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Bigfoot

Winning Deck Archetypes

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Griver84    183

I must be the oddball out when it comes to negotiations. I've been finding a good amount of luck with Hostility decks (Rip Overbear change though). I even upgrade Sal's Instincts into Hostile intentions for the consistent damage and the fact I can still add Influence if i need it. 

As for the battle deck. I tried a combo deck the other night and absolutely mopped the floor with the Shroog. Bleeds are nice and benefit from having allies, but the combo/counter deck I made wants you to be the sole bastion of defense. I think I was gaining 15/20 counter and block a turn with a few cards. Anything with a multi attack just murdered itself.

Still can't wait for the possibility of a compendium so I can really start planning out ideas for decks. I've got certain cards I look for already. But I know I'm probably missing a power combo or two for both Battle & Negotiations.

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Alraiis    2

In general, I do find that Diplomatic strategies in negotiation decks far more effective than Hostile strategies. I will add the disclaimer that I'm not sure if Hostile cards are just farther behind in the design process. Here are my main reasons for consistently going Diplomatic:

-Flatter (from upgraded Sal's Instincts), is a huge payoff for having Influence, especially now that Overbear has been nerfed.

-Big damage through Good Impression, Beguile, or Intrigue.

-Steady Composure gain. With recovery and healing being at a premium, especially at higher Prestige levels, a strategy that minimizes the Resolve damage you take quickly pulls ahead. Less Resolve damage taken means less money spent buying drinks to heal Resolve. A more resilient negotiation deck means you can ask for more money on every job, knowing that your Composure will minimize the risk...if you don't just quickly obliterate the extra money arguments with Flatter. The money you earn then snowballs to make the deck (and your battle deck) even better. Cards like Airtight or the upgrade to Fast Talk that adds 3 Composure can keep an Influence-based deck from taking any lasting damage to the Core Argument. (Being able to last longer and draw out a battle can also allow more upgrades, but the experimental build added fatigue to combat this, which is a feel-bad solution but probably a step in the right direction.)

-Card advantage. I made a deck with two upgraded copies of...Swift Retort, I think? It's the card that improvises two 0-cost cards from the discard pile. It was often going infinite by recycling Pale upgrades to Ergo (0-cost, Improvise a card from the discard pile) and Second Wind (0-cost, gain 1 action per 3 cards in the discard pile). Even without going infinite, repeatedly reusing Solid Points for damage/Influence or 0-cost upgraded Good Intentions was highly effective. Magnetic Charm and Visionary Setup could cycle through the deck quickly to find the right pieces. I don't object to engine decks—it was a lot of fun—but once I had it built, I was skipping virtually any offer of a new card, which I likely would have continued doing even if the later chapters were in.

-And, finally, the secret reason Diplomacy is the way to go is actually NOT a Diplomacy card. It's Scorched Earth. This card is very often an instant finisher if your deck doesn't have any other Hostile cards, even before being upgraded to 3 damage per Expended card. I would strongly recommend a change to this card, perhaps only having it Expend Manipulate cards, which would both tone down its power and make it equally effective in Hostile decks.

This is my personal experience up through Prestige 6. If Hostile is viable and powerful too, then that's great. I just haven't seen it take off in the same way.

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Posted (edited)

Is discard not a category for combat decks? I've been having huge success with discarding the defense cards that heals on discard with the discard ability that gains defense on discard and the card that gives counter when you gain defense. using cards like rummage with slippery to cycle through the deck. 

As for negotiations i am finding diplomacy based decks with solid point and the 3 damage spend an influence to draw cards pretty strong. With scorched earth as a finisher it gets the job done.

Also playing on prestige 6.

 

Edited by TheCoolestFool

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flaminghito    8

I agree with Coolest that Discard seems right up there with Combo or Bleed, but really I think the main takeaway is that Battle decks tend to be pretty fluid. I usually have two themes out of "stack bleed / use combo / discard stuff / turtle and counter / fire off one big turn." I think Sal's Daggers kind of trap people into thinking of that binary instead of drafting more generally, and it doesn't surprise me that "mixed" is the top.

As for negotiation, I actually think Hostility is stronger, but it requires you to be pretty discerning about your card balance since it relies so much on Evoking. So maybe the stats just reflect that difficulty.

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Kevin    879

Are you playing discard in experimental or the main build? There are some new discard-centric cards that are only in experimental so far.

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Currently playing in the main branch. Wasn't aware of the experimental branch guess ill check it out.

 

Also i agree hostility cards are pretty useful but needs more to get going. Most negotiations i find on the harder side are the ones with 4 damage when you use a manipulation card. I have completed prestige 6 with a mixed negotiation deck and it wasn't all that powerful but i had no grafts and additional arguments from being hated and i still managed.

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SoM    27
3 hours ago, Kevin said:

Are you playing discard in experimental or the main build? There are some new discard-centric cards that are only in experimental so far.

Bedlam, Dicard all and draw 5/7, Discard for counter, Discard for 4 health and Windup (4+4 damage) are all in the main build right? Which ones are experiment only?

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0 cost card that does 2 damage and discards a card

an unplayable card that gives you flash blade when discarded. flash blade does damage pierces and draws a card and costs 0

scatter: discard 2 cards. gain 1 power for each card until end of turn

 

 

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SoM    27
24 minutes ago, TheCoolestFool said:

0 cost card that does 2 damage and discards a card

an unplayable card that gives you flash blade when discarded. flash blade does damage pierces and draws a card and costs 0

scatter: discard 2 cards. gain 1 power for each card until end of turn

 

 

Those sound fun. Gonna buy all the items and have a 10 card hand to maximize the advantage. 

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After playing a bunch of the experimental build and completing a bunch of runs on prestige 7 (15+) i'm finding hostility cards a lot better then diplomacy cards. The draw a card when you play a hostility card is very strong while i'm finding menacing air very lackluster. Can usually evoke a couple abrupt remarks first turn and then use second winds the next turn to cycle and get composure where its needed and sometimes end the negotiation. Do all the cards drop in the experimental build? haven't seen setup or solid point once in any of my runs which i think are the back bone of a diplomacy deck.

As for combat decks again i think discard decks are pretty strong but out of the new cards in the experimental build i only find duster useful. Any deck with 2-3 boulder stance can be successful and if you have spikes your unstoppable. Combo seems good but a lot of the cards are not good enough and the ability that gains combo on attack seems necessary.  Never played enough bleed builds to get a good feel for them but there damage out put can be unreal but I've never seen the apply bleed to all enemies card once. The card i find pretty good are the ones that gain defense based on cards played that turn when your playing anything but discard. 

I did make a power deck that was very fun. Used multi-hit cards and a couple combo cards with the above mentioned defense cards. was a lot of fun hitting things for 20 with stab cards that attack twice. Overall enjoying the alpha so far and again all my runs are prestige 7 on the experimental build. 

 

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Alraiis    2

After a few more games, I've definitely gotten the Hostility deck to work and be very powerful, so I'll rescind anything I said about it not coming together. It's real great. Mirrored Caprice firing off every Evoke card in the deck singlehandedly, Dominance stacks and Pale Evil Eyes taking single cards up to absurd damage ranges, Bulldoze drawing cards at an insane rate.... Yeah, it's good stuff. However, I found that generally its advantage lies in dispatching opponents very quickly, but the deck as I've built it doesn't always do so unscathed. That could have been my fault for not putting enough defensive options in, but I would come out of battles having taken a few points of Resolve damage as opposed to being pretty much untouchable in most cases when playing Diplomatic (albeit taking more turns). If the challenge in the game continues to ramp up, through subsequent days or higher Prestige levels, I generally still think it's going to be better to be slow and invincible rather than fast but taking Resolve damage, even if it isn't much.

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BlueOrange    11

Negotiation wise, I started out Diplomatic, then went Hostile, and then Mixed.

There's an early opponent who brought out Escalation and that spooked me into avoiding Hostile cards for a while.  There's a very nice Admiralty card that gives you 'deal 1 damage to a random target per influence'.  Clone that card, build influence, and you get some very nice damage output.  The problem is that Fast Talk isn't great for damage if you compare it with Dominance.

Once you understand how to Dominance, you can do a viable hostile deck.  Even then, I always run Diplomatic Ideas: I really don't see the point of taking 4 damage instead of 2 Dominance, and you get a '2 dominance plus nothing' in Diplomatic Ideas.  I also run Solid Point in a hostile deck - having an Influence argument helps with tanking, and a point of damage without spending an action never hurt anyone.

Overbear (in the current main branch) is awesome, and I'm not surprised to hear that there's a nerf coming.Tall Overbear when your opponent has some weak arguments out can do 15 damage to the core argument.

Combat wise, I've given up on Combo (too many things have to go right to get a payoff, and the payoffs seem weak): I run Discard and Bleed. Hemophile means bleed is a nice no-fuss self-heal. Gain a defense whenever you play a card combines with spines really nastily: I killed way more people with that setup than I ever wanted to, because my counterattacks were more lethal than intended.

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I have had plenty success with mixed negotiation decks but i don't prefer it. Having the extra influence to tank is nice but the battles that matter most are vs those that gain composure on unmitigated damage. Them gaining an extra 2-4 composure to the main argument can be crippling. However the baited argument card can prevent this and that's when i go mixed early on if i find that card. Diplomacy decks are okay but some of the evoke cards are hard to activate early on. Plus the new intimidate battles make diplomacy a real drag.

Anyone use the new bounty hunter card? Personally i don't think its that strong. 2 cost makes it hard to play and react to the situation at the same time and you have to deal 5 resolve damage to it. Have to also destroy it as a finisher as impatience is pretty harsh once its destroyed.

Combat wise i actually enjoy using uppercut to gain power. Then using into the night with adapt and battle scars in the deck. Rummage and slippery to search the deck for what you need. Seeker is a bonus with this strategy but not needed. Muscle bank is crazy strong with this deck but again not needed. Not really using discard for its intended purpose and instead using it to gain power each turn and searching for battle scars. Upgraded stabs that hit twice or multi-hit attack cards are a lot of fun with 10+ power.

I am playing on prestige 7 experimental build.

