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mathmanican

How to Make Waterfalls of Any Height - The Bead Pump gone wrong

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KittenIsAGeek    1,238
2 hours ago, Yunru said:

I've not had any trouble establishing one in a vacuum.

Also fun fact: Mini-pumps are perfect for 3-high locks:

image.thumb.png.fe6c03ca57bbea33e36b95d501130ab2.png

An interesting discovery: with a gas in the area, it will not form a hanging fluid, it will just bead.

The bead will then vacuum the area, so... Accidentally even better than thought?

image.thumb.png.77c0ede9d49795f6ef592b17b31ef008.png

My experience making them in a live game was that when the water fall forms, if there's any change in the surface next to the falls, it bead up.  For example, transition from air to solid tile, or transition from air to vacuum.

However, once the flow is established, I could build side walls that touched the flows.  When I tried to pump the gas out, anywhere the vacuum formed would bead up, letting gas back in.  However, I could build floor tiles inside, pushing the gas out, then destroy the tiles and leave a vacuum behind.

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Yunru    1,139
1 minute ago, KittenIsAGeek said:

My experience making them in a live game was that when the water fall forms, if there's any change in the surface next to the falls, it bead up.  For example, transition from air to solid tile, or transition from air to vacuum.

However, once the flow is established, I could build side walls that touched the flows.  When I tried to pump the gas out, anywhere the vacuum formed would bead up, letting gas back in.  However, I could build floor tiles inside, pushing the gas out, then destroy the tiles and leave a vacuum behind.

Huh. I didn't find a problem with vacuum to air though, so I slapped on a pair of doors and let the bead do it's thing and vacuum.

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miauly    116

@mathmanican , at a risk of going completely off-topic (i thought it's better to go off-topic than necro some old thread), I would like to add here a note about matter conversion you investigated. You were always claiming that this is a bug people use without knowing. On this weekend I played long enough to build a SPOM setup, and it did not work. I used a small one I got from John's playthrough, and when I have built it in QoL3, it stabilized quickly and easily, without tweaking with gas pressure sensors too much. It also remained stable even when back-pressured on oxygen. Well, this time it did not stabilize at all. I had to add filters. It may be me being sloppy, but it looks like gas motion there has changed and broke the setup. So, you were completely correct that players will use this bug without relying on it specifically and building your matter conversion plant.

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Siromatik    133
2 hours ago, Oozinator said:

Not really new, isn't it?

True. But with all the changes in the code for 2 years (and the upcoming release) it’s good to see whats still works (or not anymore), sort of summary, and if we can find new tricks :)

1 hour ago, miauly said:

it looks like gas motion there has changed

This is what we are talking about in this thread : (still not necro :p )

The way new created gas are moving or removing previous gas on a tile can do this now.
I had to tweak numbers on some sensors but I didnt meet such an huge issue like you.
Overall I think it’s for the best.

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Oozinator    2,411
1 hour ago, Siromatik said:

True. But with all the changes in the code for 2 years (and the upcoming release) it’s good to see whats still works (or not anymore), sort of summary, and if we can find new tricks :)

 

Sure but it was a thing before borg cube, nothing of that is new, even 200g/sec is old like methusalem..
@Yunru could wear the title "Reinventor of the wheel" ^^
tenor.gif.12cd96b577cf4d7a14d088ea56974dfd.gif

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0xFADE    460

What sort of performance hit does this incur?  I want to try having as little piping and whatnot in my next base to try and maintain a playable FPS for as long as possible. 

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mathmanican    2,340
7 hours ago, miauly said:

It may be me being sloppy, but it looks like gas motion there has changed and broke the setup. So, you were completely correct that players will use this bug without relying on it specifically

Thanks for the comments.  Since the update that killed matter conversion, odd other things have been happening with gasses.  I haven't played with it enough to find out all the changes, but some things will be different.  And yes, basically every player who plays longer than 10-20 minutes would have encountered matter conversion without knowing it (though it didn't really make much a difference until you started building things like algae terrariums farms, spoms, etc., and then you didn't realize it was even there (or you did and used it on purpose to your advantage). 

4 hours ago, Oozinator said:

wear the title "Reinventor of the wheel"

Ohh.. I'm almost to 1000, so can I make that mine?

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Oozinator    2,411
Just now, mathmanican said:

You can't pick your forum title till you hit 1000 posts. 

I help you with that!
The tricky part is to stay always on topic, like me!


You can create a "Gratulation for launch ONI Klei best Dever ever" thread to fill the counter .
I kept the idea back, if i meet someone counter poor and help him out with my suggestion.
You could easy comment every post you get in there!
Pro tip: Never ever use multiquote, it's a tool of the devil or similar evil.
My way to heal the world!
Those waterfalls look nice, i remember (methusalem age) someone wanted LED lights, to make a waterfall disco illumination with it.



 

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metallichydra    2,290
27 minutes ago, mathmanican said:

You can't pick your forum title till you hit 1000 posts. 

we are so excited!

31 minutes ago, mathmanican said:

Ohh.. I'm almost to 1000, so can I make that mine?

i have an idea!

in off-topic forum, there is a count to 100-topic

we could go there and count!

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bleeter6    202

Help, I can't get this to work. I've got salt water as the other liquid at 31.5g and set the valve at 200g/s but the water just beads.

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Yunru    1,139
2 minutes ago, bleeter6 said:

Help, I can't get this to work. I've got salt water as the other liquid at 31.5g and set the valve at 200g/s but the water just beads.

In that case it'll bead until the surrounding area's a vacuum.

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bleeter6    202
5 hours ago, Yunru said:

In that case it'll bead until the surrounding area's a vacuum.

So should I give up on it then? I wanted to these waterfalls in lieu of my usual waterlocks.

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mathmanican    2,340
2 hours ago, bleeter6 said:

So should I give up on it then? I wanted to these waterfalls in lieu of my usual waterlocks.

Open a new world, Enable sandbox.  Play with the mechanics till you understand how they work.  Then return to your survival world and build it with confidence. That is seriously my best advice on the topic.

For those who are to "pure" to use sandbox, I am sorry that you will miss out on so many fun features of the game, that you really only discover through testing. 

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Le0n1des    48
1 hour ago, mathmanican said:

For those who are to "pure" to use sandbox

You can always tile up some space and diconstruct diagonally or via waterlock for "easy" vacuum

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mathmanican    2,340
10 hours ago, bleeter6 said:

Help, I can't get this to work.

In the introductory spoilers in the bead pump post, as well as in the comments that follow, you'll find a configuration that gets the waterfall working, even in the presence of gasses ( @Yunru you may find this useful as well). 

5c8aaeadbb83f_Screenshotfrom2019-03-1413

If you only build the single tile left of the waterfall, then the pump automatically starts forming the waterfall. After it's started, you can add the other tiles to seal things off. 

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Darkin Coaled    176
2 hours ago, mathmanican said:

For those who are to "pure" to use sandbox, I am sorry that you will miss out on so many fun features of the game, that you really only discover through testing. 

Yeah, no, you CAN test things in survival, I've done it. I don't even know how debug more works. In fact what you learn from the experience is that it is okay to shred anything if you have the resources to rebuild it, that sunken time is in fact a fallacy and needs to be fought in your head. Open up to the harsh world, embrace it and suffer like you're meant to.

 

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