Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Please be aware that the content of this thread may be outdated and no longer applicable.

Vampyre_by

Late game is grind

Recommended Posts

Vampyre_by    34

After cycle 500 (for my experience) the game is turning into a grind. There is no point for exploring planets after research is completed, there is no sense to send rockets far then 20000 as travel time is too long. And what is left is just sitting and waiting for LOX/LH fabrication and slowly turning your pipes from ceramic to insulation.

Change my mind.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JonnyMonroe    149

yeah I love the game but once you're doing rockets it's basically a glorified screensaver. Once I'm at that point I normally leave the game running in the background and play something faster paced like risk of rain or some such.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
mathmanican    2,341
25 minutes ago, JonnyMonroe said:

something faster paced like risk

I know I'm misquoting you, but "RISK" might be an apt comparison (does anyone pull that out anymore, not the electronic version, but the bored board game version). 

Making fun machines in this crazy world is what I find super enjoyable about ONI. In walks SandBox mode (thank you devs for this mode). I agree that the late game seems like waiting hundreds of cycles to get enough steel to go explore planets and bring back stuff I no longer need. Some people love it though, and I'm happy that the game appeals to so many. I'm guessing that the nerf on planets only providing finitely many resources will cripple some people's fun. If someone wants to extract infinite resources from a planet, I don't see why they should be restricted. I just print my resources in survival games with liquid duplication, matter conversion, and metal cannons, rather than running off to other planets.  

Once we feel like our asteroid is ready for long term sustainability, it would be fun have a quick x100 or x1000 speed or something similar to see if we really did nail it. The current game engine doesn't quite allow for that (maybe Ctrl+U on some super computer would). 

For some, late game is a bore.  For others, it's their favorite part.  If you find it a bore, and haven't yet tried SandBox/Debug, give it a try.  I like to test build contraptions that hopefully will expedite the early/mid game in Sandbox, then I find ways to build them super quick in survival. That's what I find fun.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JonnyMonroe    149
12 minutes ago, mathmanican said:

I know I'm misquoting you, but "RISK" might be an apt comparison (does anyone pull that out anymore, not the electronic version, but the bored board game version). 

Making fun machines in this crazy world is what I find super enjoyable about ONI. In steps SandBox mode (thank you devs for this mode). I agree that the late game seems like waiting hundreds of cycles to get enough steel to go explore planets and bring back stuff I no longer need. Some people love it though, and I'm happy that the game appeals to so many. I'm guessing that the nerf on planets only providing finitely many resources will cripple some people's fun. If someone wants to extract infinite resources from a planet, I don't see why they should be restricted. I just print my resources in survival games with liquid duplication, matter conversion, and metal cannons, rather than running off to other planets.  

Once we feel like our asteroid is ready for long term sustainability, it would be fun have a quick x100 or x1000 speed or something similar to see if we really did nail it. The current game engine doesn't quite allow for that (maybe Ctrl+U on some super computer would). 

For some, late game is a bore.  For others, it's their favorite part.  If you find it a bore, and haven't yet tried SandBox/Debug, give it a try.  I like to test build contraptions that hopefully will expedite the early/mid game in Sandbox, then I find ways to build them super quick in survival. That's what I find fun.  

Risk of rain, Not risk. Different games.

I'm not saying I don't like the slow pacing of the end game. I find it far more relaxing than a difficult early game start when you're having to juggle a bunch of balls and race against finite resources running out. These 2 stages of the game appeal to different things that I seek in this game and I appreciate them both. That, however, doesn't change the fact that the pacing of the game does fall off a cliff at some point and if you still want that frantic gameplay you either dump an ocean into the volcanic biome to create an artificial challenge or you start a new colony.

It might not be fair of OP to say the end game is a grind. Grinding implies you have to be actively repeating a low reward task over a long period. If I have to tab back in every 6 minutes to launch a new rocket or select a care package that's not so much a grind as it is just the game running on rails with no real developments occurring.

Whether or not that's a bad thing I suppose is up to each player to decide. I personally consider that to be the mark of a successful colony. I have finished building my model railway at that point and now I can just sit back and watch it run.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
CannedSmeef    169

When radioactive materials and nuclear power are added into ONI that'll offer a late game challenge to manage.  And a personal request, if the system supports it, I suggest that we allow for wacky mutations to occur on all critters, duplicants, and plants.

This is a dream more than doable reality, but I think it'd be awesome to have a bunch of multi-budded bristle blossoms being harvested by hatch-headed duplicants.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Lurve    374

Late game is about automation and planning.  If you think your base is grindy and boring, save it, leave it running overnight and see what broke in an exciting fashion the next day.  Then reload that save, fix it, and try again.

1 hour ago, Vampyre_by said:

Change my mind.

Has this EVER been said by anyone who is even remotely open to having their mind changed?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Lilalaunekuh    848
2 hours ago, mathmanican said:

Making fun machines in this crazy world is what I find super enjoyable about ONI. In walks SandBox mode (thank you devs for this mode).

I don´t really like the sandbox/debug mode, but I play my late game base(s) like it would be my sandbox ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TLW    56
7 hours ago, CannedSmeef said:

When radioactive materials and nuclear power are added into ONI that'll offer a late game challenge to manage. 

