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Lilalaunekuh    850

Just wanted to test ethanol for exo suits and found some minor mistake and other strange stuff:

  • The jet suit dock shows the symbol for a "Filtered Output Pipe" in the liquid pipe overlay. (It should be the symbol for a normal liquid input.)
  • If you produce an atmosuit out of any refined metal it will create a suit with the properties of dirt. But if you produce a jet suit it will have the properties of steel.
  • Juit suits still decrease the bladder stat while wearing them.
  • Jet suits can´t be used again if the station can´t refuel them, even if they still got 24,7kg/25kg petroleum in their tank.

 

 

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goboking    1,566
4 hours ago, nakomaru said:

I don't think it's deeper than real life analogies here. Raw fish and cooked fish is enjoyed by many. Raw meat is enjoyed by few. Because the uncooked stat is very unimportant - you will virtually never consume either raw when you have access to a grill

In a game where dupes happily consume compressed blobs of mud, should we be looking to the real word for cues on what is and isn't palatable?

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40 minutes ago, goboking said:

In a game where dupes happily consume compressed blobs of mud, should we be looking to the real word for cues on what is and isn't palatable?

Well, Haitian Mud Cakes are a thing in the real world...

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5 hours ago, Nitroturtle said:

Just verified this in debug, it's definitely bugged now, though I never tested previously.  You can feed the generator either petro OR ethanol when it's freshly built and it works fine.  If you then feed it the opposite fuel, it will then stop accepting either input until it's rebuilt (or possibly on reload, didn't try that).

Reloading doesn't work either, only destroying and rebuilding.  It appears the generator is keeping a very small amount of whichever fuel in it's internal storage.  When the other fuel is added, it also gets added to the storage but the generator refuses to run on either.  

Besides, they needs better descriptions, like ethanor or petroleum aceptance, same for the Gas Generators. 

Edited by Sebastiangperez
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Bluefoxfire    21
2 hours ago, Maleus M said:

Arbor trees are just useless now. Why put new stuff in game and nerf it so hard to make it useless? It's nonsense!

Because of cheating exploiters who turn it into an easy "I win" button and the ones who blindly follow and abuse it after.

 

EDIT: Seriously though, most things that get nerfed are because they end up part of an I win button.

Edited by Bluefoxfire

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bobucles    356
16 hours ago, Bluefoxfire said:

Because of cheating exploiters who turn it into an easy "I win" button and the ones who blindly follow and abuse it after.

Well I mean. It's only fair that players try to get the most possible utility out of the tools they're given. That's part of testing after all. If the resource output is too great the values can always be tweaked.

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Moonlazer    1

People who claim cheats on a single person platform are being extremely nearsighted...  I understand integrity and balance, but words like that fall on deaf ears because you do not understand the scope of each person's use for the game or the frame of a self sustaining ecosystem and their choice of how to exploit it's uses for an end goal.  We exploit oil for gasoline, diesel, propane, on a regular basis.  Are we cheating at life in the real world we sit in?  If that is your vernacular of choice you have a lot to learn...  Now onto something truly productive....

 

When calculating anything in this game, you must break it down to a per second basis.  This is the unifying static factor that must be weighed upon for all of your calculations.  The tooltips tell us per cycle, per second etc.  To truly see what's under the hood, you can't just let you brain go to mush when you see differences in time and expect others to do the math for you.  Basic math classes.  Simplify the problem when dealing with fractions:  kg/s, kg/cycle, g/s, DTU/s etc.

The Ethanol balance that just came in.  Here's your answers to what this did.

1 tree:
input: polluted water:116.67g/s dirt:16.67g/s power:240w/s until 86 trees (each movement of liquid requirements repriming pipes at 86 or less
output: lumber:550g/s (4.5 cycles at 5 branches per tree at 300kg per branch, 600s per cycle)

1 distillery:
input: lumber:1000g/s power:240w/s
output: ethanol:500g/s polluted dirt:333.33g/s carbon dioxide:166.67g/s heat:4.5kDTU/s

1 petroleum generator:
input: ethanol:2000g/s
output: carbon dioxide:500g/s polluted water:750g/s power:2000w/s heat:20kDTU/s


Ethanol production as the focus (since it is the fuel we need to make this work, we'll normalize this to as close to zero as we can)

Ethanol: 7.27 trees = 4 distilleries = 1 petroleum generator when looking at enthanol as =0= null gain
---Power to maintain: 1200w/s Net gain 800w/s
---Lumber: 400g/s gain from 8 trees (since you grow in whole numbers and 7.27 doesn't work by itself)
---Polluted Water: 933.33g/s to maintain trees--Net loss 183.33g/s
---Carbon dioxide: net gain 1166.67g/s from 1 petroleum generator and 4 distilleries
---Polluted Dirt: 1333g/s from 4 distilleries
---Dirt: 133.33g/s to maintain 8 trees
---Heat: 38k DTU/s

