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Canis

Why Woodie Sucks, and how to Fix him

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Canis    8,938

So, Woodie. The character on everybody's minds. The arguably most interesting concept for a character. I myself am a Woodie main solely because of the Werebeaver mechanic. However, there are two types of Woodie mains in this world: Woodie Mains that will tell you that Woodie is bad, and liars.

Here are Woodie's faults that needs tweaking, in my eyes:

  • He is overshadowed by Maxwell (albeit remedied by Warly in the most recent update)
  • Werebeaver form has too many downsides and risks to warrant intended use.
  • Werebeaver form can't do what it's sole purpose is to do (chop trees) without risking turning back into Woodie.
  • Woodie isn't the best wood-collector in the game, when he very well should be; It's his namesake, after all.

Here are some of the community's ideas on what's wrong with Woodie:

  • Werebeaver isn't that fun, and has no "oomph" to it. (credit: @YouKnowWho)
  • The concept of a cursed being conflicts with his upside of wood-gatherer. (credit: @Brago-sama)
  • The Werebeaver's sanity drain is way too much. (credit: @trinket_4)
  • He can't swim (credit: @Warbucks)
  • Lucy's dialogue is bland. (credit: Several people.)
  • Has to waste time digging up stumps compared to Maxwell. (credit: @WoodieMain45684 (name checks out))


So, gathering from all of these ideas, we can pinpoint Woodie's main, over-arking problem:
The Werebeaver is not fun and is counter-intuitive.


I have some ideas for how to fix them, but first, I have to bring up a few points.
Let's look at Woodie's curse like it's Lycanthropy, aka the Werewolf curse.

What are the common traits that Werewolves are mostly portrayed with?

  • The werewolf form is generally uncontrollable, ie mostly acting based on animal instincts.
  • Lycanthropes are left weakened, debilitated, and dazed after their transformation ends, along with experiencing amnesia.
  • The werewolf form is generally highly resistant to injury. They are weak to silver, but this can be dismissed in Woodie's case.

Now lets take these ideas, and take away the inherently wolf-like abilities, and swap them with beaver-like abilities.

  • Beavers don't really need to attack things, so they aren't built for aggression. The teeth would still be dangerous because they're large and sharp.
  • Beaver tails are large and broad, and make a distinct noise when slapping something (ie water). This is used as a distress signal in nature.

Now, let's take these ideas and run with them. Using the points above, here are some ideas that I have compiled that should also solve many of the Werebeaver's inherent problems.

Spoiler

 

UPSIDES:

  • The Werebeaver now has a very large damage resistance. (I'd say 90%.)
  • Melee attacks (gnawing) now does spear damage (34) to enemies. (easily outclassed late-game, keep in mind.)
  • For treeguards, the Werebeaver gains a 2x DMG modifier, raising it's melee damage to 68, very slightly higher than a Dark Sword.
  • The Werebeaver now has a right-click ability. When used, the Werebeaver raises it's tail, and then slams it down causing a shockwave, uprooting all nearby tree trunks. The wind-up time would be similar to Wagstaff's thumper invention thingy. It also does damage to anything extremely close to the Werebeaver. (34 damage?) Trees that are still standing are unaffected.
  • The sanity meter is outright disabled during the Werebeaver transformation (As Instincts are taking over, and Woodie's conciousness is put into the back seat.)

DOWNSIDES:

  • Woodie is slowed down for 10 seconds after transforming back into a human.
  • Sanity AND hunger is immediately set to 35 after a transformation ends. (5 points above the insanity threshold.) Health is not affected.
  • The map is no longer updated in Werebeaver form.

Misc.:

  • The Transforming animation takes longer, and is more "dramatic", similar to the Werepig animation, or maybe even the merm transformation animation from the Gorge. You can be attacked during this animation.
  • The Reverting animation is also longer and more dramatic; the Werebeaver falls over, and reverts into an unconcious Woodie, who wakes up and sluggishly picks himself off of the ground. Mobs could de-aggro when this animation starts, to avoid a cheap death, and to imply that the Werebeaver "died", similar to Singleplayer.

