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mathmanican

How to Make Waterfalls of Any Height - The Bead Pump gone wrong

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Siromatik    126
19 hours ago, mathmanican said:

The 200g/s I set for water is to make sure it doesn't let gas through upon save load.

Okay maybe I was too confident with 110g/s :D
But the lock keeps working after save/reload at 150g/s, tried 3 times to save then reload again, dunno if its enought testing.

19 hours ago, mathmanican said:

Salt water has 35.6g as a viscotiy rating (just checked - so same as water)

Here what i ended with :
Salt Water          30.1
Water                37.6
Ethanol              37.6
Super Coolant    37.6
Oil                     356.7
Petrol                 356.7
In which gas have you done your testing ? This disturb me ahah
Tested values : I did it in 2kg CO2 at 300K, dropping 500kg/liquid 1 tiles away of a single tile.
(I guess the 500kg/liquid is the problem here)

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mathmanican    2,312
3 hours ago, Siromatik said:

Here what i ended with :

That all looks pretty good to me. I didn't see any difference based on gas, but changing the 500kg to 1000kg, or 200kg, or 300kg, etc., seems to slightly chage the results.  So 30-40 is what I get for water (and it's variants), ethanol, supercoolant, and then 300-400, close to 350, for crude and petro. 

When I played with the waterfall a while ago, I seem to remember stopping near 170, and have success on save/load.  Then after playing for a while I scrolled over to my waterfall and found a gas disaster. I increased to 200g/s and didn't see any more problems. 

  • Better to air on the far side if you want to use it for an air lock.
  • If the goal is to just have a pretty waterfall, then the 110 is enough. 

For water, here's what I got.

  • 35ish viscosity
  • 50-80ish - matter conversion (same ratio worked with petro)
  • 90-120ish - min for steady bead pump (off right side) or waterfall (off left side)
  • anything higher maintained steady bead pump or waterfall (though specific configurations on the left side, using solid tiles, can produce a bead pump). 
  • Around 170-200+ kept the waterfall working upon save/load.  There appears to be a single tick hiccup with no liquid being added, so you need about twice as much to make sure that for that one tick you don't loose the waterfall. 

Thanks for testing.  For those who plan to use this as an airlock, make sure you test it yourself with the liquid you want to use, and try several save loads (with various types of gases around). Mixed gas environments mess up the bead pump, but have no effect on a steady waterfall (AFAIK). 

 

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Yunru    1,127

I mean, those are all minimums. Just stick down a pump and be done with it :p

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mathmanican    2,312
7 minutes ago, Rebrait said:

the pacu can swin in the waterfall???

That sounds like a fun experiment. Someone want to test if they will swim up? Probably not since liquid content is under 300kg per tile.

With an escher waterfall we could probably achieve this.

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Rebrait    39
1 minute ago, mathmanican said:

That sounds like a fun experiment. Someone want to test if they will swim up? Probably not since liquid content is under 300kg per tile.

With an escher waterfall we could probably achieve this.

can we increase the liquid valve to 1000g and have the waterfall????

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mathmanican    2,312
1 minute ago, Rebrait said:

can we increase the liquid valve to 1000g and have the waterfall????

Of course. But that won't be enough to make pacus want to swim.

@Yunru, @abud, @Siromatik, Any of you interested in building an escher waterfall version to see if pacus can swim UP the waterfall? I won't have game access most of today?

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abud    474

I don't even know it's called escher waterfall until I read wikipedia a few minutes ago. And how to implement here, I absolutely have no clue.

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Darkin Coaled    176

Pacu will swim (well, sit there in the lower tile when the upper is not stretched up to the ceiling) in accidental waterlocks instead of flopping, don't need 300kg.

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Siromatik    126
5 hours ago, Yunru said:

I mean, those are all minimums. Just stick down a pump and be done with it :p

It's all about OPTIMISATION... but you're right ahah.
Gonna give a try with your save thanks !

3 hours ago, Rebrait said:

the pacu can swin in the waterfall???

Hmmm... !

3 hours ago, mathmanican said:

Of course. But that won't be enough to make pacus want to swim.

@Yunru, @abud, @Siromatik, Any of you interested in building an escher waterfall version to see if pacus can swim UP the waterfall?

I stopped tests at 80kg/s, with different liquids, and even weird setup...

ihG17Ly17l.png.9948c79a2e85946166ff848adf6ee1fd.png

Pacus dont want to stay IN the flow and will fall.
But! he gonna stay there when reaching a floor.

qNrQnEemGB.thumb.png.62d4c5aebdfb82040c481f4247cd1686.png

The only one solution i found was using a liquid with EXTREME viscosity, you know which one ? ;)
And here I ended with the feeling to be Indiana Jones entering a lost secret temple guarded by pyranas I had to pass throught to get thoses stranges falling gods gifts in the middle :

d1iXKl2X52.thumb.gif.5f5c82b73c118065f77e1083cb653d0b.gif

 

@mathmanican Okay thanks for the confirmation and the simple summary on your tests about how many g/s = this.
That difference between simple water and salt one... still concern me, have a simple test to do coming to my mind as I'm answering you ;)

 

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mathmanican    2,312
1 hour ago, Siromatik said:

I stopped tests at 80kg/s,

 

4 hours ago, abud said:

don't even know it's called escher waterfall

The escher waterfall can slurp up any liquid VERY QUICKLY.  Pictures in the spoiler.