That's what people were saying about rockets.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Le0n1des    48

I'd suggest adding gameplay value to late game by changing the whole aspect of space destinations exploring/excavation. In my opinion, the magical off-screen space action (got to volcano planet - here are your tons of molten magma) does not fit the notion of the game. We already have biomes and features to correspond with the majority of the space bodies...

Using the volcano planet example - upon reaching the destination - create a small world similar to Vulcanea with magma vents and extra volcanoes, and produce some "rocket reached destination" notification, to zoom into the new mini map (time on the mother asteroid is frozen in the meanwhile) and make the player ponder how to pipe the molten goodness into the rocket using limited resources we brought along and anything that we find on the mini map.

An added bonus here is that the traits of the astronauts (dig/build/carry...) will matter once more, and the different space targets will present diverse challenge

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
cpy    280

I like endgame, I like to rebuild large parts of base to optimize with materials I didn't have before. My worst peeve is that lategame lag is insane and rocket travel time is totally stupid bonkers! Give us some heavy cargo rockets that can carry 10x stuff so I don't have to deal with small rocket every damn time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Vampyre_by    34
11 hours ago, Lurve said:

leave it running overnight and see what broke in an exciting fashion the next day.

haha, good idea, but I'm afraid nothing will happen. for 200 cycles only one dupe tried to commit suicide by climbing on bunker door right before meteor shower

12 hours ago, JonnyMonroe said:

Grinding implies you have to be actively repeating a low reward task over a long period.

that's exactly what I feel while farming isoresin. 

2 hours ago, cpy said:

and rocket travel time is totally stupid bonkers! Give us some heavy cargo rockets that can carry 10x stuff so I don't have to deal with small rocket every damn time.

also, currently there is a rare bug when astronauts at some point stop to return to a rocket automatically. And of course it takes some time to notice it

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
nakomaru    1,429
12 hours ago, Lurve said:

Late game is about automation and planning.  If you think your base is grindy and boring, save it, leave it running overnight and see what broke in an exciting fashion the next day.  Then reload that save, fix it, and try again.

This is how I play basically. ONI runs 24/7 at 10x speed. Recently passed cycle 8500 and about ready to enter space travel with 1000t of gold from volcanoes. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dosephshih    44

i think the most enjoyable time is the mid game when you can start to refine oil, build turbine, plant something other than berry, building tube system, sweeper, etc.

Early part of Late game of building steam rocket is also funny as you can discover what you can get in extra.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
tseitsei    43

Late game is more about making your own challenges for yourself. For example automating every bit that can be automated so your dupes can just chill. Or building that huge sour gas boiler to power everything forever and give more free water. Or setting up a stable for those exotic gassy moos. Or growing as many different food items sustainably as possible. It is much more "sandboxy" than early game survival for sure but there are still nice challenges to tackle...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Stoned    15

I love the endgame. How many dupes can live in my base without using exploits? Can I automate everything, all systems work together hand in hand? Can I make a nice, comfortable and pretty home for my poor stranded dupes? 

Once the asteroid is completely conquered (Cycle 2000+) I sit there watching it for hours.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mullematsch    219

I really like late game and I feel like the update has added a lot of content to play around with. I do think space sucks balls though, there is legit no reason to do any of the rocket stuff except for fun.

You need super coolant to easily make liquid oxygen / hydrogen to travel further to get ...?

It's still fun automation rockets though, just wish there would be some great reward at the end of it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
bobucles    341

Anything that involves waiting 30+ cycles for a rocket return trip is a bit of a nope. Fortunately in space, a linear increase in distance is NOT a linear increase in travel time. Shorter distances take longer than expected, and longer distances are faster because space has a very high speed limit.

For example let's take a rocket that accelerates are 4000km/cycle, every cycle. That's a pretty comfy 1.1G from our point of view. A two way trip to a 10000km asteroid takes about 6 cycles. There's 1.5 cycles accelerating, 1.5 cycles decelerating and a repeat on the return trip. A round trip to a 50000km asteroid is roughly 14 cycles, 100000km 20 cycles and 200000km 28 cycles. The main meat is around 10-25 cycles, which may still be a bit on the high side. If rocket navigation increased acceleration by 25% (5000km/cycle^2) then the 28 cycle trip becomes 25 cycles.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BaloneyOs    249

Rocketry is grindy for sure and unfortunately still seems like a pretty one-dimensional farming feature. Rewards are good but ultimately boring because of how little you get per long trip.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Vampyre_by    34
43 minutes ago, bobucles said:

Anything that involves waiting 30+ cycles for a rocket return trip is a bit of a nope

I would agree to wait if amount of rare resource will increase with the distance exponentially. Ok, I will wait for 30 cycles, but bring me then FULL tank of Isoresin/Niobium. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
tseitsei    43
24 minutes ago, Vampyre_by said:

I would agree to wait if amount of rare resource will increase with the distance exponentially. Ok, I will wait for 30 cycles, but bring me then FULL tank of Isoresin/Niobium. 

This would be a good change. I do not know about the exponentially  part but you should get significantly more rewards for going further...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites