mathmanican

The Liquid-Gas Bypass - A pump that swaps elements around corners

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nakomaru    1,415
Posted (edited)

A very subtly frustrating and confusing mechanic very simply explained once again. Awesome work!

My first thought was displacer pump, but I like liquid-gas bypass too.

Edited by nakomaru
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Machenoid    96

As long as it doesn't duplicate matter, i'm certain Klei's coders are not screaming... As much.

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Saturnus    3,325
Posted (edited)

The Jebaitor.

EDIT: For those not knowing, jebaiting is an amalgamation of bait-and-switch where you tease with something but actually want something else. In this case you tease with 0.1g of liquid which vanishes but in it's place you make the gas switch places with the teased liquid.

Edited by Saturnus
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mathmanican    2,319
1 minute ago, Machenoid said:

As long as it doesn't duplicate matter

This one I don't consider a bug at all (I'm sure some will disagree).  It appears to be part of the physics engine. I'm surprised it hasn't shown up in the forums yet (as I'm guessing it's been there for years). This one, to me, seems no different than any other one-element-per-tile mechanic, though this one definitely utilizes a gas/liquid interaction.

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Machenoid    96
Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, mathmanican said:

It appears to be part of the physics engine.

Matter teleportation is the main reason why electrolyzers sitting in liquids are able to spawn the hydrogen and oxygen without mixing them. It is unexpected to see matter teleportation elsewhere but it's not really surprising it would be possible.

It's these fun sorts of gimmicks the one-element-per-tile design provides are what makes ONI a joy to play; discover a rule, then bend it, then break it and do crazy things with it. Personally i hope the physics engine never changes to allow more than one element in a tile, otherwise all these neat engineering features it provides will disappear with it.

Edited by Machenoid
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nakomaru    1,415
Posted (edited)

I fully support that sentiment Machenoid.

I don't think tricked electrolyzers are teleporting materials. They output in a 5 tile plus sign, and they cycle through each tile each tick. If it can't output, it doesn't.

Tricking it just gives each element one tile choice. I don't know why that bypasses pressure though. Hmm.

After using debug slow-motion, it seems not really true for the hydrogen. See below.

Edited by nakomaru

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abud    474
1 hour ago, mathmanican said:

While trying to make an infinite liquid storage facility, I forgot one tile.

Ah, I thought infinite liquid storage only need 1 tile gas like this, that's why I confused how you manage to magically discover LGB.

Spoiler

image.png.1ebe188ec787b5e41fa4304c7b131dfa.png

Is this one not going to work anymore for infinite liquid storage room?

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mathmanican    2,319
8 minutes ago, nakomaru said:

I don't think tricked electrolyzers are teleporting materials.

There are ways to overpressurize it without teleporting, and ways to do it with teleporting.

Spoiler

Without 

OSE1.thumb.jpg.fca5b59da35eafbea2a20c939

With

502E4C5B-8006-4F17-A4F5-5E7ADC9413B5.jpe

Notice the top of the cross shaped region is blocked, so the hydrogen has nowhere to appear. It first appears inside the middle of the cross and then ports diagonally upwards to the right (visible by rapidly pause/unpausing). 

 

 

5 minutes ago, abud said:

Is this one not going to work anymore for infinite liquid storage room?

This one works fine. However it requires you use a pump to fill it.  The other one I linked to (or a much smaller version without a geyser attached) can slurp up entire biomes using just downward motion.  You can literally slurp up the entire oil biome in one of them without ever using a pump. 

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nakomaru    1,415
Posted (edited)

@mathmanican Well I'll be. Didn't know about the teleporter one. I'm very surprised it works if it's generating hydrogen directly beside oxygen. (Wait, maybe they are both doing that. Oh my god they do. Why does this work!)

Edited by nakomaru
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mathmanican    2,319
7 minutes ago, abud said:

LGB

Hmmm....  Maybe the Jebaitor is the way to go. :) We'll have to give everyone a day or so to cast their vote. 