 

These changes would change the Werebeaver to be suited as a massive tank, with greater proficency in wood-collecting. However, the drawback to this would be that it's combat capabilities are still somewhat lacking, and it now has penalties when transforming back into a human, giving a nod to it's singleplayer mechanics while still being somewhat unique.

Now, we have a solid base for the new Werebeaver. However, some things are still missing, and we haven't even touched Woodie's human form, or Lucy. Lets add some more ideas to make this a complete rework. (ha see what I did there?)

Woodie's other issue besides from the Werebeaver being flat-out bad is that it's counter-intuitive; The Werebeaver can't gnaw trees for a decent amount of time without the risk of transforming into a Weakened Woodie. In addition, Woodie himself can only chop around 4 big trees before he's at risk of becoming a Beaver. 4 trees. To boost this amount he has to eat logs, the very thing he's trying to mass-collect. So, lets bring in some ideas that get rid of these issues.

Spoiler
  • When the Werebeaver transformation starts, the Log meter drains at a rate of 40/minute (from 1.875/minute). Log Meter still rises by gnawing trees and objects.
  • For every minute that Woodie is in Werebeaver form, the Log meter drains at an extra 5/minute. This caps at 80/minute, which is accumilated after a full day.
  • When the Log meter is at 0, the Werebeaver transforms into Woodie, along with applying the new penalties.
  • In Human form, the Log meter behaves like it does in Singleplayer; it starts at 0, and slowly goes back down at a rate of 10/minute. The transformation occurs when the Log meter is full.
  • Woodie can no longer eat logs in human form. (It's funny, but doesn't really have a place for these suggested mechanics.)

With these changes to the Log meter, Woodie would be able to chop trees as both forms without worrying about accidentally transforming. The Werebeaver's Log meter would stay up for the most part as it's chopping down trees, and Woodie has Lucy warning him about reaching the Beaver threshold.

 

Now, with both of these set of changes combined, we have a really good log-collecting machine that can take a good amount of hits, but cant quite dish out the same punishment. Along with the proposed mechanic of slapping it's tail against the ground to cause a trunk-uprooting shockwave, this would put Woodie, as a log-collector, far above Maxwell in terms of practical use. However, there are still a decent amount of changes that can be made, especially towards Lucy, along with QoL and very small changes.

Spoiler
  • Woodie now has 175 max HP. (To compliment him being a gruff woodsman, and to go hand-in-hand with the Werebeaver being built like a concrete wall.)
  • Woodie's skins should have corresponding Werebeaver variations. (Most people view them as bad, so hopefully this can justify some of them.)
  • Lucy should have much more dialogue lines. She could possibly have dynamic lines that trigger during certain events, such as Woodie being low on a certain stat, low on all stats, or is near a certain location.
  • Woodie can throw Lucy like he did in the Forge. However, Lucy does not automatically return to his hand, and instead stays on the ground. (This can open up options such as hunting rabbits and birds, the latter of which Woodie is notorious for hating.)
  • Lucy now does the same damage as an axe. (27.2)
  • The Werebeaver can swim. Klei, come on.


Now, here we have a full character rework. I truthfully believe this would put Woodie in a similar spot power-wise to the other new/reworked characters.

To recap, here is a list of ALL of the proposed changes in one place.

These should fix every single one of Woodie's problems, and put him at a tier where he is a respectable and valuable part of a team composition.

 

The Log Meter's functionality has been changed, and is now more similar to how it works in singleplayer.

  • In human form, the Log Meter starts at 0 and slowly goes back down at a rate of 10/minute. Woodie transforms into the Werebeaver when the meter is full.
  • In the Werebeaver form, the Log meter initially drains at a rate of 40/minute, and gains an extra 5/minute for every minute that Woodie is in Werebeaver form. This effect caps at 80/minute, which is achieved after one day.
  • When the Log meter is fully empty, the Werebeaver reverts into a weakened Woodie.
  •  Woodie can no longer eat logs and other wood-like objects in human form.
  •  In addition, the Sanity Meter is disabled during the Werebeaver transformation.

The Werebeaver (and to an extent, Woodie himself) is now built to take a lot of punishment, but can't exactly give out as much. In addition, it has new tools to help with log-collecting.

