mathmanican

The Liquid-Gas Bypass - A pump that swaps elements around corners

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mathmanican    2,318
11 minutes ago, flapee said:

let's upgrade to long distance teleportation

I'm glad someone is enjoying this. There is more to be learned still.

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Sigma Cypher    64

Am I the only noticing that the flow through the valves set to 0.1g/s continue at 10kg/s until the pipe backs up completely?  I don't mind submitting the bug report but I wonder if it's operator error.

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mathmanican    2,318
56 minutes ago, Sigma Cypher said:

Am I the only noticing that the flow through the valves set to 0.1g/s continue at 10kg/s until the pipe backs up completely?

I haven't seen this. Did you give your dupes enough time to toggle the valve?

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Sigma Cypher    64

Never mind I can't reproduce it.  You had me at "slurp up all the germy PO2" so I tried this in my current playthrough, This configuration:wrong.JPG.3fe7f4743b9d81c95bf0ecd30b518f2a.JPG

Doesn't work for two gasses.  O2 gets stuck in the square with the vent and no further exchanges happen except in that square.

But if you remove the tile next to the vent it works:

 right.JPG.012ddef3bc1921994e1db9399afd1bda.JPG

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Yoma_Nosme    417

Kudos for finding out @mathmanican !!!

Please don't take it personally but deep inside I hope this gets fixed...

But again. Thanks for finding out! You rock!

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mathmanican    2,318
3 hours ago, Sigma Cypher said:

But if you remove the tile next to the vent it works:

Nicely done.  This is why I think you can get it to work with two gasses. I'm glad someone is having fun playing (and thanks for sharing). 

On 8/10/2019 at 3:27 AM, mathmanican said:

This will require learning to deal with two gasses (I think you can train the pump with some more shenanigans to work with 2, but not 3, gasses

As a side note, the pump does continue to work without the modification, rather it just starts deleting the oxygen at the same rate you are pumping water in. So if that rate is set at 0.1g/s, then you might have to wait till cycle 20,000 or so before you finish vacuuming out the region (just have @nakomaru play your game). When I notice I have multiple gasses to deal with, I increase the flow rate (up to 10kg if you want), and then just clean up the liquid mess when the region is vacuumed out. 

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DonDegow    50
Posted (edited)

It's a nice one but I didn't quite get what throughtput one can pump with it, from what I understand it scales with your valve setting but it doesn't make sense in my head; if liquid and gas tiles just swap, no matter the mass of each, the whole tile would swap. If you have 20kg per tile gas the 0.1g tile of liquid would pull up 20kg of gas. How can this be dependent on the setting of the valve?

Edit : I understand that the wrong part in my sentence is "no matter the mass of each" so to be clear my question is; When tiles swap, does it pull at a 1:1 mass ratio (1kg liquid swaps with 1kg gas) and what happens to the rest of the mass the tile had (or had not) if this is the case?

Edited by DonDegow

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mathmanican    2,318
5 hours ago, DonDegow said:

If you have 20kg per tile gas the 0.1g tile of liquid would pull up 20kg of gas. How can this be dependent on the setting of the valve?

If you want to use it solely as a gas pump, then you use the 0,1g liquid valve setting and no liquid ever appears below.  If you want to use it as a liquid pump, then forget the vent completely (you have lots of liquid above already) and just make sure air can get to the tile below).  The pump will swap things 1:1.  Be prepared for a massive flood down below as the liquid will drain VERY rapidly. 

The pump does work by swapping tiles. The only thing holding the pump up while working as an upwards going gas pump is the rate of gas expansion. It may actually be faster than 10-12%, as I think the 10-12% is per tick, while this pump works once every 5 ticks (once a second). The bead pump works every other tick (so may be  a tad faster). 

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bobe17    17

Got a very nice uptime on electrolyzer with that amazing pump (only one for each gas).

Don't know if there is gas deletion but i suppose there isn't.

2D01D25BFBF38681EF0A72A1B561D0227C387356

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biopon    226
On 8/11/2019 at 1:35 PM, mathmanican said:

I'm glad someone is enjoying this.

This is an oldish thread and I only found it very recently but I have to agree with @flapee's sentiment: are you kidding me? :) A 0-power, compact replacement to a door pump that also happens to be faster? This is an absolutely huge discovery. Granted it's gas-only and has a limited (but still wide) temperature band, but I've used it to much success in the following scenarios:

- Natgas geyser harvesting into storage

- Pumping out o2 from a pwater->clay farm, and keeping it working at max efficiency

- Harvesting hot steam vent (500C) emissions to be processed by the optimal number of turbines at 100% uptime

- Vacuuming out rooms for big magma-related projects, and now actually vacuuming out the entire asteroid because why the hell not. I love that this is actually safe versus backflow even if your drip stops, unlike the EZ-Bead pump.

