the_revenant

We need to discuss bundling wraps. Again…  

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the_revenant    32
Posted (edited)
48 minutes ago, Pedrito said:

good luck trying to get enough wax pappers in a multiplayer server
bee boxes> bunny farms 

What are we talking about here That wasn't clear to me.

Publics?
Public survival servers barely last long enough to have players killing bee queen.

Or are you talking about any multiplayer server in general? Don't forget that honeycombs are renewable. You get 1-2 honeycombs from bee queen and that is enough, considering how good of an item they are. And she also respawns every 20 days.

Edited by the_revenant

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Pedrito    304
Posted (edited)
Quote

What are we talking about here That wasn't clear for me.

Publics?
Public survival servers barely last long enough to have players killing bee queen.

Or are you talking about any multiplayer server in general? Don't forget that honeycombs are renewable. You get 1-2 honeycombs from bee queen and that is enough, considering how good of an item they are. And she also respawns every 20 days.


in a long term world, wax papper become one of the most valuable items. yes i was talking about a private multiplayer server. making the bundling warp not negate the spoileage would make them useless. A good nerf would be require more ropes to craft a bundling warp, but at the same time would be more tedious to unwarp some food and rebundle it. in conclusion i disagree in nerfing the bundling wrap

and about the bee box , i say that a single bee box can produce more food in one day that a bunny hutch(and is less tedious to do that making bunny men kill themselves)

Edited by Pedrito
quote, plural
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the_revenant    32
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
5
4 minutes ago, Owlrus98 said:

I think a small change would be ok, but nothing too big tbh. This is really only an issue for veteran players who can take out Bee Queen reliably. Most underdog players can barely get to that point, let alone beat her and get the blueprint. I can't really see myself using something that I would not benefit that much from, let alone making the fight less worthwhile in the meantime. I think a good change (if one is needed at all) would be for only perishable items to be stored in them, and have them perish 80-90% slower. Enough so that they can still go stale or rot if you're careless, but good enough to find viable.

[RANT WARNING]

I am (admittedly) known for constantly defending newer players in debates of reworks and new challenges/ obstacles because I get worried for the future of DS and the new players that join in; primarily because of one thing that I have forgotten, and I think many have. The feeling and experience of playing Don't Starve in general. When I was little, I didn't have many friends because of how often my family moved; as a result I found a love for doing stuff on my own. When I heard of "Don't Starve", I thought it was the coolest thing ever. I didn't care about how my base looked, the challenge of enemies and/or mechanics. Frankly..I just had wide-eyed fun whenever something new in the game popped up (like "Hungry for your Hunger or "Underground"), which was surprising to me every single time. I always checked in for that one new super awesome mod on the workshop that changed everything completely! And this went on for years...But as I got older, my priorities changed, and my mentality too; I lost the concept of just having fun no matter what and became obsessed with the concept of "winning". Making better bases, understanding ALL the mechanics, and not "losing". It then became, and still is, no more exciting than a game of say...ranked Overwatch matches. Losing it's glow in my mind, I still play today because I'm still not passed the idea of winning. I understand that my concept of fun is different from the concept of fun for others, and vice versa; but I can't shake that feeling that some other kid or person out there might have the same mentality as I once did, only to either get shot down or lose interest in the game because of their skill level. There's no shortcuts or rainbows from here on out, we have what we have and the most that will change is new stuff being added to it, until one day...People forget about it.  

Sorry for the rant.   

Look, I've been a noob before too, we all have. I know how frustrating it can be. However, with all due respect, I think you are overreacting a little bit here. The game was fine for beginners before bundles and would continue to be if it ever gets reworked,  
I'm having a hard time to understand your point. Can you elaborate more.
I believe it wouldn't affect new players by any means. Newcomers have no idea what Bee Queen is, let alone that she drops a blueprint. By the time they discover this, they are already in the process of trying to learn the fight. And they will die many times. I play fighting games a lot (Street Fighter) and the only way to get good is by losing. There's no other way. You have to endure frustration and persevere. Such is life.