  • The Werebeaver has an innate damage resistance of 90%.
  • The Werebeaver's gnaw does 34 damage, similar to a spear. When attacking treeguards, this damage is multiplied by two, raising it to 68, similar to a Dark Sword.
  • The Werebeaver now has a right-click ability. When used, the Werebeaver raises it's tail, and then slams it down causing a shockwave, uprooting all nearby tree trunks. Standing trees and other objects are unaffected.
  • Woodie now has 175 max HP.
  • The animations that Woodie does when transforming to and reverting from a Werebeaver are changed to be longer and more dramatic, to give more "oomph."

Woodie is left weakened after transforming back into human form.

  • His Hunger and Sanity is set to 35. Health is unaffected.
  • Woodie is slowed down for 10 seconds, similar to the effect of being targeted by a gestalt.
  • In addition, Woodie's map will not be updated in Werebeaver form.

Lucy has been given changes to make her more useful.

  • Lucy now does the same damage as an axe.
  • Lucy can now be thrown, similar to the Forge. She doesn't automatically return to Woodie's hand, however.
  • Lucy now has more dialogue in general.

The Werebeaver has been given a few QoL changes.

  • Woodie's skins now have corresponding Werebeaver versions.
  • Woodie can now use more emotes when in Werebeaver form.

The Werebeaver can now swim in the Turn of Tides beta.

  •  If the Werebeaver reverts back into Woodie while in water, Woodie will drown.

 


So, here it is. Of course, I don't expect Klei to follow this to a T, but these new mechanics have been designed to iron out every single one of Woodie's problems, while also making him fun and practical to play. So now, I ask you:

Thoughts?

 

edit: @-Variant here's your pity ping

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Good overall, though I still think it would help Woodie's lumberjack role for him to be able to pick up the wood faster. Picking up logs is probably the longest part of lumberjacking with Woodie. Tied with the whole stump ordeal.

 

 

 

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GenomeSquirrel    482

I’m thinking Woodie’s update has been postponed due to the return of them update because the moon is rooted in modern werewolf lore. I’m hoping moon something will give him better control over the transformation and duration.

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Terra_Zina    4,924

Here's the thing. I feel like, if we go by a lore perspective, the reason Woodie didn't lose sanity, where tankier and overall better in the singleplayer game, was because he didn't know or remember what he is or was doing while in werebeaver form. He had no control.

Since Together is a continuation of the Singleplayer version, all the characters has faced some sort of character development and personal difficulties along the way. Woodie and Willow getting the worst of the ladder, rather then the former. I believe the reason he is losing sanity so quickly is because he knows he's a beaver. He sees what the beaver is doing, but he has little to no control over it. It's like a constant nightmare like Ymir or whatever her name is says in Attack of Titan.

Every rework so far has had the character developing is some way. Winona and Warly coming up and inventing new stuff, Willow coming in terms with certain things and accepting the past. I feel like it'd be counterintuitive to revert the beaver form instead of pushing it foward.

...Perhaps I'm overthinking it...

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Szczuku    8,953
40 minutes ago, Canis said:

The animations that Woodie does when transforming to and reverting from a Werebeaver are changed to be longer and more dramatic, to give more "oomph."

Yes please. I love Wilba's transformation animation. Tbh when it comes to ds/t, I love every character animation that isn't idle/common in other characters.

My idea for transformation:

-To Werebeaver- Woodie tilts back with a shocked look on his face. He bends forward as fur starts growing out of his back, he also grows in size. Woodie tilts back (quickly) and reveals his face with werebeaver's eyes and big teeth. We can see the moustache growing. 80% turned Woodie turns around- we see his tail growing/poping out of his bum. Woodie turns back to the camera as a Werebeaver and roars/howls into the sky.

-Back to Woodie- Werebeaver falls down and as he attemts to get back up his arms shrink into Woodie's. He facepalms onto the ground and starts shrinking. He turns on his side and we can see Woodie's face on Werebeaver's head. He lies on his back and turns into Woodie already in his sleeping animation (the one caused by gestalts).

I don't think you should be able to be attacked durring these animations.

Also...

