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mathmanican    2,318

For those who want to read more about this topic, here is an article from a few months back on this topic. 

Spoiler

 

 

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Sheo    16
Posted (edited)
On 10.8.2019 at 10:06 AM, Mullematsch said:

Please post both, always like to see different designs.

here it is

Screenshot (59).png

Screenshot (61).png

Screenshot (62).png

Batteries of consumers set to 10% at slow consumption rate (1k) and 25% on faster ones (2k non stop)

At powerplant: left one 5% , right one behind switch depending on overall consumption 10-50%

with 4 big batteries and two logic ones you can store 200k so 10% means you activate generators at 20k left

sometimes theres a bug with automation after building „consumer switcher“. If both batteries are full there should only be one active shutoff (the second one, left from right, like in picture). If the fourth one is also active change the active signal of second batterie (right one) from 10% to 100% while game is running so the shutoff toggles between on/off some times then change to 10% back.

Edited by Sheo
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Mullematsch    219

Okay, so I have a new problem which is really confusing me. Either I have no idea how transformers work or something is behaving weirdly.

 

My design: generators - control unit (just smart batteries with automation to generators) - five transformers - mainline

On the heavy watt wire are only generators and the five transformers. Ignore the glass forge it is not running and even removing it did not change anything. For whatever reason the transformers are causing circuit damage and consuming more than 20kw. I was under the impression the large transformers cap at 4kw. I do seem to be drawing more power than 20kw of the mainline so that might be messing it up?  

why.png.02de6d9e6164bd25cecca231f9568d41.png

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nakomaru    1,387
1 minute ago, Mullematsch said:

I was under the impression the large transformers cap at 4kw. I do seem to be drawing more power than 20kw of the mainline so that might be messing it up?

Are there any consumers on your main line?

Do not put transformers acting as consumers on your main line. Chained transformers can draw 20kW each.

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Mullematsch    219
1 minute ago, nakomaru said:

Are there any consumers on your main line?

Do not put transformers acting as consumers on your main line. Chained transformers can draw 20kW each.

No transformers on mainline.

Generators - control unit  - five transformers - mainline -> battery switch designs...

 

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nakomaru    1,387
Posted (edited)

I don't believe that you aren't chaining transformers. You love transformers. Please share a save if you don't mind.

Edited by nakomaru

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abud    474

That's why in my diagram earlier I put battery switch to prevent transformer look at transformers on generator line.

Use battery switch to prevent transformer chain @Mullematsch

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Mullematsch    219

Excuse the mess, working on it :D

2 minutes ago, abud said:

That's why in my diagram earlier I put battery switch to prevent transformer look at transformers on generator line.

Use battery switch to prevent transformer chain @Mullematsch

I will play around with it. Still not sure why the transformers are being crazy though. 

image.thumb.png.40422fa4786ad3f6523f8dd5aa7c0962.png

I feel like this should not happen. Does seem to be related to the mainline. Either drawing too much power or I messed up a battery switch design. Does happen with the solar panels as well which is just solar panels - batteries - five transformers. Usually not going to the mainline but instead going into the control unit but even changing it, I get the same circuit damage. 

hovel2 .sav

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nakomaru    1,387
Posted (edited)

Chained transformers.

Feeding:

Spoiler

transf1.thumb.png.b98a14308c372836b09e2fa1a120216f.png

Feeding:

Spoiler

source.thumb.png.c1f86b96cbf397aacfeaecb3b8a180f0.png

Draining:

Spoiler

draining.thumb.png.0849ac4cb1a3dc00bc0ddb4f51b94691.png

Try just using one heavy transformer feeding your main line, since it can provide 20kW. Delete 4 of those last ones and you get this.

Spoiler

lastone.thumb.png.35e861b499247f252dcdb61ac94eec0a.png

 

Edited by nakomaru

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abud    474
7 minutes ago, Mullematsch said:

Still not sure why the transformers are being crazy though.

It is a bug. And a bug is crazy since ancient times.

 

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Mullematsch    219
17 minutes ago, nakomaru said:

Chained transformers.

I thought I could "push" the power of the solar bank into the control unit that way. I don't want to charge those batteries if coal, hydrogen etc. turns on.

10 minutes ago, abud said:

It is a bug. And a bug is crazy since ancient times.

Very interesting...

18 minutes ago, nakomaru said:

Try just using one heavy transformer feeding your main line, since it can provide 20kW. Delete 4 of those last ones and you get this.