Aquatuner: It can transfer 58.506 DTU/g/s of polluted water (4.179DTU/g*14degrees).  At 10kg/s that's 585.06 KDTU/s while adding 58.51 DTU/s of it's own heat.
Power cost:1.2KW/s
Added to this system: 400w/s overall loss in a closed system, 547.00149 KDTU/s decrease to the ethanol loop if  radiated on the way to feed the trees it's maintaining.  Beware overcooling the ethanol production loop*

Short summary: 
-1.2kg/s polluted dirt positive if composting the dirt to resupply the trees (I thought that was the purpose of the PIPs.  Dirt.. so... this redundancy just made that utility useless...)
-1.166kg/s carbon dioxide positive (ok slicksters are an option, but you're forcing oil gameplay through ethanol use?  That's also counterproductive to what ethanol's purpose was... isn't it?  Getting away from oil???)
-A 19.65% drop in polluted water supply per input/output basis so that the late game trade off can be stored thermal energy to tap into later?  I get the rush into endgame, but with Arboria's main challenge for beginning play: oxygen supply, this just forced Polluted oxygen production to be the mainstream run even moreso because polluted water is even more limited now.  So all of it's usage must go to the top priority it can be used for.  There's no point in sieving it with the little sand you get, and with zero regards to germs/sickness, because the tradeoff of being sick vs being alive is a no brainer...
-Ethanol is a very useless mechanic now except in small quantities as a cooling agent because of it's gas conductivity utility.

I had very, VERY, high hopes for this update, and you guys seemed to have destroyed one of the major components to it entirely.  It was something different that just does not work for anything productive now.  If anything, the goal should have been polluted water null to equal ethanol null.  The other trade offs could work themselves out.  The management between supplying it with a short supply of an already very limited water supply on that map alone  No slime biome, no algae distillation, very little algae at all, very little polluted water except the bathrooms/showers to sieve into water for the electrolyzer, very very little starter sand...  Salt water distillation was the only saving point for water, and oxygen....   On the TREE MAP?????  The map that it makes the most sense to use ethanol on...  I just don't get where you went with this one.  Like the ball was seriously dropped or the change was rushed through and makes zero sense.

The only truly productive way to make use of any of this is to preserve starter trees and have them grow lumber for free* with zero input cost.  Which yes is limited, but very hampering on playstyles.  It no longer feels like a sandbox game when you have to keep things as they spawn in just to survive.  What's the point of growing trees?  Polluted water deletion from the asteroid?  A void to chuck it into as garbage, much like reed plants are.  At least that route gave decor value and atmo suits.  The arboria map doesn't even give you Reed fiber or their plants as an option, except via drecko farms.  The latter is just some observations I'm adding in as an aside.

Also, engineer tuning on power plants was confirmed for some time to not be working.  The bugs forums state as such very clearly, so that excuse isn't viable at the moment.

Edited by Moonlazer
Head transfer calculation error. Missed a decimal spot.
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Nebbie    299
On 7/21/2019 at 2:15 PM, Moonlazer said:

...

The only truly productive way to make use of any of this is to preserve starter trees and have them grow lumber for free* with zero input cost.  Which yes is limited, but very hampering on playstyles.  It no longer feels like a sandbox game when you have to keep things as they spawn in just to survive.  What's the point of growing trees?  Polluted water deletion from the asteroid?  A void to chuck it into as garbage, much like reed plants are.  At least that route gave decor value and atmo suits.  The arboria map doesn't even give you Reed fiber or their plants as an option, except via drecko farms.  The latter is just some observations I'm adding in as an aside.

Also, engineer tuning on power plants was confirmed for some time to not be working.  The bugs forums state as such very clearly, so that excuse isn't viable at the moment.

Well, the idea is to have Pips plant trees. That said, I'm not overly fond of the unreliability of Pips without very precise setups, and overall I think Klei is dropping the ball on plant farming balance. At this point, it feels like mealwood, sleet wheat (which isn't even available on Verdante...), and oxyferns are the only plants really worth bothering to farm, with occasional wheezeworts in mealwood areas (primarily drecko farms). Sure, nosh beans and wettuce bring with them benefits, but do I really need all that morale when I've got a nature reserve and great hall and such going? I'd rather just eat drecko eggs. It's also starting to feel a bit like power systems are becoming a bit too weak in comparison to consumers we need like the gas range, which uses more gas than the natural gas generator while using a huge chunk of the power one generates too!

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