You didin't talk about full moon, weather effects on Werebeaver or death.

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Canis    8,938
7 minutes ago, Szczuku said:

Yes please. I love Wilba's transformation animation. Tbh when it comes to ds/t, I love every character animation that isn't idle/common in other characters.

My idea for transformation:

-To Werebeaver- Woodie tilts back with a shocked look on his face. He bends forward as fur starts growing out of his back, he also grows in size. Woodie tilts back (quickly) and reveals his face with werebeaver's eyes and big teeth. We can see the moustache growing. 80% turned Woodie turns around- we see his tail growing/poping out of his bum. Woodie turns back to the camera as a Werebeaver and roars/howls into the sky.

-Back to Woodie- Werebeaver falls down and as he attemts to get back up his arms shrink into Woodie's. He facepalms onto the ground and starts shrinking. He turns on his side and we can see Woodie's face on Werebeaver's head. He lies on his back and turns into Woodie already in his sleeping animation (the one caused by gestalts).

I don't think you should be able to be attacked durring these animations.

Also...

You didin't talk about full moon, weather effects on Werebeaver or death.

I like this.

 

Also I didn't talk about those stuff because I don't personally have a problem with their mechanics, and I can't really find anyone else that has a problem with them either.

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Terra_Zina    4,924
2 minutes ago, Canis said:

Also I didn't talk about those stuff because I don't personally have a problem with their mechanics, and I can't really find anyone else that has a problem with them either.

But lets be honest. Werebeaver should be immune to wetness. He's a beaver. Beavers have some type of oil in their fur so they wont get heavy and cold while diving. Woodie sucks at being a beaver!

Also would be mildly cool if beaver could craft but only from a beaver crafting tab and could only build those in the water. Like a dam or something.

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Canis    8,938
1 minute ago, Terra_Zina said:

But lets be honest. Werebeaver should be immune to wetness. He's a beaver. Beavers have some type of oil in their fur so they wont get heavy and cold while diving. Woodie sucks at being a beaver!

Also would be mildly cool if beaver could craft but only from a beaver crafting tab and could only build those in the water. Like a dam or something.

To be honest I dismissed the Werebeaver as practically immune to wetness since it being wet has no real effect on it.

So yeah, the Beaver should be waterproof. You right.

As for a craftable that you can put in the water, Im struggling to find a practical use for something like that.

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blacknight7890    263

What do you think of woodie getting more logs per tree? I always thought that since he's a lumberjack, he should know how to get more usable logs than the other survivors.

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These would definitely make Woodie more appealing to play, especially the right-click tail ability. (Really I think more characters should utilize some kind of ability similar to the Forge)

A small addition that I think would be neat is to expand on the fact that Woodie seems very knowledgeable when it comes to woodwork. As a little decorative bonus Woodie could craft his own tables, chairs and even wooden sculptures, either in the structures tab or a new sawmill station.

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Canis    8,938
37 minutes ago, blacknight7890 said:

What do you think of woodie getting more logs per tree? I always thought that since he's a lumberjack, he should know how to get more usable logs than the other survivors.

Personally, I see how it could boost Woodie's practicality, but is the mechanic really that fun?

 

8 minutes ago, ProfessorAlpaca said:

These would definitely make Woodie more appealing to play, especially the right-click tail ability. (Really I think more characters should utilize some kind of ability similar to the Forge)

A small addition that I think would be neat is to expand on the fact that Woodie seems very knowledgeable when it comes to woodwork. As a little decorative bonus Woodie could craft his own tables, chairs and even wooden sculptures, either in the structures tab or a new sawmill station.

A little special feature such as being the only character able to use logs in order to make already-existing sculptures would be cool. I'd also like a sculpture of the Werebeaver itself, and/or maybe Lucy.

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Chris1448    12,974

Woodie should also hold onto his sanity-from-pinecones perk, especially to help deal with being knocked to 35 sanity post-werebeaver.

However, I feel like his lasting pigman companionship perk should be removed. Personally, I've never seen that perk utilized by anybody, and I don't see much of a place for it in Woodie's character.