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pacovf    486

Bounty hunter is definitely not very good right now. Not sure it would be very good even if it cost 1 action, tbh. There are ways to take advantage of the bounties, but at 2 actions, it’s not really worth the effort.

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Yeah i feel like manipulation cards are very weak in general not just bounty hunter. The ones i use frequently are back pedal,planning and the bait 6 argument card. Ergo and second wind are also viable if you can upgrade them quickly. I skip pretty much all the other ones and first chance i get i remove quick thinking from my deck. Would be more interesting if there were some evoke cards to incept bounties that do something to change it up. Even the doubt inceptions just don't do enough damage.

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pacovf    486

I actually think most manipulate cards are perfectly viable (and fun!)... if it weren’t for later days bartenders, who shut them down so hard, you have too much of an incentive not to pick them up. I agree that the doubt cards are just a bit too weak for most encounters. As for quick thinking... I don’t think it’s bad, although some of its options could use a slight buff. I understand wanting to remove it from your deck, though.

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Which manipulation cards are your favorite? Plus what prestige do you play on normally? I play on 7 and they tend to clutter up the deck if i grab to many of them.

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pacovf    486

I got up to 7 on the stable version, I am working my way up on experimental. I agree that you don't want to abuse putting too many manipulate cards into your deck, even without bartenders. Cognitive thinking (+1 card per turn), Ergo, Brainstorm are good if you have a lot of actions or 0-cost cards. Second wind, Non-sequitur, Know-it-all are good if you have a lot of card draw. Segue is nice to keep playing certain key cards, though Ergo does that just as well. Duplicity is always good. I don't know, there's many.

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Yeah I've been trying out more of the manipulation cards and segue and reconsider are better then i initially thought. Haven't played with the changes to doubt but hopefully those cards feel stronger with the buff to white lie.

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Reconsider against Admiralty is mandatory. My favorite is the one which give you next card for free.

Just run a 18 Hostile card 2 Maneuver (3 Def and 6 Def Expand), removed or destroyed everything else… it's a slaughter. 2 or 3 rounds to explode 40 or 50 Resolve, Attack went to 18-24, it was awesome :shock:

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Yeah reconsider is one of my fav cards for admiralty or mixed decks with setup super strong.

I had the stars align and was able to make a bounty hunter deck right from day one on prestige 7. Had bounty hunter upgraded to 0 cost and exploit weakness after 2 missions. It was pretty rng sometimes it would just flat out lose and other times it would pump out 100 damage out of nowhere. Was a terrible deck at negotiating for more money though, was a waste of resolve. Felt i was missing some cards to really make it shine though so who knows maybe it can work.

Strategy was incept bounty, damage it a bit then duplicate it. Use pale evil eyes and flatter for a 1 shot combo. If I had some upgraded setups and reconsiders the consistency of the deck would have been improved by a lot. I had no negotiation grafts though. Takes way to much to get this deck going maybe you should get a choice between the upgraded versions once completing the mission for bounty hunter.

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braincraft    0

The two main negotiation deck archetypes I find myself falling into are Overbear/Erupt and Solid Point/Planning.

With the former, just stack Domination or other sources of damage boosts, then use Overbear, Caprice, and Hostile Instincts to trigger Erupts, maybe some Invective. Mirrored Threaten is amazing if you roll it.

With the latter, get some Solid Points in your deck and use Planning, Visionary Setup, and any other source of draw to cycle them through your deck as fast as possible. You'll have plenty of Influence to burn on cards that use it, like Subtlety.

Combat decks have more variety, but I keep coming back to discard decks. It just feels like you can build a discard deck faster and more safely, since most other strategies require very specific combinations of cards that you can't bet on finding. If you're lucky you'll have Barbstorm and Windup in hand to repeatedly discard.

The most important drops to jump on are Boulder Stance and Kidney Shot. Never pass up on either of those. It's a toss up as to which to take if you somehow get offered both in the same bucket. Spines becomes hilarious if you already have Boulder Stance up. I actually once picked up three Boulder Stances and felt invincible that run.

In pretty much all cases, you want to keep your deck as slim as possible to ensure you get the draws you need as early as possible. Always take self-Destroying upgrades; you want to drop as much of your starting deck as you can. You usually want Expending upgrades to starting cards too, since they slim your deck during the fight.

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Mawx    1
Posted (edited)

After some ungodly amount of playthroughs I finally made it to day 4.   I love the latest patch sooo much!   I had defense causing counters, defense causing combos, spree card on death gain health. 4 combat grafts two for turns, one for adding defense, one for adding combo.   It was so ridiculously awesome!   At one point i think counter hit 45, i only wish I had the counter return health then it would be all over LOL.

I also happened to hit a new hut with a card seller I’ve only seen once but unfortunately I died on that day and she didn’t reappear but that looks like a whole nother amazing avenue to explore.

 

I gotta say I was completely bummed when I heard this was going to be a card game, but as usual Klei has hit all the right notes for me.   I have hundreds of hours into invisible inc, and griflands has hooked me just as hard so far!

 

Amazing job guys can’t wait for more!!!

Mawx 

Edited by Mawx

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