Spoiler

naptha.png.80a15d80338760ea9ca3d5ee90b3ad0b.png

5d3ccfe4e626f_Screenshotfrom2019-07-2716-23-12.png.e1cb83bcd5846295c89d88f51a6212c4.png

saltwater.png.addaec4c16a80c2938e393a8ce2cdbe3.png

5d3ccfe77e7c8_Screenshotfrom2019-07-2716-20-13.png.d4095288fd42e3ececa50693787a2fe4.png

water.png.33511cf3b14100c836409ae43f0e2cf3.png

The only problem with getting fish to swim up  is something new I just found.

  • Each liquid has it's own maximum downward flow rate.  You can't increase this, so you can't get enough liquid flowing down to get the fish to swim UP (at least not with one column... gonna try three columns later (already tried 2). 
    • Water and Polluted water is 125kg/s
    • Petro is 50.3kg/s
    • Salt Water is 100kg/s (forgot to keep the number in the pictures.. oops.)
    • Naptha fluctuates between 60 and 70 (was hoping this one would give the win).
    • Ethanol (ran out of time to check.) 

Higher viscosity seems to result in lower maximum downflow.  Interesting mechanics, that I'm sure we can abuse... somehow...

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Siromatik    126
8 minutes ago, mathmanican said:

maximum downward flow rate

This is why I stopped at 80kg/s when using Petro, while seing no change in the flow, I'd given up. Had to switch liquids at that point.

9 minutes ago, mathmanican said:

already tried 2

Same, not a single frame where a Pacu get his pathfinding working.

13 minutes ago, mathmanican said:

(forgot to keep the number in the pictures.. oops.)

Buddy you triggered my OCD there :D

14 minutes ago, mathmanican said:

abuse... somehow...

I BELIEVE IN YOU


On a side note : informations in the pannel are not true at all. They're chilling in any liquids inside their living temperature range.
And you need your waterfall to be 8 tiles high for each Pacu you want in it.
But who cares if they're Glum and Confined right ? Gonna call PETA, care.

5kSSVntDet.png

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mathmanican    2,312

FYI. Magma's downward rate is 232kg. Not that pacus could survive. I'll check the other metals later.

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Sigma Cypher    64

I'm trying to understand the difference between this (setup that guarantees beads) :

BeadPump.JPG.6c0e78be6a05b19253f14e875f909da1.JPG

and the goober generator: Boogers.JPG.bda00cf59f9ffc83fafc1c7368805308.JPG

  They both have the two wall tiles to the left of the liquid stack. :?

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Yunru    1,127
6 minutes ago, Sigma Cypher said:

I'm trying to understand the difference between this (setup that guarantees beads) :

BeadPump.JPG.6c0e78be6a05b19253f14e875f909da1.JPG

and the goober generator: Boogers.JPG.bda00cf59f9ffc83fafc1c7368805308.JPG

  They both have the two wall tiles to the left of the liquid stack. :?

The amount of liquid.

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mathmanican    2,312
24 minutes ago, Sigma Cypher said:

Oh I see:  6-7 times viscosity instead of 2-3 times for the bead pump.  Thanks

This is all napkin estimates. Trial and error may be needed. ;)

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Mojo Filter    18

Could this be used as a heat exchanger?

If the pump at the bottom sent the flow to a liquid shutoff wired to a thermal sensor (set to say 20 or 25 C if you are using water) on the pipe, it could divert liquid to an aquatuner or some other cooling method before sending it back to a liquid storage tank at the top of the waterfall that would act as a buffer to keep the flow going.

Meanwhile, you build a radiant pipe (gas or liquid) so that its contents flow upwards through the waterfall, going past the chilled liquid coming down. The mass of the individual waterfall tiles is not much, but it would be transferring between the radiant pipe and a liquid and it is being constantly renewed.

If it worked, it would effectively be a counter-current heat exchanger.

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mathmanican    2,312
1 hour ago, Mojo Filter said:

Could this be used as a heat exchanger?

Yes it could. I look forward to seeing your design. I'm not sure it will be anywhere near as efficient as others but sounds like fun.

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KittenIsAGeek    1,191

One thing to note: There MUST be a gas on both sides of the water flow.   If there's a vacuum, the water turns back into drops instead of flowing.

Spoiler

image.thumb.png.8361a9df72f2f6e5596f419eb5711b8f.png

After disabling my pump, the flows re-established.  There's about 280g per tile of gas in the middle now.

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KittenIsAGeek    1,191

Actually, it turns out you CAN make a vacuum.  You just can't do it if your pump is too close to the waterfall.  You can build floor tiles after the flow is established to push air out of the gap, then deconstruct them to create your vacuum.

Spoiler

image.png.6858e8f0ebb43eff5de3b9f51b57a8b7.png

 

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Siromatik    126
2 hours ago, KittenIsAGeek said:

There MUST be a gas on both sides of the water flow.

 

35 minutes ago, KittenIsAGeek said:

it turns out you CAN make a vacuum... You can build floor tiles after the flow is established to push air out of the gap...

Two good notes for a regular run (out of sandbox testing I mean) that @mathmanican should add to the OP if you are okay guys.
Third note : With a vacuum, split your bottom liquid in two pools for a good temperature insulation.
 

12 hours ago, Siromatik said:

have a simple test

Mission abort, nothing that much revelant about falling stuffs in different liquids, meh.

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Yunru    1,127

I've not had any trouble establishing one in a vacuum.

Also fun fact: Mini-pumps are perfect for 3-high locks:

image.thumb.png.fe6c03ca57bbea33e36b95d501130ab2.png

An interesting discovery: with a gas in the area, it will not form a hanging fluid, it will just bead.

The bead will then vacuum the area, so... Accidentally even better than thought?

image.thumb.png.77c0ede9d49795f6ef592b17b31ef008.png

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