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Canis    8,938
12 minutes ago, Chris1448 said:

Woodie should also hold onto his sanity-from-pinecones perk, especially to help deal with being knocked to 35 sanity post-werebeaver.

However, I feel like his lasting pigman companionship perk should be removed. Personally, I've never seen that perk utilized by anybody, and I don't see much of a place for it in Woodie's character.

I completely forget that the companionship perk even exists, and I main Woodie ffs. That goes to show how useless it is.

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Viktor234    2,458
28 minutes ago, Chris1448 said:

Woodie should also hold onto his sanity-from-pinecones perk, especially to help deal with being knocked to 35 sanity post-werebeaver.

Does Woodie really care for his forest? Or does he plant the pinecones just because he's log addictive?

I'd like to see that perk removed too. Wormwood already makes use of it (and he really cares for his plants), and Woodie should rather depend on logs and not on pinecones. Also: Having a Woodie planting evergreens all over the base just because he's insane can sometimes be annoying.

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-Variant    4,793

Mortified I didn't show up here, so sad. :{

Alright... these are genius! I love them! 

If Woodie got perks like what you suggested I might actually consider playing him for longer terms, that sounds awesome.

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Alarsin    843

I think people underestimate Woodie a lot. Let me give you some examples from the problems with Woodie in the OP.

3 hours ago, Canis said:

Here are Woodie's faults that needs tweaking, in my eyes:

  • He is overshadowed by Maxwell (albeit remedied by Warly in the most recent update)
  • Werebeaver form has too many downsides and risks to warrant intended use.
  • Werebeaver form can't do what it's sole purpose is to do (chop trees) without risking turning back into Woodie.
  • Woodie isn't the best wood-collector in the game, when he very well should be; It's his namesake, after all.

1. Woodie's total chopping speed is 4x compared to the other characters. Maxwell would need 3 clones in order to match him AND he'd have to chop himself too. To surpass Woodie, Maxwell would need all 4 chopper clones and he himself would have to dig up the stumps in the meantime. That's 8 nightmare fuel (which isn't much in the late game, but it limits his abilities in the early game), while Woodie can do it anytime for free.

2. The werebeaver form should only be used for chopping. If all you do as a werebeaver is chop trees in a controlled environment, you're not really putting yourself at risk. 

3. Yes it can. Refer to my previous point. Unless you decided it's a good idea to do some log farming while fighting off a horde of spiders, you're not risking.

4. Refer to the 1st point.

That being said, I do think Woodie needs a rework since the beaver gameplay is simply not fun and I do agree with you on most of your points regarding what needs to be changed.

P.S. klei pls don't remove the pine cone sanity gain. Ignore the filthy wormwoods, Woodie had that perk first.

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Canis    8,938
1 hour ago, -Variant said:

Mortified I didn't show up here, so sad. :{

Alright... these are genius! I love them! 

If Woodie got perks like what you suggested I might actually consider playing him for longer terms, that sounds awesome.

fixed

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Axelocke    2,859

Coming from a lad who used to main Woodie since his release in DST, I can happily agree with the proposed changes.

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Canis    8,938
4 minutes ago, Axelocke said:

Coming from a lad who used to main Woodie since his release in DST, I can happily agree with the proposed changes.

Im happy to see that the general reception is "I want this", which is a big foot up from other threads. Glad to see that my all-nighter paid off.

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-Variant    4,793
6 hours ago, Canis said:

edit: @-Variant here's your pity ping

I didn't think you'd do this I'm so happy right now thank-you-so-much.

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Theukon-dos    2,174

ehhhhh, I think it's still a good bit flawed

 

For starters, Wood collecting is an inheritly weak niche. While wood is useful, particularly for megabasing, by the time you're going to need gajillions of it, you're going to be able to run bearger through a few forests to get way more wood than Woodie would ever be able to get in a similar ammount of time. and then even later on you're going to be able to use the forest walker/reanimated skeleton with a shadow thurable to get even more wood. Not only that, but currently, wood gathering is the only thing that woodie brings to the table. Maxwell isn't just seen as an upgrade to him because he has better wood cutting, but rather because he offers more than just being a lumberjack. He also has the best rock gathering in the game, along with the best sanity managment. and then when Wagstaff's inevitably added, He's probably going to bring his thumper with him, which can cut down 120+ trees in about 10 seconds.