The 1000kg limit is not that hard to work with. At least door pumps still have a use and you promote diversity in solutions. :)

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BLACKBERREST3    232
6 minutes ago, biopon said:

This is an oldish thread and I only found it very recently

mathmanican pretty much wrote the entire hydro mechanics section in the uni

8 minutes ago, biopon said:

0-power

The pump isn't 0 power, but you can get 1000x10g pumps for 240W or .24W/gas tile.

There are many applications for this, especially in jump starting waterfalls and reclaiming gasses from rocket exhausts and comets.

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biopon    226
Just now, BLACKBERREST3 said:

The pump isn't 0 power, but you can get 1000x10g pumps for 240W or .24W/gas tile.

With a .1 gram drip it essentially is, once you fill the feeding pipe.

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BLACKBERREST3    232
1 minute ago, biopon said:

With a .1 gram drip it essentially is, once you fill the feeding pipe.

Oh, I meant if you wanted to save the liquid. .1g disappears, while 10g does not. I see what you mean though. In this case it turns into .0024W/tile which is essentially nothing at that point.

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bobe17    17

Sorry, little update. This one was made in survival mode :

F6AADE56F02B1F8327ACE8426CD447DB7F0A3241

 

a bit tricky to prime. Could be better to manually add some hydrogen into the electrolyzer room before starting it. When i load the save, the electrolyzer may get few "max pressure", which explains the 99% on the last 5 cycles (edit: or maybe not ^^).

Edited by bobe17
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KittenIsAGeek    1,195
On 8/10/2019 at 3:27 AM, mathmanican said:

bypass-steamvent.thumb.png.2cea45a4e46e96078ddc12c19096ba83.png

So, I tried this and it works awesome!  There's just ONE little catch that I feel might be useful to others...

One aquatuner running continuously can't keep the steam hot enough to run a turbine..

Spoiler

image.thumb.png.bd29b4eee01b41d90083773415d0671e.png

image.thumb.png.d0c4bfa63993c65b235c863a5a42a820.png

image.thumb.png.d22ea892c598ee727c5c6e7c42a8f688.png

The pump works awesome for allowing the cool steam vent to erupt without going over pressure.  Between eruptions, the chamber drops almost down to a vacuum.  The output from the turbine drops into the "cold" pool which has polluted water circulating through an aquatuner.  

I built everything during dormancy and "primed' the room by emptying some water into the top and running the aquatuner until the steam was at 200c.  It ran beautifully.   .... for about 20 cycles.  At cycle 15 or so, the turbine was operating at 50% power.  A few cycles ago, it got too cold to operate. (I'm not certain why the red thermometer disappeared).  Anyway, the 110c steam from the vent completely overwhelmed the thermal output of the aquatuner to the point that the whole thing shut down.

This is what happens when you think of a good idea and don't run the numbers first.

  1. The aquatuner moves 0.790 x 14c x 10kg DTU/s (110k DTU/s) from the polluted water coolant into the steam chamber.
  2. While erupting, the cool steam vent adds 4890.7g/s of steam at 110c.  The time average during its Active period is 2410.7g/s.  
  3. Since the aquatuner is running continually, we'll use the average emission rate of 2410.7g/s.  Assuming our turbine's operating temperature is 180c, that means we must increase the steam's temperature by 70c.
  4. 0.790 x 70 x 2410.7 = 133.3k DTU/s needed to bring the steam up to temperature.
  5. Therefore, there's an overall loss of 23.3k DTU/s

If I include the dormant period, then the time average eruption rate is 1363.2g/s which brings the totally necessary thermal energy down to 75k DTU.  So.. I'll pipe some hot water into the cooling pool to keep the aquatuner running and hopefully some time during the dormant period the steam will reach operational temperature.  If there's enough steam, perhaps thermal inertia will keep it operating through the next active cycle.

 

Edited by KittenIsAGeek
Deficit of 23k dtu, not 33k.

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karyuendan08    19

offtopic: you guys are aware that you can cool down an almost full reservoir with the same 0.1 packts? using almost 0 power.

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Spoonwood    0

I find it useful to delete chlorine by building on corners and use the same technique can move fluid around without using a pump.

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SirionX    1
On 10/22/2019 at 4:16 PM, karyuendan08 said:

offtopic: you guys are aware that you can cool down an almost full reservoir with the same 0.1 packts? using almost 0 power.

Uh, what? Are you saying the game doesn't average the temperatures correctly by mass when you use small packets? How large is this effect? (does it act as if they're 10kg packets? 1kg?)

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Ambaire    332
On 10/22/2019 at 4:16 PM, karyuendan08 said:

offtopic: you guys are aware that you can cool down an almost full reservoir with the same 0.1 packts? using almost 0 power.

I thought the drip cooling bug was 'fixed'.

 

Every time I think I've seen the last of ONI's wonky physics, a new crazy thing pops up. <insert irreverent comment about ONI's code>

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On 10/23/2019 at 12:16 AM, karyuendan08 said:

offtopic: you guys are aware that you can cool down an almost full reservoir with the same 0.1 packts? using almost 0 power.

Can you explain, please? Or make a post about it?

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