a lot like tempshift plates, they interface across all 3 tiles of their shape and do not have a natural insulation bonus. You can see the heat blasting right through the insulated tile and melting the ice.

bridges.jpg

Really interesting, don't know how to usethis information to make a interesting system but this can explain some little thing for now

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Derringer    18
19 hours ago, cblack said:

I'm pretty sure bridges are both good and bad.  On the plus side the liquid in the pipe can't interact thermally with anything for one whole tile, as it effectively 'warps' from one end of the bridge to the other.  On the other hand, the bridge itself can transfer heat, like you said.

If you build them out of ceramic or insulation though I don't think it's a huge deal.

Even if a bridge is built out of a low TC material, it doesn't gain the properties of an insulated construction. An insulated construction has 1/100 the TC of a normal one, and the mutual TC at the interface is the minimum TC of materials in contact rather than the log-average.

A bridge that terminates inside an insulated partition, as you've done, bypasses half of the insulated tile effect. The tile's insulated property on the face penetrated by the bridge is effectively bypassed, since heat can be conducted past the interface into the tile by the bridge, while the insulated property on the other faces remains unaffected.

A bridge that completely penetrates an insulated partition, as @Flydo shows, completely bypasses the insulated tile effect since the bridge itself conducts heat through the partition without encountering any insulated interfaces.

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ruhrohraggy    223

Can always keep it simple as well...

Steam turbine...+ Aquatuner...This basic setup is cooling 12 distillers and 3x petrol gens down to ~ -5C using polluted water.

Spoiler

image.thumb.png.6b2b9c43c507be8ab8f0ff86cab9da69.png

To the left of the duper on the ladder is a liquid pipe thermo sensor on the outlet pipe before it leaves the distiller room, set to shut off at -5C or 21F which is 15C above the freezing point of polluted water...(Keeps the pipes from breaking at the outlet of the aquatuner)

Aqua-tuner deletes a flat 14C of temp regardless of specific heat, so p-water is probably your best choice for coolant until supercoolant, unless you need it colder than -20C.

If you add a "liquid pipe thermo sensor" at the section of pipe exiting the area you are cooling (the last bit where it is still getting heat as it is leaving the area back to the aquatuner) and regulate the temps there, you don't have to do anything fancy to keep the aquatuner from freezing your stuff. Just set the sensor at that outlet pipe to shut it [aquatuner] off +14C or so above the freezing point of whatever liquid you're using. In this case it'd be -6C for P-water, or ~ -5C to be safe.

Also for this setup : Using basic igneous rock for insulated tile. I have tons of steel at this point, so I just used some of that for where the hot bits are.

Run a section of cooling pipe through steam turbine room to keep it cold. Use hydrogen for quicker heat transfer. Use refined aluminum for the radiant pipe as well, if you've got some handy, because it's thermal conductivity is on par with thermium. (which is kinda messed up imo)

Probably a few things I could do to improve the efficiency of what's in this screenshot, but to be frank, it's doing what I want it to do for the time being, and I care not. (for now)

 

And piping.

Spoiler

image.thumb.png.5c804bc1e5b920d3318742aa8f3a7746.png

 

Edited by ruhrohraggy

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Lifegrow    1,328
18 minutes ago, ruhrohraggy said:

Probably a few things I could do to improve the efficiency of what's in this screenshot, but to be frank, it's doing what I want it to do for the time being, and I care not. (for now)

Honestly - since the launch upgrade I've had the same sentiments about everything. I think it's got something to do with the knowledge that in the endgame (or once supercoolant / visco / thermium are sourced/farmed) everything will be ripped out and changed :D 

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cblack    42
5 hours ago, Derringer said:

A bridge that terminates inside an insulated partition, as you've done, bypasses half of the insulated tile effect.

That's bizarre, as the tooltips state that the lowest TC between two objects is always supposed to be used for thermal transfer.  I take it that's inaccurate then?  If that's the case, I think I'll look for an insulated bridges mod.

Seems like a bit of an oversight that they were left out, along with quite a few other things.  Lack of insulated airlocks is another strange omission.

Edited by cblack
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FutureJohny    35
5 hours ago, ruhrohraggy said:

 

  Hide contents

image.thumb.png.5c804bc1e5b920d3318742aa8f3a7746.png

 

How did you take the screenshot without the in/out squares? This makes builds with excessive bridges much easier to read.

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cblack    42
1 hour ago, FutureJohny said:

How did you take the screenshot without the in/out squares? This makes builds with excessive bridges much easier to read.

Screenshot mode.  Alt + S is the default to toggle it.

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ruhrohraggy    223
4 hours ago, FutureJohny said:

How did you take the screenshot without the in/out squares? This makes builds with excessive bridges much easier to read.

Alt + S

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