 

as for the Werebeaver mode, my biggest concern is that it makes wood farming as human woodie nigh-irrelevent. Healing and sanity foods are super easy, so that's barely a downside long-term, and the ability to keep the wood-Razing beaverzerker up as long as you want (unless I missed something) means that you don't even need to even see lumberjack woodie while wood farming (which again, is outclassed by bearger later on). In addition, While having a proper tank character is nice, they're not really usefull in this game due to most all enemies that you would actually want to tank having a large AOE (deerclops and bearger), or all enemies just change agro way to easally. if you look at the current "tank" characters, Wolfgang, Wigfrid, and WX, both Wolfgang and Wigfrid are combat-based characters, able to dish out just as much punishment as they can take.  and WX, while lacking in the damage department, is a massive ball of stats in general. Werebeaver, presumably, wouldn't be able to heal, making that 90% damage resistance held back by being unable to sustain the health unlike the other tanks.

 

and Finally, Lucy. While you do manage to make her less annoying, something I don't see many people mention at all is that Lucy in general is fairly pointless. She does prevent you from wasting durability on axes, but overall, if you where to remove her from the game, it would only take some very minor tweaks to make Woodie play nearly exactly the same as he does now without her. Making her throwable is definitly a good start, but I think a better idea would be giving her minor clarvoyancy and letting her warn Woodie about danger. Things like when a hunt will result in a surprise, when the world's due for a hound wave or giant attack any day now, if a fire starts nearby, that kind of thing. Perhaps even have her be able to let the player know of other timed events, such as Mactusk respawning, the ancient gateway being activateable again, full/new moons, Misery toadstool and queen bee respawning, and maybe some other things I forget.

 

anyways, those are just my thoughts. do note that I'm a good bit sleep deprived, so I may not be thinking straight. if my Opinion changes when I'm properly awake, I'll let y'all know.

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Canis    8,938
8 minutes ago, Theukon-dos said:

ehhhhh, I think it's still a good bit flawed

 

For starters, Wood collecting is an inheritly weak niche. While wood is useful, particularly for megabasing, by the time you're going to need gajillions of it, you're going to be able to run bearger through a few forests to get way more wood than Woodie would ever be able to get in a similar ammount of time. and then even later on you're going to be able to use the forest walker/reanimated skeleton with a shadow thurable to get even more wood. Not only that, but currently, wood gathering is the only thing that woodie brings to the table. Maxwell isn't just seen as an upgrade to him because he has better wood cutting, but rather because he offers more than just being a lumberjack. He also has the best rock gathering in the game, along with the best sanity managment. and then when Wagstaff's inevitably added, He's probably going to bring his thumper with him, which can cut down 120+ trees in about 10 seconds.

 

as for the Werebeaver mode, my biggest concern is that it makes wood farming as human woodie nigh-irrelevent. Healing and sanity foods are super easy, so that's barely a downside long-term, and the ability to keep the wood-Razing beaverzerker up as long as you want (unless I missed something) means that you don't even need to even see lumberjack woodie while wood farming (which again, is outclassed by bearger later on). In addition, While having a proper tank character is nice, they're not really usefull in this game due to most all enemies that you would actually want to tank having a large AOE (deerclops and bearger), or all enemies just change agro way to easally. if you look at the current "tank" characters, Wolfgang, Wigfrid, and WX, both Wolfgang and Wigfrid are combat-based characters, able to dish out just as much punishment as they can take.  and WX, while lacking in the damage department, is a massive ball of stats in general. Werebeaver, presumably, wouldn't be able to heal, making that 90% damage resistance held back by being unable to sustain the health unlike the other tanks.