I don't understand why some people here in the forums look down on so-called "veteran players". Like, we've being playing the game for a long time. And there's no way to discover everything in this game. I learn something new every now and then. So I'm not trying to be elitist here. I hope that's clear
Also, I think it's not very smart of Klei to completely ignore a good portion of their player base. . 

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the_revenant    32
 
 
 
 
2
17 minutes ago, Pedrito said:


in a long term world, wax papper become one of the most valuable items.

no it doesnt. klaus says hi.

 

 
 
 
 
2
18 minutes ago, Pedrito said:

and about the bee box , i say that a single bee box can produce more food in one day that a bunny hutch(and is less tedious to do that making bunny men kill themselves)

hm, I disagree again. One bee box doesn't even come close to a bunny farm. 

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Terra_Zina    4,167
12 minutes ago, CossonWool said:
1 hour ago, Zeklo said:
1 hour ago, the_revenant said:

easily the most controversial mechanic currently

Celestial Portal says hi.

Old threads about catapults and volt goat jelly
7uqvuDN.png

One word

Insanity

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Of the points you listed, I think switching Klaus's loot to be wrapped gifts instead of bundled supplies year-round would be the most natural fit, as it would prevent people from getting an infinite supply of bundling wraps. You do have to defeat the Bee Queen several times in order for every player on a large server to be able to use the bundling wrap more than once, but while that's not a trivial task it's not harder than killing Klaus or the Dragonfly. (The Bee Queen does drop honeycombs, and in Endless Mode I think beehives can regenerate, but these are still slower sources than Klaus's bundled supplies and the latter isn't applicable to servers on completely default settings.)

It really is a huge indirect boost for Wolfgang to have an abundant personal supply of items that can keep food preserved indefinitely, but I don't think the Bundling Wrap item itself is the problem; when wax paper and/or bundling wrap blueprints are scarce, it's fine because you need to prioritise what to use it on and possibly funnel it through one of like three players who have the recipe. It only becomes an issue when all the players have a dozen of the dang things each. If Wolfgang can cook up 50 meatballs from ice and monster meat and steadily eat his way through them to stay in mighty form without worrying about spoilage at all because he's keeping them bundled between meals, that kind of is a problem! But the only reason why he can do that is because he has such easy access to bundling wraps that nobody's concerned they might need that wrap for something more important than Wolfgang's appetite.

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the_revenant    32
Posted (edited)
47 minutes ago, CameoAppearance said:

Of the points you listed, I think switching Klaus's loot to be wrapped gifts instead of bundled supplies year-round would be the most natural fit, as it would prevent people from getting an infinite supply of bundling wraps. You do have to defeat the Bee Queen several times in order for every player on a large server to be able to use the bundling wrap more than once, but while that's not a trivial task it's not harder than killing Klaus or the Dragonfly. (The Bee Queen does drop honeycombs, and in Endless Mode I think beehives can regenerate, but these are still slower sources than Klaus's bundled supplies and the latter isn't applicable to servers on completely default settings.)

It really is a huge indirect boost for Wolfgang to have an abundant personal supply of items that can keep food preserved indefinitely, but I don't think the Bundling Wrap item itself is the problem; when wax paper and/or bundling wrap blueprints are scarce, it's fine because you need to prioritise what to use it on and possibly funnel it through one of like three players who have the recipe. It only becomes an issue when all the players have a dozen of the dang things each. If Wolfgang can cook up 50 meatballs from ice and monster meat and steadily eat his way through them to stay in mighty form without worrying about spoilage at all because he's keeping them bundled between meals, that kind of is a problem! But the only reason why he can do that is because he has such easy access to bundling wraps that nobody's concerned they might need that wrap for something more important than Wolfgang's appetite.

You raise some good points. Honestly, I would be satisfied if Klaus is changed and nothing more. Not completely, but almost.

What do you suggest with Wolfgang then? Nerf him somehow? I don't think that would work well. They can nerf his buff via Warly's meals, but that's about it I guess. Nerfing Wolfgang a lot (his base damage or the hunger drain in his basic form, for example) would only make him a less viable option for the average player and also won't affect veterans because anything regarding food/hunger (and also healing) is basically irrelevant as long as bundles are abundant. 