Very. very interesting:

image.thumb.png.c5e5c61605c0e8a0662ea558c175c921.png

Why do I take damage if I connect the solar bank directly to the mainline: 

https://youtu.be/wnkPrIRKxag

 

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nakomaru    1,387
28 minutes ago, Mullematsch said:

Why do I take damage if I connect the solar bank directly to the mainline

That's a weird one. It happened to me too. I destroyed the heaviwatt bridges and rebuilt them to fix it.

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mathmanican    2,318
On 8/9/2019 at 3:56 PM, flapee said:

do your worst best

Been trying.  Haven't been able to break it, yet. :) 

I did quickly break one that doesn't include the "OR" gate for timing (so a faulty one).  Here is a save that should load with working switches, that immediately stop working. I'll find a bug report to attach this save to.  Took a while to get something reproducible, but this should hopefully give the devs something to examine.

TestingGrounds.sav

Just load the save, examine all the gates (and note that upon load everything is in the "off" state).  The automation wires correctly change, but the power shutoffs get stuck. 

 

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mathmanican    2,318
33 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

Which state do they get stuck in? Open, closed, or either?

These all got stuck in "inactive" state. I do think it is interesting that the correctly working ones have "disabled by automation grid" above "inactive", while the non-working ones have "inactive" above "enabled by automation grid".  The location in the text message flops. On a nonstuck power shutoff, you find "Enabled by Automation Grid" above "active."  Could it be as simple as someone wrote ++var instead of var++ at one point in the code?  A simple order of operation issue is the culprit?

Pictures of all this in the spoiler. 

Spoiler

An inactive power shutoff correctly working.

pso1.thumb.png.8a1051551a1c3b9c5c91c030e9ef951d.png

A stuck power shutoff. Notice that the order of "Inactive" and "Enabled by Automation Grid" is opposite the others. 

pso2.thumb.png.a355aba68ceb659c6138a8b119cf1eb0.png

A correctly working active power shutoff. 

pso3.png.5fa64b412467acd83c830c01002f56e1.png

 

I'd love to hunt this bug down and kill it once and for all. 

I've always been able to get any "stuck" battery switching station back into working status by changing both smart battery toggles to 0%, thus getting a rapidly alternating active/inactive pattern, and then returning the percents to 75/25. 

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mathmanican    2,318
2 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

if the failure is consistently one or the other state

It appears to get stuck in both states. I submitted a bug report that includes links to every other instance of this report I could find. The battery switching ones all have "inactive" status, but people are getting this next to other things as well, and there it gets stuck in "active" status. It is not just a problem with battery swapping. It is true that in every instance of a bugged shutoff, the order of the messages in the tooltip are reversed (state followed by "enabled by" or "disabled by", rather than the state coming second). 

Edited by mathmanican
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mathmanican    2,318

FYI, replacing a direct connection from a smart battery with an OR gate in between (one wire in from smart battery) automatically fixed the broken shutoff. Things started working right off the bat with no other changes.  So @flapee, not only does that design seem to not break, but updating a stuck one to your design fixes a stuck switching station. 

Spoiler

Here is a stuck switching station. 

fixpso2.thumb.png.7967760f04a5b23fb128a93e69a809f1.png

I added a dupe (Catalina), and let her deconstruct the automation wire below the smart battery, and then reconstruct the wire and an OR gate.  I used a dupe to do all the fixing just to make sure it wasn't a debug only fix. 

fixpso1.thumb.png.3896bdc2d6021e4a37d0d692be3d4b9c.png

Switching station instantly resumed operation.  

Of course, with the new 50kw line, maybe this entire discussion is pointless. However, the problem seems to occur in other places as well.  My best guess at this point is that it is a timing issue with smart battery automation, which can be fixed by adding an OR gate leaving the smart battery. I could easily be wrong. 

 

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Lifegrow    1,525
9 minutes ago, mathmanican said:

Of course, with the new 50kw line

Exsqueezemenow? What is this madness you speak of ?

*reads patch notes*

*sighs*

Edited by Lifegrow
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mathmanican    2,318
3 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

I'm afraid in this case you are as demonstrated countless times by @Mullematsch and others.

According to yesterday's post, we have a design from @Mullematsch that does not get stuck (and matches @flapee's), as well as adding an or gate after the smart battery.  Maybe the game update a few months ago that fixed automation timing fixed everything EXCEPT the smart battery? See here. 

FYI, putting the or gate after the smart battery, and then the not gate after the output of the or gate, fixed the design and seemed to not get stuck (didn't try for very long, as I got the original stuck in about 30 seconds). 

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