 

and Finally, Lucy. While you do manage to make her less annoying, something I don't see many people mention at all is that Lucy in general is fairly pointless. She does prevent you from wasting durability on axes, but overall, if you where to remove her from the game, it would only take some very minor tweaks to make Woodie play nearly exactly the same as he does now without her. Making her throwable is definitly a good start, but I think a better idea would be giving her minor clarvoyancy and letting her warn Woodie about danger. Things like when a hunt will result in a surprise, when the world's due for a hound wave or giant attack any day now, if a fire starts nearby, that kind of thing. Perhaps even have her be able to let the player know of other timed events, such as Mactusk respawning, the ancient gateway being activateable again, full/new moons, Misery toadstool and queen bee respawning, and maybe some other things I forget.

 

anyways, those are just my thoughts. do note that I'm a good bit sleep deprived, so I may not be thinking straight. if my Opinion changes when I'm properly awake, I'll let y'all know.

Im down for Lucy basically acting like a warning system. It'd add a lot more practical use to Lucy outside of being an axe. Now that Im thinking about it more and more, I am SUPER behind this idea. Yes, please.

As for permanently being a Werebeaver and never seeing human Woodie, that's the reason why I proposed the idea of the log meter's drain rate getting larger and larger over time. Instead of some flat-out timer or being limited by sanity, the Werebeaver could theoretically keep chopping trees for days on end, but after 8 minutes (1 day) of being in beaver mode, the log meter drains at an extreme 80/minute, which is slightly faster than when there's a full moon.

As for log-collecting being too much of a niche, that's not exactly something we can change about Woodie. He is a lumberjack, and every single aspect of his character reflects that, so we might as well make him the best at being a lumberjack.

Yes, the Bearger is better at demolishing forests, but keep in mind that, after an entire year, he then only has a *chance* to spawn, along with him being restricted to Autumn. Also, if you get caught with your pants down, Bearger causes an avoidable headache. God forbid he spawns at base.

The Werebeaver being a tank is meant as a way for Woodie to go on a tree-killing rampage, for the most part, unimpeded. If you want to go kill Deerclops or something as the Beaver, sure it's an option, but because the Beaver isn't built for aggression, you're gimping yourself in terms of damage output.

I guess a way to get rid of Woodie being solely a wood-collector, if it's that much of an issue, is to allow the Werebeaver to gnaw boulders in 6 bites. The downside to this would be that gnawing non-wood objects doesn't replenish the Log Meter?

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Frashaw27    342

So a few concerns,

8 hours ago, Canis said:

When the Log meter is fully empty, the Werebeaver reverts into a weakened Woodie.

This is fine, its like single player which is why it works. The problem I see is that there is no "I'd like to go back to Woodie" method/button. The reason why this wasen't a problem was that the log meter was tied to the beavers health, thus meaning you could just take a bunch of damage to revert back, however with health being separate, this means that there is no way to control when you turn back. Sure, you can do a lot as the Werebeaver, but sometimes you have to do stuff that the Werebeaver can't do. So I have a idea. At any time you can press a button when your beaverness is 50% or lower. This will fix the problem of just waiting for the meter to run, thus wasting time, while also not being so that you can just change back when you don't want to be the beaver. It's not perfect, but it would be a nice way to immediately go back.

8 hours ago, Canis said:

The Werebeaver now has a right-click ability. When used, the Werebeaver raises it's tail, and then slams it down causing a shockwave, uprooting all nearby tree trunks. The wind-up time would be similar to Wagstaff's thumper invention thingy. It also does damage to anything extremely close to the Werebeaver.

I like this idea, but I think it needs a few tinkering. 1) Might be obvious, but the recharge time should be about 15 seconds. This would make it sure as it can't be too powerful as a combat tool, but as a stump destumper. 2) The damage should be lessened based on difference (thats how shockwaves work) and would have the ability to remove aggro from enemies. You said yourself that its a distress method for beavers, and the size should make it very loud and would deter them. 3) If the Werebeaver can swim in water, this move could make the tail slam into the water and push all water objects a great distance. This would help other teammate on boats as you could essentially push them with your tail. 4) Maybe a chance to cause a cave in, I admit this might be a little too weird for the idea.

8 hours ago, Canis said:

Woodie is left weakened after transforming back into human form.

Fine, but I will suggest a 15 second buffer from when Woodie wakes up to when the Werebeaver vision is removed. This makes sure that you aren't entirely f**ked by the Darkness.