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abud    474

I write anything you decided in the title. Because it is long and I'm lazy, I just type LGB

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mathmanican    2,319
1 minute ago, nakomaru said:

I'm very surprised it works

When I build the teleporting one, I never have issues. I've had the non-teleporting one backfire on me before and start putting oxygen in my H2 supply, though that has only happened when I leave BOTH tiles above the electrolyzer open. Somehow a blip of O2 moved upwards and displaced my H2, probably because I had super high pressure O2. I can't reproduce this issue at will, but I do tend to prefer the teleporting build.

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nakomaru    1,415
Posted (edited)

I've also seen it bug out when using oxygen on the bottom layer. I'll try the teleporter next if hydrogen on the bottom also bugs out.

After watching in slow motion it seems that the oxygen is directly output to the oxygen layer, and the hydrogen gives up and forces the liquid aside. Then the liquid immediately flows left and pushes the hydrogen into the hydrogen layer. So I was wrong about both elements going directly to their own layer.

gif.gif.dd306f238f58bbc3d6b6a8c35d48f0c5.gif

Edited by nakomaru
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Mullematsch    219

I feel like I need to pay mathmanican for the amount of cool stuff he keep coming up with. Also the detail in your posts is great, always a pleasure to read. 

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metallichydra    2,244

*looks at notifications

"mathmanican mentioned you in a topic"

*can't wait to see mathmanicans newest exploity fantastic machine, and clicks on the notification

*looks at wall of text

I just can't read this wall of text - so sad - but I guess I have to say something ... so ... its nice ... I guess

of course I can read it

I'm just too lazy

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Saturnus    3,325
5 hours ago, mathmanican said:

Hmmm....  Maybe the Jebaitor is the way to go. :) We'll have to give everyone a day or so to cast their vote. 

You're worried (and rightfully so I may add) that people start calling it the LGB thingie, and pretty soon it'll be abbreviated to just LGBT? :D

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mathmanican    2,319
26 minutes ago, metallichydra said:

I just can't read this wall of text - so sad

Haha.  Well, if all you want to do is expand the spoilers and then read the short one liners, go for it. Maybe I should just show pictures and put all words in spoilers.....

8 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

it'll be abbreviated to just LGBT? :D

You mean the liquid-gas bypass transporter.... :o:cower:

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Loscil2    80

Woah. Awesome. Thanks! As for the name I suggest LCD: Liquid compression diagonally.

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26 minutes ago, Loscil2 said:

Woah. Awesome. Thanks! As for the name I suggest LCD: Liquid compression diagonally.

Make sure to not swap that around though, I think its too soon for a Diagonal Liquid Compressor (or DLC for short).

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Nebbie    298

How fast does this pump compared to a conventional pump? Rather...how well will this work for an airlock design that puts any gases back out to their respective sides without using any power to pump them?

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mathmanican    2,319
13 minutes ago, Nebbie said:

How fast does this pump compared to a conventional pump?

It's a percentage based pump, limited by how rapidly gas expands to fill the vacuum tile created after swapping (about 10-12% per second based on gas type). If you place the pump on a gas source (as done with the vent diagrams above), then it works much faster.

  • If you have large pressures then it completely stomps on a conventional pump, outclassing any fixed rate pump.
  • If you have low pressure, then it works really slowly. 

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Sigma Cypher    64
16 hours ago, mathmanican said:

If I don't want the PO2, then I can just corner build when the pump is done. 

Wait - can you?  If gases can escape diagonally ...you have to corner-build low to high I guess?

This is awesome btw.  Thanks

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mathmanican    2,319
38 minutes ago, Sigma Cypher said:

you have to corner-build low to high I guess

The diagonal movement requires both liquid and water. You can corner build the gasses and delete them after they have been pumped out of your region.  Have fun playing with it.  

On a side note, an electrolyzer build will never see 100% uptime with this.  Since the pump is percentage based (10-12%), and the electrolyzer caps at 2000, then each pump will suck out at most 240g/s. You could surround a single machine with 4 - 6 of these, as done with the cool steam vent or something similar, but at that point you've built a huge monster to try and squeeze out miniscual amounts of gas. Not worth it.

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