World generation plays a big part on this as well. Some worlds have huge killer bee fields and others barely have any regular bee hive.

Edited by the_revenant
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__IvoCZE__    5,182

Okay let's do the m a t h

Klaus sack drops 4 bundle wraps with a 100% chance - therefore 4 Wax papers BUT Klaus' sack spawns only once a year

Bee Queen drops 1-2 honeycombs - respawns per 20 days ( 3.5something spawns per year in total but we will call it a 3 )

Bee Queen has a 50% chance to drop the 2nd honeycomb, paired with 3 spawns gives us 3-6 honeycombs per year, with 3 honeycombs having 12.5% to drop and 6 honeycombs having 12.5% too

That gives us that Bee Queen has 87.5% chance to drop 4 or more honeycombs per year, rendering her the more hazardous source of honeycombs with bigger potential outcome than Klaus with a fixed outcome, and with Klaus killed, we will have 7 to 10 honeycombs per year.

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the_revenant    32
2 minutes ago, __IvoCZE__ said:

Okay let's do the m a t h

Klaus sack drops 4 bundle wraps with a 100% chance - therefore 4 Wax papers BUT Klaus' sack spawns only once a year

Bee Queen drops 1-2 honeycombs - respawns per 20 days ( 3.5something spawns per year in total but we will call it a 3 )

Bee Queen has a 50% chance to drop the 2nd honeycomb, paired with 3 spawns gives us 3-6 honeycombs per year, with 3 honeycombs having 12.5% to drop and 6 honeycombs having 12.5% too

That gives us that Bee Queen has 87.5% chance to drop 4 or more honeycombs per year, rendering her the more hazardous source of honeycombs with bigger potential outcome than Klaus with a fixed outcome, and with Klaus killed, we will have 7 to 10 honeycombs per year.

I like your post. Putting it in numbers helps a lot. Like I said, removing the bundles from Klaus would balance it a lot already. Also would make killing BQ even more important and the bundling wrap sort of a luxury item.
The only problem is: what about the servers that generate a ridiculous amount of killer bee hives?

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, the_revenant said:

What do you suggest with Wolfgang then? Nerf him somehow? I don't think that would work well. They can nerf his buff via Warly's meals, but that's about it I guess. Nerfing Wolfgang a lot (his base damage or the hunger drain in his basic form, for example) would only make him a less viable option for the average player and also won't affect veterans because anything regarding food/hunger (and also healing) healing is basically irrelevant as long as bundles are present. 

Honestly I have no idea what to do with Wolfgang, balancewise. I think he's 95% fine the way he is, but the remaining 5% is absurd stuff; he was already powerful when at full mightiness with a stack of blowdarts but if you add spicy jelly to that it just gets insane. All I can come up with is lowering his max mightiness damage multiplier and making his damage increase on a curve instead of linearly, which would make his damage output less stupid during boss fights without making him noticeably worse at fighting when he's in between the mighty threshold and his hunger cap (i.e. most other occasions, if you don't have an infinite supply of eternal meatballs).

That could still be a problem for intermediate Wolfgang players, though, who play with a group of people who work together but don't use optimal strategy for everything.

Edited by CameoAppearance

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the_revenant    32
 
 
 
 
2 minutes ago, CameoAppearance said:

making his damage increase on a curve instead of linearly, which would make his damage output less stupid during boss fights without making him noticeably worse at fighting when he's in between the mighty threshold and his hunger cap 

This could work I guess

 

 
 
 
 
3 minutes ago, CameoAppearance said:

 (i.e. most other occasions, if you don't have an infinite supply of eternal meatballs).

.Precisely. The issue with him will persist for as long as the wraps are abundant and relatively easy to get. He can kill Kaus in one winter and get 4 wax papers and from that point on he is in god mode. 

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SinancoTheBest    553

The Klaus idea is cool, I think he should drop Winter's Feast gift wraps, his gifts are already very rewarding, why give wax papers on top? This would help slow down the acquisition of wraps in the server as Honeycombs are only semi-renewable and earlier ones are better spent on Bee Boxes.

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