8 hours ago, Canis said:

The Transforming animation takes longer, and is more "dramatic", similar to the Werepig animation

Well you see, there has to be a compromise between theatrics and fairness. Having too long a animation, you give the enemy to actively attack you, screwing you during certain situations, too short and it will just be the same. A good animation is the one suggested by @Szczuku, but faster. Woodie would look at the fur growing on his hands, turn to see his hunch and tail growing, then turn back and roar. Short, but effective. Now on the death on the other hand is one I think should be a different one. Werebeaver takes a few paces, slows down, and falls on his back and will return to Woodie with all the fur dropping to the ground with the fall. Also short, also to the point. 

8 hours ago, Canis said:

 Woodie can no longer eat logs and other wood-like objects in human form.

Well, I think it should work as exactly as it does now, to allow you to save the trees with for the Werebeaver or just to activate the beaver without trees around. On another note, boards should be more beaverness.

8 hours ago, Canis said:

Lucy

So this is going to be my more ludicrious idea but I think it might just work. Lucy should be upgrade able. Now this idea might be counterintuative as Lucy is a axe, but thats the problem. She is just a axe, she has been rabbit hold into one specific resource, one that can be outsourced by other entities. Making her a multitool would make her more useful as she would have more uses. So at the start Lucy will start as an axe, as she is. As time goes on, you can get new parts for her with crafting recipes requiring the tool wanting to be added, living logs, and nightmare fuel. When the part has been made, it can be hovered over Lucy and thus be added to her. The part would consist of, a pickaxe head, a shovel head, a pickaxe/shovel head, golden axe head (reduced beaverness increase with each tree chopped), moon glass axe head (further increased tree chopping efficiency but can break unlike the others), living log handle (increased beaverness and slight sanity drain but will reduce the rate of treeguards spawning, no tool needed), and a walking cane handle. Through all of this, I noted that the the axe part of Lucy should still be the best part of her, she is a axe first and fur most. While the part given to Lucy will be infinite in durability (except for the glass axe head) but they shouldn't keep the bonus Lucy gives to chopping.  The Multitool also should also be only be able to be used by Woodie, for obvious reasons. The reasons for adding the multitool function is that it makes Woodie more interesting, and it allows you to use Lucy more. Lucy often gets abandoned for items like the Walking cane, but with the new function, she will be used constantly and have the ability to have a tool for something for every situation and a item to make exploration faster and then compiled that ability to one slot. For a few other things, as suggested by @Theukon-dos Lucy should give you a warning, a day in advance about a attack. It would help you prepare, but it would also help by telling you if a boss will spawn that season. Lucy also shouldn't be able to attack, as Woodie loves her. Woodie would like to help her fufill her desire to chop trees, but I don't think Woodie should use her as a weapon as it would be like using a baby to ward off a deerm it just something you would feel very bad about doing. So I think that he should either not be able to attack with Lucy, or should drain sanity with every swing (like 2 every swing to not be harsh but still make sure that she isn't a viable weapon).

Quote

Tweaks

Few tweaks to end this.

-Werebeaver should have 30% speed boost instead of a 10% boost, to keep him as a viable scouter late game, and to not be rendered unless once winter hits.

-Planting Trees should increase the beaverness by 1% for each 5 saplings, because its like feeding a hungry wolf human meat, you just aren't helping matters with this.

-Woodie will now have a 20% chance of sneezing when eating grass, as he is suspected as allergic to it. Sneezing will lose 5 sanity.

-Werebeaver will give Wormwood a massive sanity drain while near them, as he knows what a beaver is and how he hurt their friends.

-Woodie will now have a even longer friend timer and will sometimes employ another one for free, like how Webber will get a group of spiders after taming one.

Overall, I think your ideas are good, but need a bit more explaining and a bit more fleshing out. Thank you for reading, and have a good day.

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ItsPizzaTime    832

So a lot of people are saying that the collecting wood part needs to be sped up, well you know how after a hound wave all the monstermeat is lying around seperated, but when you leave the area and come back the monstermeat somehow neatly organizes into multiple stacks of 2-4? What if Woodie had a perk that allowed harvested items (or just wood) to drop already stacked together? Too powerful?

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